Marriage is unnatural.
I'm a monogamist and that's still obvious to me.
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by Cisairse » Sun Apr 05, 2020 11:49 am
by Nakena » Sun Apr 05, 2020 11:50 am
Riria wrote:Sundiata wrote:Noone should have to sell sex to make a living
There are people who would still be upper middle class if they gave up sex work, but still choose to do it. So even the most gracious interpretation of your argument doesn't cover why this would be a universal issue of immorality/depravity.
(yes, this applies less to prostitutes than, say, pornstars, but you get my point)
by Cisairse » Sun Apr 05, 2020 11:50 am
Riria wrote:This might be me showing a bit of a priori bias here, but I would choose money 99/100 times in the specific situation presented in the OP... but would choose love 99/100 times if I'm already in the love scenario (as in, I already have my soulmate, and the decision is about whether I would give that up for tons of money, not necessarily by something horrible happening to my partner, but by my partner suddenly losing romantic interest in me).
But that doesn't make sense if you really think about it. Logically speaking, the finality of both scenarios is perfectly identical, so a perfectly rational person would choose the same path in both (two perfectly rational people can still disagree about option A vs option B, if they have different priors, but they would agree that whatever option you choose, you should choose it twice). I'm not quite sure how to resolve this.
Thoughts?
by Sundiata » Sun Apr 05, 2020 11:54 am
Riria wrote:Sundiata wrote:Noone should have to sell sex to make a living
There are people who would still be upper middle class if they gave up sex work, but still choose to do it. So even the most gracious interpretation of your argument doesn't cover why this would be a universal issue of immorality/depravity.
(yes, this applies less to prostitutes than, say, pornstars, but you get my point)
by Riria » Sun Apr 05, 2020 11:55 am
Nakena wrote:Riria wrote:
There are people who would still be upper middle class if they gave up sex work, but still choose to do it. So even the most gracious interpretation of your argument doesn't cover why this would be a universal issue of immorality/depravity.
(yes, this applies less to prostitutes than, say, pornstars, but you get my point)
Most "pornstars" (except the top 5%) are actually earning the majority of their income as professional escorts.
by Riria » Sun Apr 05, 2020 11:59 am
Cisairse wrote:Yep, this is a very well-studied phenomenon: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endowment_effect
by Sundiata » Sun Apr 05, 2020 12:01 pm
Riria wrote:Nakena wrote:
Most "pornstars" (except the top 5%) are actually earning the majority of their income as professional escorts.
Oh, I know. I'm just saying that even if everyone agreed that "nobody should have to do sex work to make a living", and we designed society in such a way that that would never happen, some sex workers would still exist. Not most, but some. Which makes it not a universal evil in my book.
by Cisairse » Sun Apr 05, 2020 12:04 pm
Sundiata wrote:Riria wrote:
Oh, I know. I'm just saying that even if everyone agreed that "nobody should have to do sex work to make a living", and we designed society in such a way that that would never happen, some sex workers would still exist. Not most, but some. Which makes it not a universal evil in my book.
It's universally evil even if prostitutes don't need to make a living through it but that's the case for a variety of reasons, the most glaring is the degradation of the human person.
by Rojava Free State » Sun Apr 05, 2020 1:05 pm
Nakena wrote:Riria wrote:
There are people who would still be upper middle class if they gave up sex work, but still choose to do it. So even the most gracious interpretation of your argument doesn't cover why this would be a universal issue of immorality/depravity.
(yes, this applies less to prostitutes than, say, pornstars, but you get my point)
Most "pornstars" (except the top 5%) are actually earning the majority of their income as professional escorts.
Rojava Free State wrote:Listen yall. I'm only gonna say it once but I want you to remember it. This ain't a world fit for good men. It seems like you gotta be monstrous just to make it. Gotta have a little bit of darkness within you just to survive. You gotta stoop low everyday it seems like. Stoop all the way down to the devil in these times. And then one day you look in the mirror and you realize that you ain't you anymore. You're just another monster, and thanks to your actions, someone else will eventually become as warped and twisted as you. Never forget that the best of us are just the best of a bad lot. Being at the top of a pile of feces doesn't make you anything but shit like the rest. Never forget that.
by Rojava Free State » Sun Apr 05, 2020 1:08 pm
Rojava Free State wrote:Listen yall. I'm only gonna say it once but I want you to remember it. This ain't a world fit for good men. It seems like you gotta be monstrous just to make it. Gotta have a little bit of darkness within you just to survive. You gotta stoop low everyday it seems like. Stoop all the way down to the devil in these times. And then one day you look in the mirror and you realize that you ain't you anymore. You're just another monster, and thanks to your actions, someone else will eventually become as warped and twisted as you. Never forget that the best of us are just the best of a bad lot. Being at the top of a pile of feces doesn't make you anything but shit like the rest. Never forget that.
by Cisairse » Sun Apr 05, 2020 1:20 pm
The Grims wrote:Rojava Free State wrote:
Honestly I kinda have to agree with him here. I wouldn't say prostitution is 100% degrading but when you pay to have sex with someone, you're kinda treating them like a product and not a person. It's like paying for weed..
No, because they do not trade ownership when you pay. You pay them for a service, just like you would pay a teacher, a musician or a plumber.
by Riria » Sun Apr 05, 2020 1:46 pm
Rojava Free State wrote:Widespread prostitution is usually a sign that something is very wrong with a society and that said society is failing the impoverished.
by Nakena » Sun Apr 05, 2020 1:51 pm
by Rojava Free State » Sun Apr 05, 2020 1:52 pm
Riria wrote:Rojava Free State wrote:Widespread prostitution is usually a sign that something is very wrong with a society and that said society is failing the impoverished.
In which case, what society needs to do is help the impoverished, not address prostitution itself. Banning prostitution would do the opposite of that by even further reducing their options.
Rojava Free State wrote:Listen yall. I'm only gonna say it once but I want you to remember it. This ain't a world fit for good men. It seems like you gotta be monstrous just to make it. Gotta have a little bit of darkness within you just to survive. You gotta stoop low everyday it seems like. Stoop all the way down to the devil in these times. And then one day you look in the mirror and you realize that you ain't you anymore. You're just another monster, and thanks to your actions, someone else will eventually become as warped and twisted as you. Never forget that the best of us are just the best of a bad lot. Being at the top of a pile of feces doesn't make you anything but shit like the rest. Never forget that.
by Riria » Sun Apr 05, 2020 1:56 pm
Rojava Free State wrote:There will always be someone who has sex for money, but when it's thousands or even millions of women in your country, it means your country failed them.
by Rojava Free State » Sun Apr 05, 2020 1:58 pm
Nakena wrote:Rojava Free State wrote:
They're prostitutes?
Pornstars? Yes many of them. Google some of your favorite pornstars name and add escort to it. You'd find their services real fast.
Contrary to popular opinion there isn't a lot of money in the porn business, at least not for the performers. The rise of steaming services changed (and destroyed) wide parts of the Industry. Even back in the days however it was usual that many porn performers work as escorts too. In a way porn productions are another good way to get their name out there etc.
Most of this business is conducted in rental flats specifically rented for this purposes (call-in) or hotels etc (call-out)
Rojava Free State wrote:Listen yall. I'm only gonna say it once but I want you to remember it. This ain't a world fit for good men. It seems like you gotta be monstrous just to make it. Gotta have a little bit of darkness within you just to survive. You gotta stoop low everyday it seems like. Stoop all the way down to the devil in these times. And then one day you look in the mirror and you realize that you ain't you anymore. You're just another monster, and thanks to your actions, someone else will eventually become as warped and twisted as you. Never forget that the best of us are just the best of a bad lot. Being at the top of a pile of feces doesn't make you anything but shit like the rest. Never forget that.
by Rojava Free State » Sun Apr 05, 2020 1:59 pm
Rojava Free State wrote:Listen yall. I'm only gonna say it once but I want you to remember it. This ain't a world fit for good men. It seems like you gotta be monstrous just to make it. Gotta have a little bit of darkness within you just to survive. You gotta stoop low everyday it seems like. Stoop all the way down to the devil in these times. And then one day you look in the mirror and you realize that you ain't you anymore. You're just another monster, and thanks to your actions, someone else will eventually become as warped and twisted as you. Never forget that the best of us are just the best of a bad lot. Being at the top of a pile of feces doesn't make you anything but shit like the rest. Never forget that.
by Vaspelia » Sun Apr 05, 2020 2:00 pm
by Rojava Free State » Sun Apr 05, 2020 2:03 pm
Vaspelia wrote:ok posting on i.m thread because why not
I will pick Love, having someone to cuddle and trust with it's something i really want rn. My concern would be to have enough time to go around but i consider that there a way lot more rl opportunities to gain money than to get love. I'm a NEET irl so i don't even have income anyways.
Rojava Free State wrote:Listen yall. I'm only gonna say it once but I want you to remember it. This ain't a world fit for good men. It seems like you gotta be monstrous just to make it. Gotta have a little bit of darkness within you just to survive. You gotta stoop low everyday it seems like. Stoop all the way down to the devil in these times. And then one day you look in the mirror and you realize that you ain't you anymore. You're just another monster, and thanks to your actions, someone else will eventually become as warped and twisted as you. Never forget that the best of us are just the best of a bad lot. Being at the top of a pile of feces doesn't make you anything but shit like the rest. Never forget that.
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