Replacing the UN with a new sans-China organization

[Questarian New Yorkshire]

this thread is what white people look like when they realise their hegemony has just about melted away

it should be preserved for future generations to read

[Bromagia]

Of course. But, failing to intervene in '45, we should have at least done so by '50.

Except it would pretty much be impossible in the 50s. In 45, nobody other than the US had the nuke. The US could pretty much unilaterally demand anything for a window of 4 years, and none of the other powers would have a good reason to oppose unilateral intervention on behalf of one of the "Big Four" at its time of need.

True.

[Ankenland]

this thread is what white people look like when they realise their hegemony has just about melted away

it should be preserved for future generations to read

I hope you live at a safe enough distance to laugh at this. These Americans will eat up the lowest, most banal form of hickish, jingoistic racism, just the way they did after 9/11, and support anything the government does to get itself out of the corona economic collapse, as long as it appears to be lashing out in the stupid, most destructive possible way.

[Bromagia]

this thread is what white people look like when they realise their hegemony has just about melted away

it should be preserved for future generations to read

Which "white" people? Do you have some ethnic telepathy or are you just a racist?

Wait, don't answer. You're just a racist.

[Bromagia]

this thread is what white people look like when they realise their hegemony has just about melted away

it should be preserved for future generations to read

I hope you live at a safe enough distance to laugh at this. These Americans will eat up the lowest, most banal form of hickish, jingoistic racism, just the way they did after 9/11, and support anything the government does to get itself out of the corona economic collapse, as long as it appears to be lashing out in the stupid, most destructive possible way.

What specifically has been said that is racist?

[Questarian New Yorkshire]

I hope you live at a safe enough distance to laugh at this.

nobody does

[Novus America]

Ah but you really cannot attack now can you? Right now the Europeans and many in the US still claim you want a peaceful rise. But if you attack, and they see videos of western style skyscrapers burning, Taiwanese dying, you show your true colors. And then the world turns against you. Economically and politically. Besides is your public ready to watch missiles crash into Shanghai? See the same and hundreds or thousands dead and dying?

Then what? There is a reason the PRC has not attacked already, because your government knows this. You are not attacking because you cannot, you cannot end it. You are stuck in the status quo. The curse of playing with the neoliberal EU and relying on neoliberals in the US to support you is you have to pretend at least somewhat to agree to play the neoliberals game. Your friends in the US and EU are the neoliberals. The hard nosed nationalists want to break law at from relying on buying the stuff you make.

See the irony? You made your money relying on US and EU neoliberalism, which keeps you from completely rejecting it publicly here.

You are stuck. You cannot strike now and you know it. So you wait.

And the US let the Philippines go. We let Puerto Rico decide, if it wants to go we it can. But the big difference is the PRC never controlled Taiwan in the first place. You are not letting go of something you never had. The US does not play the game “we once owned it, we can invade and annex it at will game”. We have let places go.

Look I would like the Philippines to rejoin the US but I do not think we should attack them, but rather show them the could benefit and have real autonomy and freedom while doing so.

See the difference?

Anyways Taiwan is more like Canada to the US than the Deep South (more on that in a minute).
Because although we were once part of the same government we never controlled Canada as the US. Just like the PRC never controlled Taiwan.

And I would like Canada to join us. But again fundamental difference. By convincing them more integration is beneficial. But if they say no we are not threatening to bomb Ottawa. In theory we could, but in reality we have no desire too and would pay a huge political and economic price to do so.

Now the South in the Civil War was quite different. 1) They agreed to join the US. 2) They had massive autonomy, full and equal political say, actually more, unfair say. Because they insisted 3/5ths of their slaves be counted towards giving them extra votes. In exchange they join the US. They joined on their terms, on a deal favorable to them and threw a hissy fit because they lost an election, not because we took any of their rights away. Plus it was never done with the agreement of their people because in several Southern States the majority were slaves.

But anyways had we lost and the South actually broken away, granted the soaves freedom and been de facto independent for 70 years, yeah it would be hard to justify attacking them 70 years later.

It may not be appropriate to discuss the Taiwan issue here. I decided to stop it.In conclusion, this is a problem within our country, which is also recognized by the Taiwan government. At least before this administration, they were open to recognition. If they declare independence, first of all, they violate the constitution.If protecting the integrity of your country means being against the world, come on. It's not something we haven't experienced in our history

It is not something you have ever experienced. I presume you are not a poor factory worker, but probably middle class enjoying all the benefits you reaped from exploiting Western neoliberalism.
You younger generation does not know such conditions. And I doubt most willing to give up their jobs with western companies to do.

I think it topical as the subject of the thread pertains to recognizing the PRC over the ROC.
So until a Mod says no I think it fair to discuss. If you attack Taiwan you very well might be expelled from many international organizations.

You can not violate a Constitution that never applied to you.
The US Constitution does not allow states to unilaterally declared independence but that does not apply to Canada. Because although we claimed Canada they never joined it.
So we cannot use it as good justification to attack them today. We would become a widely hated pariah and lose our allies.
(We did try to invade Canada BTW, twice but failed like you did so we decided it better to recognize them and make friends than keep trying to invade, also in the the early1800s you could still get away the seizing places by force shit, before you say “but Iraq” we never tried to annex Iraq, and Iraq seriously harmed our economy and international standing, it was a bad idea after all and not worth it).

Now if the ROC had agreed to your constitution, been given a fair say in the system, and had its rights respected and it tried to declare independence that would be another matter.
But see that did not happen.

That is the problem you have. Invading by force would completely disrupt and probably collapse an order you have hugely benefited from.
See Italy might agree to be Belted and Railroaded right now, but actually attack Taiwan an all but a handful of dictatorships drop you like it’s hot.

Besides you might not even win. The PRC has no experience in such an operation, Taiwan has ways to sink a lot of ships, and the US might intervene.

So what is more important? Your economy? Your international standing? Or attacking Taiwan (and maybe losing)?”
You might be willing to sacrifice the first two, but your leaders are not.

Which is why the PRC will bitch, moan, scream and threaten, but not be able to do anything, at least while the situation is a it is now. Maybe it will change enough in the future that you can, but for now you will not. Why do you think your leaders have not done it?

And if you think they should do it now, you must acknowledge your dear leader is wrong, because he will not pull the pin.
Because right now you are stuck in a trap. To get what you want on one thing you have to give up what you want on the others.

[Questarian New Yorkshire]

Taiwan is an integral part of China populated by Chinese people and governed by the former government of China, situation isn't comparable to US and Canada at all

[Ankenland]

American social media is censoring Americans on behalf of the PRC government! They are using their political and economic power to turn our own companies against us.

Hence why we need to keep them out of our economy. The more the PRC becomes involved in our economy, the more his problems become mine!

Okay, well, the United States runs Radio Free Asia which spins constant dumb hoax atrocity propaganda like that time Amanpour was pushing "oh no they are throwing babies out of incubators" to get people to want to bomb former Yugoslavia, but this time, it's "they are burning old people alive because of corona"

the only difference is that America just runs these marginal prolefeed mills, because China did not decide to sell Chinese social media to Americans. If Americans decided to sell their social media to Chinese, your problem is not the Chinese, it is your own system.

[Vistulange]

Of course. But, failing to intervene in '45, we should have at least done so by '50.

Except it would pretty much be impossible in the 50s. In 45, nobody other than the US had the nuke. The US could pretty much unilaterally demand anything for a window of 4 years, and none of the other powers would have a good reason to oppose unilateral intervention on behalf of one of the "Big Four" at its time of need.

Note that back in '45, simply having the bomb did not necessarily mean you could deliver it anywhere you liked. This was the era prior to ICBM's and SLBM's. Now, if you were making demands from Japan or Germany, who had no means by which to resist the delivery of a bomb, that would work. It did work, seeing both countries surrendered unconditionally, meaning, the Allies got a blank cheque to do as they pleased, which they used to its fullest extent. Germany's political institutions were recreated from ground up, while Japan got a very similar treatment.

On the other hand, if you wanted to demand things from the victorious allies, you would need air superiority, so the bombers that would actually deliver the bomb(s) could actually get to their destination. 1945 was also not a year when the US was churning out atomic bombs, in the numbers of "hundreds", so "spamming" a bunch towards the general direction of, say, the United Kingdom and hoping that one or two bombs got to their destination was not an option.

Moreover, the US did not even need to utilise the bomb to get the Western Allies on its side, because a) they already were, and b) they were broke. All it could have been good for was to pressure Stalin, and even then, Operation Unthinkable was still unthinkable.

[Novus America]

Then not just go around using bribery and corruption you know. But straight out pillaging the waters of neighbors using illegal bottom trawling, seizing their islands, etc.

Nobody would care if the were successful if they would avoid imperialist claims, stop do so much damage to the world environment, stoop trying to impose their authoritarian model of censorship on everyone, etc.

They are not trying to spread “Communism” true, instead they are trying to seize as much land and power and possible.
"Now I will tell you the answer to my question. It is this. The Party seeks power entirely for its own sake.

Oh no - not the oceanic territorial claims of the Phillipines. Why, that's certainly something I'd like to spend American resources on!

No, wait, I just checked my "caring about border disputes on the other side of the world clock" and the hand is still pointing at "not caring" and looks like it's stuck on that time. It's a unique case of a clock which is broken but always right, all day.

World environment is fine, nothing you can do about it anyway, and this is only slightly less smallbrained than "pick a fight with China because of the human rights of the Chinese." You want your country to do this for... what? Birds, dolphins?

Maybe they should get Greta Thunberg to start making the "environmental panic" case for attacking whoever the enemy is that year. Why, she should get a job working at the New York Times!

Wanna know who else is trying to seize as much power as possible?

That's right. Every other country. Also, every other corporation.

You have nukes, yankee, so they can't take it from you unless you sell it to them. Stop selling it. Flog some of your own corporate executives, I think we can all agree this would improve things.

No the environment is shit, and outsourcing is making it shittier.
They will not stop at some islands in the Philippines. They want to dominant the whole Pacific and even make occasion threats towards the Marianas and Hawaii.

But see I actually agree in the last part. We should stop selling our economy out by buying our stuff, and flog our own corporate executives through massive taxes on their outsourcing.

I have never called for attacking the PRC militarily. If every country can advance their power, why do you scream it is so evil for the US to want to advance ours then?

[North German Realm]

Except it would pretty much be impossible in the 50s. In 45, nobody other than the US had the nuke. The US could pretty much unilaterally demand anything for a window of 4 years, and none of the other powers would have a good reason to oppose unilateral intervention on behalf of one of the "Big Four" at its time of need.

Note that back in '45, simply having the bomb did not necessarily mean you could deliver it anywhere you liked. This was the era prior to ICBM's and SLBM's. Now, if you were making demands from Japan or Germany, who had no means by which to resist the delivery of a bomb, that would work. It did work, seeing both countries surrendered unconditionally, meaning, the Allies got a blank cheque to do as they pleased, which they used to its fullest extent. Germany's political institutions were recreated from ground up, while Japan got a very similar treatment.

On the other hand, if you wanted to demand things from the victorious allies, you would need air superiority, so the bombers that would actually deliver the bomb(s) could actually get to their destination. 1945 was also not a year when the US was churning out atomic bombs, in the numbers of "hundreds", so "spamming" a bunch towards the general direction of, say, the United Kingdom and hoping that one or two bombs got to their destination was not an option.

Moreover, the US did not even need to utilise the bomb to get the Western Allies on its side, because a) they already were, and b) they were broke. All it could have been good for was to pressure Stalin, and even then, Operation Unthinkable was still unthinkable.

I didn't say that they'd have to use the nuke. Just that they could use it as a threat -something literally nobody else could at that point and wouldn't until 1949, literally months before the fact the US could no longer unilaterally demand anything began the Cold War.

[Ankenland]

If only we'd given Taiwan the nuke we wouldn't have this problem.

Yeah, now that you mention it, I sure loved the Cuban Missile Crisis - why don't we just have more of those? Fun times! Exciting!

Let me check my clock, to see if it's time for me to care about maritime territorial claims in the South China Sea, enough to want to see America waste money, material or lives on it.

Nope, still not that time!

Taiwan has already figured out that it is better off in the long run being part of China than being - what? A nuclear launch site for NATO? They are playing both sides well for now, but their public opinion, economy, international recognition, treatise status, strategic position and backdoor politics all point towards coming to terms with the fact that they are Chinese people, and phasing into a Hong Kong-like status over the next 30 years.

Still don't care, isn't America's problem.

[Novus America]

Taiwan is an integral part of China populated by Chinese people and governed by the former government of China, situation isn't comparable to US and Canada at all

Actually it is quite comparable. Both the US and Canada were governed by the same former government and did not consider themselves a different people.

And integral part? If it is integral why has it be separated so long and so often? Borders change.
The people of Taiwan want no part of the PRC, and have developed a separate identity too.

[Bromagia]

If only we'd given Taiwan the nuke we wouldn't have this problem.

Yeah, now that you mention it, I sure loved the Cuban Missile Crisis - why don't we just have more of those? Fun times! Exciting!

Let me check my clock, to see if it's time for me to care about maritime territorial claims in the South China Sea, enough to want to see America waste money, material or lives on it.

Nope, still not that time!

Taiwan has already figured out that it is better off in the long run being part of China than being - what? A nuclear launch site for NATO? They are playing both sides well for now, but their public opinion, economy, international recognition, treatise status, strategic position and backdoor politics all point towards coming to terms with the fact that they are Chinese people, and phasing into a Hong Kong-like status over the next 30 years.

Still don't care, isn't America's problem.

Until it is America's problem. Do you think China hasn't already infiltrated important sectors of America?

[Novus America]

American social media is censoring Americans on behalf of the PRC government! They are using their political and economic power to turn our own companies against us.

Hence why we need to keep them out of our economy. The more the PRC becomes involved in our economy, the more his problems become mine!

Okay, well, the United States runs Radio Free Asia which spins constant dumb hoax atrocity propaganda like that time Amanpour was pushing "oh no they are throwing babies out of incubators" to get people to want to bomb former Yugoslavia, but this time, it's "they are burning old people alive because of corona"

the only difference is that America just runs these marginal prolefeed mills, because China did not decide to sell Chinese social media to Americans. If Americans decided to sell their social media to Chinese, your problem is not the Chinese, it is your own system.

And if they ban it (which they do) we cannot stop them.
Yes we should ban PRC media and social media here (as they ban most of ours). Do you not agree?
Again my proposals are to change OUR SYSTEM!

[Pilipinas and Malaya]

If only we'd given Taiwan the nuke we wouldn't have this problem.

Yeah, now that you mention it, I sure loved the Cuban Missile Crisis - why don't we just have more of those? Fun times! Exciting!

Let me check my clock, to see if it's time for me to care about maritime territorial claims in the South China Sea, enough to want to see America waste money, material or lives on it.

Nope, still not that time!

Taiwan has already figured out that it is better off in the long run being part of China than being - what? A nuclear launch site for NATO? They are playing both sides well for now, but their public opinion, economy, international recognition, treatise status, strategic position and backdoor politics all point towards coming to terms with the fact that they are Chinese people, and phasing into a Hong Kong-like status over the next 30 years.

Still don't care, isn't America's problem.

Both China and America have deeply vested interests in Taiwan, as China wants to reintegrate it, while the US wants to maintain it.

And no, I don’t think Taiwan will ho towards China that easily. The Taiwanese have rather strong anti-PRC sentiments and are basically free. It’s honestly petty that China won’t recognize the independence of the Taiwanese because there is almost nothing important China can do there asides from establish dominance I guess.

[Ankenland]

No the environment is shit, and outsourcing is making it shittier. They will not stop at some islands in the Philippines. They want to dominant the whole Pacific and even make occasion threats towards the Marianas and Hawaii.

You don't care about the environment, neither do I, and even if you did, what are you going to do about it? That's right - nothing!

Marianas? Who cares? What do you get from these islands? That's right - nothing!
What are they going to do to Hawaii? Tweet at it? Surprise bombing? Oh, they just remembered - they have nukes! They don't want to play that game, because no one can win it! We had an entire cold war about that subject! The lesson was learned by everyone - but you!

I have never called for attacking the PRC militarily. If every country can advance their power, why do you scream it is so evil for the US to want to advance ours then?

My problem with the Americans funding and organizing ISIS to try to topple the Syrian government, and watching them get wrecked by the Russians, was that it was it did not provide any material benefit to America or Americans. It was a waste of money, which is the only kind of evil I recognize for the purposes of this discussion.

Every possible line of thinking that stems from "hurr China is adversary" is essentially meaningless spiel that stems from an apparently cavemanlike desire to relive the glorious images of WW2 propaganda, and a failure to understand that the nature of war and adversarial relationships has fundamentally changed, to where they are now a waste of time and money for a country in your position.

[North German Realm]

Taiwan is an integral part of China populated by Chinese people and governed by the former government of China, situation isn't comparable to US and Canada at all

Actually it is quite comparable. Both the US and Canada were governed by the same former government and did not consider themselves a different people.

And integral part? If it is integral why has it be separated so long and so often? Borders change.
The people of Taiwan want no part of the PRC, and have developed a separate identity too.

TBH the only claim China (PRC or RoC) has to Taiwan is the treaties after WW2 giving it to them, else Taiwan was an integral part of Japan before that, and a Dutch colony before that.

[Vistulange]

Note that back in '45, simply having the bomb did not necessarily mean you could deliver it anywhere you liked. This was the era prior to ICBM's and SLBM's. Now, if you were making demands from Japan or Germany, who had no means by which to resist the delivery of a bomb, that would work. It did work, seeing both countries surrendered unconditionally, meaning, the Allies got a blank cheque to do as they pleased, which they used to its fullest extent. Germany's political institutions were recreated from ground up, while Japan got a very similar treatment.

On the other hand, if you wanted to demand things from the victorious allies, you would need air superiority, so the bombers that would actually deliver the bomb(s) could actually get to their destination. 1945 was also not a year when the US was churning out atomic bombs, in the numbers of "hundreds", so "spamming" a bunch towards the general direction of, say, the United Kingdom and hoping that one or two bombs got to their destination was not an option.

Moreover, the US did not even need to utilise the bomb to get the Western Allies on its side, because a) they already were, and b) they were broke. All it could have been good for was to pressure Stalin, and even then, Operation Unthinkable was still unthinkable.

I didn't say that they'd have to use the nuke. Just that they could use it as a threat -something literally nobody else could at that point and wouldn't until 1949, literally months before the fact the US could no longer unilaterally demand anything began the Cold War.

A threat is meaningless if the other side knows it's not practically possible to carry it out, however.

The US acted in a very, very, very smart way in the immediate aftermath of the Second World War, considering its position as a superpower, and perhaps the hegemon of the new world order. Had it acted in a manner hostile to its Western Allies - making unreasonable demands counts towards this, yes - it could have driven them out of the Western sphere and into the arms of the Soviets, just like Cuba went after the Bay of Pigs invasion. Despite the distaste for the communism of the sort the Soviets practiced, again, 1945 wasn't precisely the year Joseph Stalin was "the big bad empire", he was rather "Uncle Joe". He would become the villain - along with the USSR - more towards 1947-ish. It would not be wholly odd to think that countries such as the UK and France gravitating away from the US and veering closer to the USSR, if they were threatened with the usage of US atomic weapons, out of the blue, just because the US could. By this, I'm not asserting that suddenly, the UK and France would have become founding members of the Warsaw Pact, but the US would have certainly lost its allies in Europe. The argument could be made that the US could keep them on its side by force, but I honestly don't think that would have been realistically possible, especially considering the extreme distance between the US and its hypothetical satellite states. If the USSR had to invade Hungary and Czechoslovakia from half a world away, it probably couldn't have, and the same goes for the US. To make such a thing possible, one would need to keep those satellites militarily weak, so that they cannot resist a US invasion from overseas, but that just makes them ripe targets for the Soviets.

Anyway, I've rambled. Tl;dr: Hindsight is perfect, but it would be unreasonable to expect the US decision-makers at the time to suddenly start bullying everybody, especially people they had just fought a long war with, simply because it had atomic bombs.

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

Actually it is quite comparable. Both the US and Canada were governed by the same former government and did not consider themselves a different people.

And integral part? If it is integral why has it be separated so long and so often? Borders change.
The people of Taiwan want no part of the PRC, and have developed a separate identity too.

TBH the only claim China (PRC or RoC) has to Taiwan is the treaties after WW2 giving it to them, else Taiwan was an integral part of Japan before that, and a Dutch colony before that.

Beyond that, Chinese territorial title cannot violate the jus cogens right to self-determination by the people of Taiwan.

[Ankenland]

Both China and America have deeply vested interests in Taiwan, as China wants to reintegrate it, while the US wants to maintain it.

And no, I don’t think Taiwan will ho towards China that easily. The Taiwanese have rather strong anti-PRC sentiments and are basically free. It’s honestly petty that China won’t recognize the independence of the Taiwanese because there is almost nothing important China can do there asides from establish dominance I guess.

Sure, they're just plucky-eyed, democracy-loving freedom fighters, or whatever they said about ISIS when they were still getting American money and material!

I don't care!

You shouldn't care, unless your nation title indicates that you're filipino, in which case, maybe you should, but the Americans shouldn't. The Chinese are not invading the island, they are playing the long game by assuming that they will be the more attractive partner in 30 years, and the way things are going, they are making a safe bet.

What do we even get from Taiwan? South Korea makes the K-pop, Japan makes the anime - what does Taiwan give America? That's right - nothing!

[North German Realm]

A threat is meaningless if the other side knows it's not practically possible to carry it out, however.

The US acted in a very, very, very smart way in the immediate aftermath of the Second World War, considering its position as a superpower, and perhaps the hegemon of the new world order. Had it acted in a manner hostile to its Western Allies - making unreasonable demands counts towards this, yes - it could have driven them out of the Western sphere and into the arms of the Soviets, just like Cuba went after the Bay of Pigs invasion. Despite the distaste for the communism of the sort the Soviets practiced, again, 1945 wasn't precisely the year Joseph Stalin was "the big bad empire", he was rather "Uncle Joe". He would become the villain - along with the USSR - more towards 1947-ish. It would not be wholly odd to think that countries such as the UK and France gravitating away from the US and veering closer to the USSR, if they were threatened with the usage of US atomic weapons, out of the blue, just because the US could. By this, I'm not asserting that suddenly, the UK and France would have become founding members of the Warsaw Pact, but the US would have certainly lost its allies in Europe. The argument could be made that the US could keep them on its side by force, but I honestly don't think that would have been realistically possible, especially considering the extreme distance between the US and its hypothetical satellite states. If the USSR had to invade Hungary and Czechoslovakia from half a world away, it probably couldn't have, and the same goes for the US. To make such a thing possible, one would need to keep those satellites militarily weak, so that they cannot resist a US invasion from overseas, but that just makes them ripe targets for the Soviets.

Anyway, I've rambled. Tl;dr: Hindsight is perfect, but it would be unreasonable to expect the US decision-makers at the time to suddenly start bullying everybody, especially people they had just fought a long war with, simply because it had atomic bombs.

Except it wouldn't be impossible. The US had nukes. Not many of them, but enough to be able to fulfill a threat. The Chinese Civil War didn't end until 5 years after ww2 ended, meaning it could produce more far before the Soviets developed their own. It also occupied Okinawa, giving it a perfect airbase to organize nuclear bombings from. And demanding its allies not do anything while it was dealing with a rebel threat endangering the stability of one of the four Victorious Powers is not hostile.

[Novus America]

If only we'd given Taiwan the nuke we wouldn't have this problem.

Yeah, now that you mention it, I sure loved the Cuban Missile Crisis - why don't we just have more of those? Fun times! Exciting!

Let me check my clock, to see if it's time for me to care about maritime territorial claims in the South China Sea, enough to want to see America waste money, material or lives on it.

Nope, still not that time!

Taiwan has already figured out that it is better off in the long run being part of China than being - what? A nuclear launch site for NATO? They are playing both sides well for now, but their public opinion, economy, international recognition, treatise status, strategic position and backdoor politics all point towards coming to terms with the fact that they are Chinese people, and phasing into a Hong Kong-like status over the next 30 years.

Still don't care, isn't America's problem.

Doing it now would create that sort of crisis maybe. But probably not as the situation was quite reversed. We could threaten the Soviets in 62 because we had overwhelming nuclear superiority.
Something the PRC does not have. Their threats would be empty because their nuclear force is quite small.

But in the PRC did not have nukes until 1964.

But anyways you are completely wrong. Basically nobody in Taiwan supports a Hong Kong situation, (because see what happened in Hong Kong). Both parties have explicitly and unequivocally rejected it. And every year they develop a more independent identity.

Young Taiwanese feel more and more a Taiwanese. The literal exact opposite of what you claim is happening in Taiwanese public opinion.

[Ankenland]

The US acted in a very, very, very smart way in the immediate aftermath of the Second World War, considering its position as a superpower,

Stopped reading there.

Nope, screwed it up massively. Should've nuked the Russians and the Chinese immediately, and then everything else, until there was nothing left but NATO and its protectorates.

Flushed the opportunity down the drain and no one will ever get it again, now we have to put up with all these dysfunctional people, forever. It would have been easier to just glass them.