Coronavirus Thread III: The Show Must Not Go On (READ OP)

[Galloism]

Has there been any evidence to prove so?

I think it was fox who reported that one(I am not sure) Trump has mentioned it as well.

This guy offers arguments for it not having escaped from a lab.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/coronaviru ... 5074e53042

Meanwhile, Secretary of State Pompeo says theres enormous evidence from the intelligence community it has.

That’s fresh off the wire.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

Oh what the fuck ever.

My reaction to your fucking posts, How much is the 50 cent army paying you? Think I'm lazy, then don't fucking respond.

I will respond to anything you actually write. I will ignore any link you drop without comment or summary. Deal?

[Novus America]

I don't doubt that Trump won't really punish China. And if Gauth focuses entirely on trump and never talks about China, he kinda is defending the CCP, albeit passively and not actively.

Out of curiosity just what exactly can he do other than declare war or unilaterally declare illegal sanctions? As far as I am aware there is no international law dictating the proper response for an epidemic outbreak that he can call on. So all he could do is act out like a petulant child imposing measures which would frankly make your country look even more like a global d*** than it already is.

And that's another thing. I know you americans think that acting out like a scorned baby and deciding you get to chose right from wrong and "punish" those that disagree makes you look strong. But in reality it just makes you look like a bully. Which is why nobody really wants to be friends with you. Even the rest of OTAN is only really in it to mooch off your military spending.

Friends are not really how international relationships work. What matters is common interests.
And no, the Trade Expansion Act of 1962 legally allows the president to unilaterally impose sanctions.

[Post War America]

Out of curiosity just what exactly can he do other than declare war or unilaterally declare illegal sanctions? As far as I am aware there is no international law dictating the proper response for an epidemic outbreak that he can call on. So all he could do is act out like a petulant child imposing measures which would frankly make your country look even more like a global d*** than it already is.

And that's another thing. I know you americans think that acting out like a scorned baby and deciding you get to chose right from wrong and "punish" those that disagree makes you look strong. But in reality it just makes you look like a bully. Which is why nobody really wants to be friends with you. Even the rest of OTAN is only really in it to mooch off your military spending.

Friends are not really how international relationships work. What matters is common interests.
And no, the Trade Expansion Act of 1962 legally allows the president to unilaterally impose sanctions.

US Law =/= International Law

[The Black Forrest]

"whataboutism" what do you mean?

Give you a good example.

I linked to a news article detailing the five eyes intelligence dossier and its findings about truly incredible levels of CCP fuckery.

I got linked back a ccp propaganda video poking fun at Donald trump being an idiot. Which we all knew.

Oh so when you said "you" you were speaking in general.

As mentioned if this was the first time; I can see your point. They have lied in the past and will do so in the future. Yes; people died because of them. At this juncture of the pandemic; trump is desperate to shift blame. It's what he does.

People want to remind people China lied? Fine. It's almost like people are thinking this bugaboo caught everybody by complete surprise. I doubt that. Even in CTOANs response there was that tweet about where China started locking people in their homes. That wasn't a clue things were bad?

Blaming China and any possible remunerations should be after the impact of covid so it can be properly measured and evidence gathered.

At this point and time; the effort is mainly political.....

[LiberNovusAmericae]

I think it was fox who reported that one(I am not sure) Trump has mentioned it as well.

This guy offers arguments for it not having escaped from a lab.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/coronaviru ... 5074e53042

Meanwhile, Secretary of State Pompeo says theres enormous evidence from the intelligence community it has.

That’s fresh off the wire.

I hope they at least actually present some of that evidence to the public. While I do believe China dropped the ball, I'm skeptical of the laboratory theory.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

I think it was fox who reported that one(I am not sure) Trump has mentioned it as well.

This guy offers arguments for it not having escaped from a lab.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/coronaviru ... 5074e53042

Meanwhile, Secretary of State Pompeo says theres enormous evidence from the intelligence community it has.

That’s fresh off the wire.

And for mine, it's a good thing. If the international partners put enough pressure on China, they will admit that their one-and-only top rated virus lab screwed up. The lab will lose it's P4 rating, some staff will be sacked (or executed) and the debate will move on to what China should have done next.

Maybe China will learn that information is their friend. Bad news is best delivered promptly. And so on.

[Novus America]

Friends are not really how international relationships work. What matters is common interests.
And no, the Trade Expansion Act of 1962 legally allows the president to unilaterally impose sanctions.

US Law =/= International Law

The WTO has a national security exception as well. And the president could unilaterally leave the WTO...

[Thermodolia]

Friends are not really how international relationships work. What matters is common interests.
And no, the Trade Expansion Act of 1962 legally allows the president to unilaterally impose sanctions.

US Law =/= International Law

International law means jackshit to a nation that has nuclear weapons.

[Ifreann]

US Law =/= International Law

International law means jackshit to a nation that has nuclear weapons.

Well, not really.

[Purpelia]

US Law =/= International Law

The WTO has a national security exception as well. And the president could unilaterally leave the WTO...

Do you not see how every reply you make makes america look more and more like a petulant child screaming its lungs out because mommy wouldn't buy it candy before dinner?

Friends are not really how international relationships work. What matters is common interests.
And no, the Trade Expansion Act of 1962 legally allows the president to unilaterally impose sanctions.

It's not about friendship. Especially not between natural economic rivals like the us and China. What it's about is maintaining an air of dignity and generally looking like a serious nation as opposed to a tin pot dictatorship that just happens to have enough weapons to be a superpower.

[Thermodolia]

International law means jackshit to a nation that has nuclear weapons.

Well, not really.

It pretty much does. The only time international law means anything is when said powers can use it against their enemies. India, Pakistan, USA, Israel, China, Russia, and North Korea all regularly violate international law. The only time they care is when they can use it as a bludgeon.

[Thermodolia]

The WTO has a national security exception as well. And the president could unilaterally leave the WTO...

Do you not see how every reply you make makes america look more and more like a petulant child screaming its lungs out because mommy wouldn't buy it candy before dinner?

Friends are not really how international relationships work. What matters is common interests.
And no, the Trade Expansion Act of 1962 legally allows the president to unilaterally impose sanctions.

It's not about friendship. Especially not between natural economic rivals like the us and China. What it's about is maintaining an air of dignity and generally looking like a serious nation as opposed to a tin pot dictatorship that just happens to have enough weapons to be a superpower.

Who gives a fuck? The rest of the nuclear club definitely doesn’t. The UK might be the only one depending on how you rate France.

[Galloism]

The WTO has a national security exception as well. And the president could unilaterally leave the WTO...

Do you not see how every reply you make makes america look more and more like a petulant child screaming its lungs out because mommy wouldn't buy it candy before dinner?

In the context of a nation refusing to consent to an international investigation, and threatening our good buddies the Australians for pushing for one?

Not really no. It’s more like when the bully pushes around the little kid, and a much bigger kid shows up to help.

[The Black Forrest]

I think it was fox who reported that one(I am not sure) Trump has mentioned it as well.

This guy offers arguments for it not having escaped from a lab.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/coronaviru ... 5074e53042

Meanwhile, Secretary of State Pompeo says theres enormous evidence from the intelligence community it has.

That’s fresh off the wire.

I would like to see his enormous evidence.......wait that didn't come out right.......

Even with this article

"Pompeo stopped short of saying the virus was man-made, noting that he agreed with a report by the Office of the Director of National Intelligence that ruled out genetic modification or it having been man-made.

The virus’s origin has become a flash point in the pandemic and ratcheted up tensions between the U.S. and China. President Donald Trump has escalated efforts to attach blame to China as U.S. pandemic deaths pass 66,000."

Is this effort about punishment or shifting blame?

“I’ve seen what the intelligence community has said,” said Pompeo. “I have no reason to believe that they’ve got it wrong.” Pompeo declined to say whether the Chinese intentionally released the virus.

Trump and his aides sharpened their criticism of Beijing last week, demanding answers about the virus’s origin. The president tweeted Friday that some U.S. television networks are “Chinese puppets,” while his super-political action committee unleashed anti-China ads.


Donald J. Trump
✔
@realDonaldTrump
Concast (@NBCNews) and Fake News @CNN are going out of their way to say GREAT things about China. They are Chinese puppets who want to do business there. They use USA airwaves to help China. The Enemy of the People!

148K
8:27 AM - May 1, 2020
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“China behaved like authoritarian regimes do, attempted to conceal and hide and confuse,” Pompeo said on ABC. “It employed the World Health Organization as a tool to do the same.”

Sounds like an effort to shift blame.

The secretary said China continued to block access by health experts from the WHO, as well as U.S. scientists, from getting access to samples of the virus needed for study.

This one did make me pause. With all the bad mouthing of the WHO; it's used as an argument?

Pompeo also forgot to mention the people we had there which were pulled out.

[Novus America]

The WTO has a national security exception as well. And the president could unilaterally leave the WTO...

Do you not see how every reply you make makes america look more and more like a petulant child screaming its lungs out because mommy wouldn't buy it candy before dinner?

Friends are not really how international relationships work. What matters is common interests.
And no, the Trade Expansion Act of 1962 legally allows the president to unilaterally impose sanctions.

It's not about friendship. Especially not between natural economic rivals like the us and China. What it's about is maintaining an air of dignity and generally looking like a serious nation as opposed to a tin pot dictatorship that just happens to have enough weapons to be a superpower.

Moving the goalposts. You claimed it was illegal.
Besides we have the right to trade (or not trade) whatever we want, which whoever we want unless international sanctions keep us from doing so. That is part of national sovereignty which you claim to support.

Also a such things are nothing new, sure Trump does not unusually do it in a dignified manner, but there is nothing undignified in protecting your national security and people.

[Valrifell]

And ZERO liberals have argued China is blameless.

There is a strange and disturbing trend of whataboutism any time you bring new news about the depth of China’s fuck up though.

Kind of like how Trump supporters still do with Clinton and may do for centuries.

The fact that China lied and people died does not stand in opposition to the fact that Trump lied and people died.

I agree and I've probably been guilty of this to some degree. It's just that, for the most part, whenever China's fuckups are brought into the spotlight it seems as though it's at the expense of remembering the domestic failures that let this get as bad as it did.

People are quicker to look at the death count and say "fuck China" than "fuck Trump" but I think the latter has more of a role in why this is so bad domestically, whereas the former is responsible for the initial outbreak and downplaying evidence to the virus' severity.

[LiberNovusAmericae]

What do y'all think of the various people protesting the stay at home orders in various states? I can understand small business owners getting frustrated because they need to make money to eat, but it seems to me, many of these protesters are just extremists who want to start trouble on Trump's behalf.

[Novus America]

What do y'all think of the various people protesting the stay at home orders in various states? I can understand small business owners getting frustrated because they need to make money to eat, but it seems to me, many of these protesters are just extremists who want to start trouble on Trump's behalf.

People are simply increasingly the orders anyways:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnkoetsi ... c283706fb5
Some are pushing a political agenda, but it seems public patience is simply running out.

[The Black Forrest]

There is a strange and disturbing trend of whataboutism any time you bring new news about the depth of China’s fuck up though.

Kind of like how Trump supporters still do with Clinton and may do for centuries.

The fact that China lied and people died does not stand in opposition to the fact that Trump lied and people died.

I agree and I've probably been guilty of this to some degree. It's just that, for the most part, whenever China's fuckups are brought into the spotlight it seems as though it's at the expense of remembering the domestic failures that let this get as bad as it did.

People are quicker to look at the death count and say "fuck China" than "fuck Trump" but I think the latter has more of a role in why this is so bad domestically, whereas the former is responsible for the initial outbreak and downplaying evidence to the virus' severity.

Indeed.

[Galloism]

Meanwhile, Secretary of State Pompeo says theres enormous evidence from the intelligence community it has.

That’s fresh off the wire.

I would like to see his enormous evidence.......wait that didn't come out right.......

Even with this article

"Pompeo stopped short of saying the virus was man-made, noting that he agreed with a report by the Office of the Director of National Intelligence that ruled out genetic modification or it having been man-made.

The virus’s origin has become a flash point in the pandemic and ratcheted up tensions between the U.S. and China. President Donald Trump has escalated efforts to attach blame to China as U.S. pandemic deaths pass 66,000."

Is this effort about punishment or shifting blame?

No doubt, some of both. And also a healthy dose of getting to the truth.

“I’ve seen what the intelligence community has said,” said Pompeo. “I have no reason to believe that they’ve got it wrong.” Pompeo declined to say whether the Chinese intentionally released the virus.

Trump and his aides sharpened their criticism of Beijing last week, demanding answers about the virus’s origin. The president tweeted Friday that some U.S. television networks are “Chinese puppets,” while his super-political action committee unleashed anti-China ads.


Donald J. Trump
✔
@realDonaldTrump
Concast (@NBCNews) and Fake News @CNN are going out of their way to say GREAT things about China. They are Chinese puppets who want to do business there. They use USA airwaves to help China. The Enemy of the People!

148K
8:27 AM - May 1, 2020
Twitter Ads info and privacy
72.5K people are talking about this
“China behaved like authoritarian regimes do, attempted to conceal and hide and confuse,” Pompeo said on ABC. “It employed the World Health Organization as a tool to do the same.”

Sounds like an effort to shift blame.

That’s just the media and Donald trump making everything fucking political. That’s just noise - I was focusing on the statements of the Secretary of State and former Director of the CIA.

Contrary to popular belief, they’re different people.

The secretary said China continued to block access by health experts from the WHO, as well as U.S. scientists, from getting access to samples of the virus needed for study.

This one did make me pause. With all the bad mouthing of the WHO; it's used as an argument?

The purpose here is to talk about china’s fuckery in this regard. Whether or not the WHO screwed up (and I say they did), they also got fucked with as well.

That doesn’t absolve them from blame, but it does show it’s not as if they had all the data either.

Pompeo also forgot to mention the people we had there which were pulled out.

Yes, he did - because it wasn’t about that. Our government screwed up too. But that’s a “whataboutism” thing again - immediately deflecting onto Trump’s screwups when talking about China’s.

[LiberNovusAmericae]

What do y'all think of the various people protesting the stay at home orders in various states? I can understand small business owners getting frustrated because they need to make money to eat, but it seems to me, many of these protesters are just extremists who want to start trouble on Trump's behalf.

People are simply increasingly the orders anyways:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnkoetsi ... c283706fb5
Some are pushing a political agenda, but it seems public patience is simply running out.

I understand. The people who are just impatient have my sympathy, but the obvious politically motivated partisans do not. The ones who want to start trouble ruin it for everyone else.

[The Black Forrest]

I would like to see his enormous evidence.......wait that didn't come out right.......

Even with this article



Is this effort about punishment or shifting blame?

No doubt, some of both. And also a healthy dose of getting to the truth.

Sounds like an effort to shift blame.

That’s just the media and Donald trump making everything fucking political. That’s just noise - I was focusing on the statements of the Secretary of State and former Director of the CIA.

Contrary to popular belief, they’re different people.

This one did make me pause. With all the bad mouthing of the WHO; it's used as an argument?

The purpose here is to talk about china’s fuckery in this regard. Whether or not the WHO screwed up (and I say they did), they also got fucked with as well.

That doesn’t absolve them from blame, but it does show it’s not as if they had all the data either.

Pompeo also forgot to mention the people we had there which were pulled out.

Yes, he did - because it wasn’t about that. Our government screwed up too. But that’s a “whataboutism” thing again - immediately deflecting onto Trump’s screwups when talking about China’s.

Hmmm? It's not whataboutism when people are arguing don't loose sight of how badly trump fucked up.

I don't understand how you think these arguments are suggesting China is innocent.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

Friends are not really how international relationships work. What matters is common interests.
And no, the Trade Expansion Act of 1962 legally allows the president to unilaterally impose sanctions.

It's not about friendship. Especially not between natural economic rivals like the us and China. What it's about is maintaining an air of dignity and generally looking like a serious nation as opposed to a tin pot dictatorship that just happens to have enough weapons to be a superpower.

There is a lot to be said for dignity. Look at the UK, leading the first world back into poverty and insularity. But with some dignity, also nuclear weapons.

[Galloism]

No doubt, some of both. And also a healthy dose of getting to the truth.



That’s just the media and Donald trump making everything fucking political. That’s just noise - I was focusing on the statements of the Secretary of State and former Director of the CIA.

Contrary to popular belief, they’re different people.



The purpose here is to talk about china’s fuckery in this regard. Whether or not the WHO screwed up (and I say they did), they also got fucked with as well.

That doesn’t absolve them from blame, but it does show it’s not as if they had all the data either.



Yes, he did - because it wasn’t about that. Our government screwed up too. But that’s a “whataboutism” thing again - immediately deflecting onto Trump’s screwups when talking about China’s.

Hmmm? It's not whataboutism when people are arguing don't loose sight of how badly trump fucked up.

I don't understand how you think these arguments are suggesting China is innocent.

Whataboutism isn’t used to make people think the person is innocent, but to shift the conversation away from the given guilty party to focus on another guilty party. This deflects criticism from the party being talked about.

It’s essentially “you too” or “him too” as the case may be.