Coronavirus Thread III: The Show Must Not Go On (READ OP)

[Nobel Hobos 2]

That’s just the media and Donald trump making everything fucking political. That’s just noise - I was focusing on the statements of the Secretary of State and former Director of the CIA.

Yeah, gotta give Donald Trump that. He hasn't found the time to sack EVERYONE in his administration who is vaguely competent.

[Gormwood]

Hmmm? I doubt Gauth is arguing China can't be blamed. He tends to focus on the Trump connection.

For example; I doubt you will see any serious punishment since China gave the Trump family a great deal of money with those patents trade marks. I am sure there are a couple hotels as well.

Anyway; finding blame at this juncture shouldn't be the focus.

I don't doubt that Trump won't really punish China. And if Gauth focuses entirely on trump and never talks about China, he kinda is defending the CCP, albeit passively and not actively.

Not actively condemning China is now defending the CCP. Really reaching for a gotcha there.

[Gormwood]

I think it was fox who reported that one(I am not sure) Trump has mentioned it as well.

This guy offers arguments for it not having escaped from a lab.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/coronaviru ... 5074e53042

Meanwhile, Secretary of State Pompeo says theres enormous evidence from the intelligence community it has.

That’s fresh off the wire.

They'll find the Iraqi WMDs there too.

[Galloism]

I don't doubt that Trump won't really punish China. And if Gauth focuses entirely on trump and never talks about China, he kinda is defending the CCP, albeit passively and not actively.

Not actively condemning China is now defending the CCP. Really reaching for a gotcha there.

Yeah, it’s that time of the year again - I agree with Gauth.

There’s a good reason to focus your energies on your local politicians - those are the people you directly influence their victory or defeat. Failing to browbeat the CCP isn’t supporting them - it just means you’re more focused on domestic affairs than foreign affairs.

By the same token, foreign policy wonks have good reason to focus on the CCP, as they can influence their local politicians to take appropriate action for the future. So they may not focus so much on domestic politicians per se, but shift the narrative on how the public thinks those politicians should respond.

A person’s lack of criticism over covid handling of either the CCP or the current administration should not be taken as support - merely null.

[LiberNovusAmericae]

I will not deny that the lab theory is too close to an outrageous conspiracy theory for comfort. I think the older idea of it coming from the wetmakets is more rational.

[Valentian Elysium]

Oh my, 499 pages!
Umm...almost a month did it take us to finish this thread. A lot has happened, hasn't it?
At the start of the thread, for example, around 1 million cases were all around the world. Now, one month later, there are 3.5 million cases. How fast this spread...

[Ifreann]

Well, not really.

It pretty much does. The only time international law means anything is when said powers can use it against their enemies. India, Pakistan, USA, Israel, China, Russia, and North Korea all regularly violate international law. The only time they care is when they can use it as a bludgeon.

Again, not really. International law is a series of agreements between nations, and not unlike interpersonal relations, nations aren't going to like it when other nations don't keep to their agreements. And you can't make countries stop being pissed off at you with nuclear weapons. When European countries decided to stop joining in with America's war on terror, they didn't get their capitals nuked.

[The Black Forrest]

Hmmm? It's not whataboutism when people are arguing don't loose sight of how badly trump fucked up.

I don't understand how you think these arguments are suggesting China is innocent.

Whataboutism isn’t used to make people think the person is innocent, but to shift the conversation away from the given guilty party to focus on another guilty party. This deflects criticism from the party being talked about.

It’s essentially “you too” or “him too” as the case may be.

So effort of China screwed up is not about making trump look more innocent?

At this juncture; it's seems more political then about Justice.

This part of the process should be about evidence and measure the effects and damages. We haven't even been hit with the second wave yet. Already China and Japan are reporting re-infections.

Nobody here is arguing China is without blame.

[Galloism]

Whataboutism isn’t used to make people think the person is innocent, but to shift the conversation away from the given guilty party to focus on another guilty party. This deflects criticism from the party being talked about.

It’s essentially “you too” or “him too” as the case may be.

So effort of China screwed up is not about making trump look more innocent?

At this juncture; it's seems more political then about Justice.

This part of the process should be about evidence and measure the effects and damages. We haven't even been hit with the second wave yet. Already China and Japan are reporting re-infections.

Nobody here is arguing China is without blame.

Efforts to talk about China screwups have various motivations. The five eyes report is from us, U.K., New Zealand, Canada, and Australia.

Australia called the lab theory unlikely at a 5% chance - dissenting voice of the five in the report. You think Canada is interested in deflecting blame from Trump? New Zealand trying to protect him?

[Nobel Hobos 2]

Oh my, 499 pages!
Umm...almost a month did it take us to finish this thread. A lot has happened, hasn't it?
At the start of the thread, for example, around 1 million cases were all around the world. Now, one month later, there are 3.5 million cases. How fast this spread...

Actually that's not too bad. In a completely unprotected community it would double about every week. I think, depends on what country. Anyway it would be much more, without physical distancing and layoffs and lockdowns. It's all about keeping serious cases within the capacity of hospitals. The worst might be still to come, when the disease gets into countries with few hospitals.

I'm actually pleased at how people around the world have handled the virus. We've done well, and looked out for each other, far better than I expected. There's a mad rush of pharmaceutical companies, trying for the vaccine or the life-saving treatment, and it may come to late for most of us in the West, but those will save many lives in the developing countries. Either way there will be a happy ending to this tragedy.

[The Black Forrest]

So effort of China screwed up is not about making trump look more innocent?

At this juncture; it's seems more political then about Justice.

This part of the process should be about evidence and measure the effects and damages. We haven't even been hit with the second wave yet. Already China and Japan are reporting re-infections.

Nobody here is arguing China is without blame.

Efforts to talk about China screwups have various motivations. The five eyes report is from us, U.K., New Zealand, Canada, and Australia.

Australia called the lab theory unlikely at a 5% chance - dissenting voice of the five in the report. You think Canada is interested in deflecting blame from Trump? New Zealand trying to protect him?

I am not talking about the intentions of other nations.

They are not living with leading the world in reported covid stats. They are not dealing with a leader who will grasp at anything to shift blame. As you mentioned; we should learn from this. With this President? This government? Not so much.

Again; nobody here is suggesting China is innocent.

[Galloism]

Efforts to talk about China screwups have various motivations. The five eyes report is from us, U.K., New Zealand, Canada, and Australia.

Australia called the lab theory unlikely at a 5% chance - dissenting voice of the five in the report. You think Canada is interested in deflecting blame from Trump? New Zealand trying to protect him?

I am not talking about the intentions of other nations.

They are not living with leading the world in reported covid stats. They are not dealing with a leader who will grasp at anything to shift blame. As you mentioned; we should learn from this. With this President? This government? Not so much.

Again; nobody here is suggesting China is innocent.

Again, this information he’s talking about is no doubt from the five eyes.

We’re talking about China’s blame and the lab theory. You’re talking about how talking about China’s blame deflects from Trump’s blame, and btw let’s bring up something unrelated to the statement and topic that we were discussing (the lab theory) trump is blameworthy for (the cdc early warning team withdrawal).

[The Black Forrest]

I am not talking about the intentions of other nations.

They are not living with leading the world in reported covid stats. They are not dealing with a leader who will grasp at anything to shift blame. As you mentioned; we should learn from this. With this President? This government? Not so much.

Again; nobody here is suggesting China is innocent.

Again, this information he’s talking about is no doubt from the five eyes.

We’re talking about China’s blame and the lab theory. You’re talking about how talking about China’s blame deflects from Trump’s blame, and btw let’s bring up something unrelated to the statement and topic that we were discussing (the lab theory) trump is blameworthy for (the cdc early warning team withdrawal).

Ah whataboutism again. It's not whataboutism if trump is saying the same thing.

Again, seeking blame at this juncture is a waste of effort. Nobody is suggesting they are without blame.

Unrelated? Pompeo was going on about China blocking people. How is it unrelated when we had people there before?

[Rojava Free State]

Again, this information he’s talking about is no doubt from the five eyes.

We’re talking about China’s blame and the lab theory. You’re talking about how talking about China’s blame deflects from Trump’s blame, and btw let’s bring up something unrelated to the statement and topic that we were discussing (the lab theory) trump is blameworthy for (the cdc early warning team withdrawal).

Ah whataboutism again. It's not whataboutism if trump is saying the same thing.

Again, seeking blame at this juncture is a waste of effort. Nobody is suggesting they are without blame.

Unrelated? Pompeo was going on about China blocking people. How is it unrelated we had people there before?

Ah yes, let's just pretend no one messed up and that this is nobody's fault. I'm sure that by holding zero people accountable, this totally will never happen again.

I wish some drunk driver would use the same excuse in court. "Yes your honor I did run over a woman and child but the bartender didn't suggest I have a designated driver and the traffic light was broken and honestly we shouldn't be seeking to blame anyone during a tragedy cause it's a waste of time." When thousands of people die because of the ineptitude of Xi Jingping, Donald Trump, Boris Johnson, Bill DiBlasio, and Gurbanguly Berdimuhamedow, the last thing we should be doing is not holding people accountable. As far as I'm concerned, it's like Xi or Trump went door to door in America shooting 63,000 people, and with someone I know fighting for their life right now due to COVID, I am not in a forgive and forget kind of mood, so yes this is Xi's fault and Trump's fault and the fault of several other people, and each and every guilty party deserves severe punishment for their fatal mistakes.

[Gormwood]

Ah whataboutism again. It's not whataboutism if trump is saying the same thing.

Again, seeking blame at this juncture is a waste of effort. Nobody is suggesting they are without blame.

Unrelated? Pompeo was going on about China blocking people. How is it unrelated we had people there before?

Ah yes, let's just pretend no one messed up and that this is nobody's fault. I'm sure that by holding zero people accountable, this totally will never happen again.

I wish some drunk driver would use the same excuse in court. "Yes your honor I did run over a woman and child but the bartender didn't suggest I have a designated driver and the traffic light was broken and honestly we shouldn't be seeking to blame anyone during a tragedy cause it's a waste of time." When thousands of people die because of the ineptitude of Xi Jingping, Donald Trump, Boris Johnson, Bill DiBlasio, and the government of Turkmenistan, the last thing we should be doing is not holding people accountable. As far as I'm concerned, it's like Xi or Trump went door to door in America shoot 63,000 people, and with someone I know fighting for their life right now due to COVID, I am not in a forgive and forget kind of mood, so yes this is Xi's fault and Trump's fault and the fault of several other people, and each and every guilty party deserves severe punishment for their fatal mistakes.

The more people blame China, the quicker we'll develop a vaccine.

[Galloism]

Again, this information he’s talking about is no doubt from the five eyes.

We’re talking about China’s blame and the lab theory. You’re talking about how talking about China’s blame deflects from Trump’s blame, and btw let’s bring up something unrelated to the statement and topic that we were discussing (the lab theory) trump is blameworthy for (the cdc early warning team withdrawal).

Ah whataboutism again. It's not whataboutism if trump is saying the same thing.

Again, seeking blame at this juncture is a waste of effort. Nobody is suggesting they are without blame.

Unrelated? Pompeo was going on about China blocking people. How is it unrelated when we had people there before?

Are you whatabouting on the whataboutism?

Weird.

Anyway, to the last part, because they’re blocking people now, preventing investigation and stymying efforts to find the truth, from multiple countries not just us.

That has only a passing acquaintance in the night with the cdc team withdrawal in 2017. You might as well ask why Obama stopped funding the research in 2014, or why we didn’t allow General Douglas MacArthur to invade China in 1951 and stop this before it started.

[Rojava Free State]

I don't doubt that Trump won't really punish China. And if Gauth focuses entirely on trump and never talks about China, he kinda is defending the CCP, albeit passively and not actively.

Not actively condemning China is now defending the CCP. Really reaching for a gotcha there.

Passively defending the CCP once again. Remember, actively defending them means saying they did no wrong. Passively defending them means constantly yelling WHAT ABOUT TRUMP everytime literally everyone blames China. Keep in mind that many of those blaming China are not fans of Trump...unless of course you think New Zealand's prime Minister or Angela Merkel are suddenly good friends of his.

By continuing to deflect, you may as well just say "STOP BLAMING CHINA!"

[The Black Forrest]

Ah whataboutism again. It's not whataboutism if trump is saying the same thing.

Again, seeking blame at this juncture is a waste of effort. Nobody is suggesting they are without blame.

Unrelated? Pompeo was going on about China blocking people. How is it unrelated we had people there before?

Ah yes, let's just pretend no one messed up and that this is nobody's fault. I'm sure that by holding zero people accountable, this totally will never happen again.

I wish some drunk driver would use the same excuse in court. "Yes your honor I did run over a woman and child but the bartender didn't suggest I have a designated driver and the traffic light was broken and honestly we shouldn't be seeking to blame anyone during a tragedy cause it's a waste of time." When thousands of people die because of the ineptitude of Xi Jingping, Donald Trump, Boris Johnson, Bill DiBlasio, and the government of Turkmenistan, the last thing we should be doing is not holding people accountable. As far as I'm concerned, it's like Xi or Trump went door to door in America shoot 63,000 people, and with someone I know fighting for their life right now due to COVID, I am not in a forgive and forget kind of mood, so yes this is Xi's fault and Trump's fault and the fault of several other people, and each and every guilty party deserves severe punishment for their fatal mistakes.

Your interpretation is......odd.

"Again, seeking blame at this juncture is a waste of effort. Nobody is suggesting they are without blame."

Not seeing how I am saying they are innocent.

We haven't even had the second wave yet. Again China and Japan are reporting re-infection.

What do you hope to accomplish by stating China is at fault at this point of the pandemic? Does anybody think they are not?

[Ifreann]

Ah whataboutism again. It's not whataboutism if trump is saying the same thing.

Again, seeking blame at this juncture is a waste of effort. Nobody is suggesting they are without blame.

Unrelated? Pompeo was going on about China blocking people. How is it unrelated we had people there before?

Ah yes, let's just pretend no one messed up and that this is nobody's fault. I'm sure that by holding zero people accountable, this totally will never happen again.

Nobody is suggesting they are without blame.

[-Astoria]

If this gets locked...

I'm calling dibs on the next thread's ownership.

[Rojava Free State]

Ah yes, let's just pretend no one messed up and that this is nobody's fault. I'm sure that by holding zero people accountable, this totally will never happen again.

I wish some drunk driver would use the same excuse in court. "Yes your honor I did run over a woman and child but the bartender didn't suggest I have a designated driver and the traffic light was broken and honestly we shouldn't be seeking to blame anyone during a tragedy cause it's a waste of time." When thousands of people die because of the ineptitude of Xi Jingping, Donald Trump, Boris Johnson, Bill DiBlasio, and the government of Turkmenistan, the last thing we should be doing is not holding people accountable. As far as I'm concerned, it's like Xi or Trump went door to door in America shoot 63,000 people, and with someone I know fighting for their life right now due to COVID, I am not in a forgive and forget kind of mood, so yes this is Xi's fault and Trump's fault and the fault of several other people, and each and every guilty party deserves severe punishment for their fatal mistakes.

The more people blame China, the quicker we'll develop a vaccine.

Hey Gauth, why did we send James Alex Fields, the guy who murdered a protester in Charlottesville, to prison? It isnt like that brought back the person who died.

I'll answer that question. It's because when someone causes wonton death, they deserve to be punished. And keep in mind china was a problem for much of the world long before COVID. I still remember them forcing the NBA to not back the Hong Kong protests, and many of their supporters committing acts of violence for them at protests in other countries against the CCP. but please, why don't you cape some more for Xi and his cronies. Tell us again how because Trump fucked up, that automatically absolves Xi of all guilt.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

So effort of China screwed up is not about making trump look more innocent?

At this juncture; it's seems more political then about Justice.

This part of the process should be about evidence and measure the effects and damages. We haven't even been hit with the second wave yet. Already China and Japan are reporting re-infections.

Nobody here is arguing China is without blame.

Efforts to talk about China screwups have various motivations. The five eyes report is from us, U.K., New Zealand, Canada, and Australia.

Australia called the lab theory unlikely at a 5% chance - dissenting voice of the five in the report. You think Canada is interested in deflecting blame from Trump? New Zealand trying to protect him?

Australia has the most reason (trade) to deflect blame from China. ScoMo signals independence from Trump, but not as much as Canada, but I think really ScoMo is waiting for a strong lead from Trump. He'll be all in if the President says Go, it's always been that way.

[Galloism]

What do you hope to accomplish by stating China is at fault at this point of the pandemic? Does anybody think they are not?

Yes. In fact, there’s been a large disinformation campaign from China pushing that very narrative, including them threatening governments and media outlets around the world who go against it.

[Rojava Free State]

Ah yes, let's just pretend no one messed up and that this is nobody's fault. I'm sure that by holding zero people accountable, this totally will never happen again.

Nobody is suggesting they are without blame.

Go back and re read what I highlighted.

[The Black Forrest]

Ah whataboutism again. It's not whataboutism if trump is saying the same thing.

Again, seeking blame at this juncture is a waste of effort. Nobody is suggesting they are without blame.

Unrelated? Pompeo was going on about China blocking people. How is it unrelated when we had people there before?

Are you whatabouting on the whataboutism?

Weird.

Anyway, to the last part, because they’re blocking people now, preventing investigation and stymying efforts to find the truth, from multiple countries not just us.

That has only a passing acquaintance in the night with the cdc team withdrawal in 2017. You might as well ask why Obama stopped funding the research in 2014, or why we didn’t allow General Douglas MacArthur to invade China in 1951 and stop this before it started.

Says the guy using whataboutism as well.

Am I supposed to be surprised China is doing what they have done before?

What do you hope to accomplish?