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by North German Realm » Sun Apr 05, 2020 6:29 am
5 Nov, 2020
Die Morgenpost: "We will reconsider our relationship with Poland" Reichskanzler Lagenmauer says after Polish president protested North German ultimatum that made them restore reproductive freedom. | European Society votes not to persecute Hungary for atrocities committed against Serbs, "Giving a rogue state leave to commit genocide as it sees fit." North German delegate bemoans. | Negotiations still underway in Rome, delegates arguing over the extent of indemnities Turkey might be made to pay, lawful status of Turkish collaborators during occupation of Azerbaijan, Cyprus, Syria.
by Thermodolia » Sun Apr 05, 2020 6:46 am
Nakena wrote:Vivolkha wrote:And what do you get from this?
If anything should be addressed in the UN, it is 1) the veto privileges of the USA, Russia, China, UK, France (furthermore an outdated list consisting of the WWII winners), and 2) its pathetic enforcement powers that allow most nations to simply disregard whatever the UN says.
Funfact that no little amount of the UN member states have a rather poor human right records and a big one in all around douchebaggery.
The UN was once a nice and noble idea, but it has become extremly corrupted.
by Thermodolia » Sun Apr 05, 2020 6:48 am
Ayro Va wrote:If you're removing China, kick the U.S. out, too.
by North German Realm » Sun Apr 05, 2020 6:49 am
Thermodolia wrote:Nakena wrote:
Funfact that no little amount of the UN member states have a rather poor human right records and a big one in all around douchebaggery.
The UN was once a nice and noble idea, but it has become extremly corrupted.
It was never going to work. Especially not when nations have veto power over everything, and the UN can’t enforce any mandate.
5 Nov, 2020
Die Morgenpost: "We will reconsider our relationship with Poland" Reichskanzler Lagenmauer says after Polish president protested North German ultimatum that made them restore reproductive freedom. | European Society votes not to persecute Hungary for atrocities committed against Serbs, "Giving a rogue state leave to commit genocide as it sees fit." North German delegate bemoans. | Negotiations still underway in Rome, delegates arguing over the extent of indemnities Turkey might be made to pay, lawful status of Turkish collaborators during occupation of Azerbaijan, Cyprus, Syria.
by Thermodolia » Sun Apr 05, 2020 6:55 am
Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States wrote:Thermodolia wrote:The UN already defeats the purpose of the UN
The UN is not perfect, but it does very important work and we would certainly be worse off without them. It has many faults, but they mostly stem from countries not cooperating with the UN, which cannot really be blamed on the UN as a body.
by Thermodolia » Sun Apr 05, 2020 6:58 am
North German Realm wrote:Thermodolia wrote:It was never going to work. Especially not when nations have veto power over everything, and the UN can’t enforce any mandate.
The solution to the veto is a counter-veto. It's very hilarious to me that people didn't add it in some form when they were creating the Security Council. (Either a "another country vetoes your veto" or "the majority of the SC votes against your veto" thing, or something else). Surely they didn't think the five would always agree on every topic?
by North German Realm » Sun Apr 05, 2020 7:04 am
Thermodolia wrote:North German Realm wrote:The solution to the veto is a counter-veto. It's very hilarious to me that people didn't add it in some form when they were creating the Security Council. (Either a "another country vetoes your veto" or "the majority of the SC votes against your veto" thing, or something else). Surely they didn't think the five would always agree on every topic?
The veto was in there because it came out of FDRs four policemen: USA, UK, USSR, and ROC. They where to have overwhelming power over their respective regions of influence.
France was only added at the insistence of De Gaul
5 Nov, 2020
Die Morgenpost: "We will reconsider our relationship with Poland" Reichskanzler Lagenmauer says after Polish president protested North German ultimatum that made them restore reproductive freedom. | European Society votes not to persecute Hungary for atrocities committed against Serbs, "Giving a rogue state leave to commit genocide as it sees fit." North German delegate bemoans. | Negotiations still underway in Rome, delegates arguing over the extent of indemnities Turkey might be made to pay, lawful status of Turkish collaborators during occupation of Azerbaijan, Cyprus, Syria.
by Novus America » Sun Apr 05, 2020 7:10 am
Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States wrote:Nakena wrote:
Funfact that no little amount of the UN member states have a rather poor human right records and a big one in all around douchebaggery.
The UN was once a nice and noble idea, but it has become extremly corrupted.
The primary purpose of the UN has always been peace. Tell me, how is peace helped by the expulsion of a large number of member states? Which, mind, only alienates them further from the other UN goals.
The criticism aimed at the UN is always that it is not perfect in every single way so it should be abolished, giving way to an international order that gave rise to two world wars. Yeah, that system was perfect alright.
The UN exists for the benefit of its members. If members don’t like it anymore, they can leave. Since they don’t, it is clear that there is lasting benefit to the organisation. Which is clear, especially now that the WHO is taking the lead in fighting corona.Shanghai industrial complex wrote:
The EU is just a loose economic cooperation organization. It's not SPQR.The EU is as efficient as the UN.LOL
A sentiment which only shows how little you know about the EU.
by Novus America » Sun Apr 05, 2020 7:13 am
North German Realm wrote:Thermodolia wrote:The veto was in there because it came out of FDRs four policemen: USA, UK, USSR, and ROC. They where to have overwhelming power over their respective regions of influence.
France was only added at the insistence of De Gaul
The fact still remains that the four, if not five, countries could, regardless, not agree on all situations. So what if the US (and the USSR and RoC) really wanted something that the UK really didn't?
by Thermodolia » Sun Apr 05, 2020 7:15 am
North German Realm wrote:Thermodolia wrote:The veto was in there because it came out of FDRs four policemen: USA, UK, USSR, and ROC. They where to have overwhelming power over their respective regions of influence.
France was only added at the insistence of De Gaul
The fact still remains that the four, if not five, countries could, regardless, not agree on all situations. So what if the US (and the USSR and RoC) really wanted something that the UK really didn't?
by Christian Confederation » Sun Apr 05, 2020 7:17 am
by Novus America » Sun Apr 05, 2020 7:23 am
Thermodolia wrote:North German Realm wrote:The fact still remains that the four, if not five, countries could, regardless, not agree on all situations. So what if the US (and the USSR and RoC) really wanted something that the UK really didn't?
The original idea was that there wasn’t going to be a UN. Just those four nations ruling over their respective regions. Also those and only those nations would be allowed to possess anything greater than a rifle
by Christian Confederation » Sun Apr 05, 2020 7:30 am
Novus America wrote:Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States wrote:The primary purpose of the UN has always been peace. Tell me, how is peace helped by the expulsion of a large number of member states? Which, mind, only alienates them further from the other UN goals.
The criticism aimed at the UN is always that it is not perfect in every single way so it should be abolished, giving way to an international order that gave rise to two world wars. Yeah, that system was perfect alright.
The UN exists for the benefit of its members. If members don’t like it anymore, they can leave. Since they don’t, it is clear that there is lasting benefit to the organisation. Which is clear, especially now that the WHO is taking the lead in fighting corona.
A sentiment which only shows how little you know about the EU.
Given the many UN members have fought many wars with many other members if the goal is peace the UN is not getting that.
And the WHO is NOT taking the lead in the Coronavirus case, it is largely marginalized with each country pursuing its own response, often and ignoring the WHO’s advice which changes anyways.
Remember the WHO said “no travel bans” initially, only to be ignored and once the PRC supported travel bans it did too. The WHO is not even run by a real doctor, but some corrupt politician from a regime not surprisingly very close to the PRC.
The WHO has been often ignored and widely criticized, and they deserve that.
But I do agree the question is in the title is over simple. Obviously we need to strengthen some alternatives to the UN that exclude hostile regimes, but the UN would presumably still exist as it does.
Just we need alternatives that work better as well, and those by necessity could not try to shoehorn completely incompatible states into the same box, or they would just end up the same place as the UN.
by Purpelia » Sun Apr 05, 2020 7:33 am
Christian Confederation wrote:One day China may be able to join the WHO health board but as long there a Comunist dictatorship they're bared from joining.
by Vistulange » Sun Apr 05, 2020 7:38 am
Purpelia wrote:Christian Confederation wrote:One day China may be able to join the WHO health board but as long there a Comunist dictatorship they're bared from joining.
So this entire thread is essentially arguing that we should punish a nation of 1.4 billion people for not participating in an organization that is happy to let those 1.4 billion die of disease because they consider human life to be worth less than political disagreement. Am I the only one who sees the idiocy and plain injustice in that? Am I the only one who thinks that this is insanity?
by LimaUniformNovemberAlpha » Sun Apr 05, 2020 7:39 am
Purpelia wrote:Christian Confederation wrote:One day China may be able to join the WHO health board but as long there a Comunist dictatorship they're bared from joining.
So this entire thread is essentially arguing that we should punish a nation of 1.4 billion people for not participating in an organization that is happy to let those 1.4 billion die of disease because they consider human life to be worth less than political disagreement. Am I the only one who sees the idiocy and plain injustice in that? Am I the only one who thinks that this is insanity?
Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:1. The PRC is not a Communist State, as it has shown absolutely zero interest in achieving Communism.
2. The CCP is not a Communist Party, as it has shown absolutely zero interest in achieving Communism.
3. Xi Jinping and his cronies are not Communists, as they have shown absolutely zero interest in achieving Communism.
How do we know this? Because the first step toward Communism is Socialism, and none of the aforementioned are even remotely Socialist in any way, shape, or form.
by Novus America » Sun Apr 05, 2020 7:43 am
Purpelia wrote:Christian Confederation wrote:One day China may be able to join the WHO health board but as long there a Comunist dictatorship they're bared from joining.
So this entire thread is essentially arguing that we should punish a nation of 1.4 billion people for not participating in an organization that is happy to let those 1.4 billion die of disease because they consider human life to be worth less than political disagreement. Am I the only one who sees the idiocy and plain injustice in that? Am I the only one who thinks that this is insanity?
by Novus America » Sun Apr 05, 2020 7:44 am
Vistulange wrote:Purpelia wrote:So this entire thread is essentially arguing that we should punish a nation of 1.4 billion people for not participating in an organization that is happy to let those 1.4 billion die of disease because they consider human life to be worth less than political disagreement. Am I the only one who sees the idiocy and plain injustice in that? Am I the only one who thinks that this is insanity?
Nah, a lot of NSG members in general are okay with dispensing with the well-being of people who they don't feel any personal connection with.
by Vistulange » Sun Apr 05, 2020 7:53 am
Novus America wrote:Vistulange wrote:Nah, a lot of NSG members in general are okay with dispensing with the well-being of people who they don't feel any personal connection with.
Taiwan is not a member of WHO but has much better health, disease control and well being than the PRC, which is a member...
by Novus America » Sun Apr 05, 2020 8:00 am
by Kragholm Free States » Sun Apr 05, 2020 8:12 am
by Vistulange » Sun Apr 05, 2020 8:21 am
by Novus America » Sun Apr 05, 2020 8:27 am
Vistulange wrote:Novus America wrote:
The point is removing the PRC from the WHO would be very unlikely to actually change the well being of the people in the PRC.
That wasn't pointed specifically at the notion of removing the PRC from the WHO; it was more pointed towards the people in NSG who make statements that would, if done in real life, impact the lives of many people in unfortunate ways, with absolutely no regard for this notion. It's try-hard edginess, and it doesn't even look cynical, it just looks out of context and admittedly, a tad funny to see.
by North German Realm » Sun Apr 05, 2020 8:30 am
Thermodolia wrote:North German Realm wrote:The fact still remains that the four, if not five, countries could, regardless, not agree on all situations. So what if the US (and the USSR and RoC) really wanted something that the UK really didn't?
The original idea was that there wasn’t going to be a UN. Just those four nations ruling over their respective regions. Also those and only those nations would be allowed to possess anything greater than a rifle
5 Nov, 2020
Die Morgenpost: "We will reconsider our relationship with Poland" Reichskanzler Lagenmauer says after Polish president protested North German ultimatum that made them restore reproductive freedom. | European Society votes not to persecute Hungary for atrocities committed against Serbs, "Giving a rogue state leave to commit genocide as it sees fit." North German delegate bemoans. | Negotiations still underway in Rome, delegates arguing over the extent of indemnities Turkey might be made to pay, lawful status of Turkish collaborators during occupation of Azerbaijan, Cyprus, Syria.
by Trollzyn the Infinite » Sun Apr 05, 2020 8:52 am
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