LWDT IX: Discussing the Left From All Engels

[Liriena]

Well, Le Resistance adds a new focus tree specific to Spain, and adds a couple new outcomes. Anarchist Spain is not the same as democratic or communist Republican Spain anymore. Anarchist Spain is a "non-aligned" commune that can't join any factions but can wage war to "expand" the revolution abroad. Which means that, when the Germans took France and the Benelux, I was allowed to then take France and the Benelux from them, because neither France nor the Benelux are on my side either.

Playing anarchist Spain is basically a free for all.

Ah, that makes sense. Reminds me of my Freegypt campaign right before Man the Guns, where for some unknown reason, the peace deal AI broke and let me take most of everything, including all of France. Now, I was the main force behind kicking Italy's ass, but still, that made no sense.

DIRECT RULE FROM CAIRO

In this playthrough, Italy and Vichy France have long since capitulated but still control almost all of Africa. Japan hecking curbstomped all of China and all of the Asian Allies. The United States had a second civil war which Douglas McArthur's non-aligned Loyalists won after losing like a million people to Roosevelt's Constitutionalists.

Also, now that both Italy and Germany have capitulated, the entire world war now revolves around... ugh... "Greater" Hungary.

[Fahran]

Also, I do wait to see how quickly people jump at you for calling land renting an essential service. I don't entirely agree with the assessment but I do completely understand what you mean by using that term.

It's not really my ideal given that I'd prefer higher rates of home ownership and an end goal somewhat similar to that of distributism but I can appreciate that a lot of land-lords and land-ladies have made an effort to amass the capital to invest in rental properties. Plus I prefer the accommodations they provide over those provided by public housing and homeless shelters. Yes, shelter is necessary to live. So is food. That doesn't mean farmers and butchers are parasites.

[Fahran]

Why is LWDT full of right wingers now

Like the early capitalists seized communal rural land, so too do online right-wingers seize our communal threads.

wut

[Liriena]

Like the early capitalists seized communal rural land, so too do online right-wingers seize our communal threads.

wut

Something I vaguely remember from reading Das Kapital about how communal land, shared between the rural working class in pre-capitalist times, was seized and privatize during capitalism's rise to dominance.

[Shanghai industrial complex]

Started an anarchist Spain walkthrough in HOI4.

Now it's mid 1943 and I've almost unified all of Western Europe (except the Brits and the Irish) under the Global Defence Council. Turns out the key to anarchist success was having a huge airforce to rain freedom^TM upon fascists' tanks.

Were the focuses historical, or did Germany do something weird? Seems odd to conquer fascists but also conquer France.

Over here I still don't have Man the Guns, much less Le Resistance, in part because I grew more interested in EU4 and CK2.

In CK2, I'm addicted to turning the whole world into my blood.In the game, I always get partners who violate the moral standards.LOL,I'm super pervert, but maybe you are too. Because we're also a CK2 player

[Cisairse]

Or we could not call people who provide essential services parasites simply because we're not living in a moneyless society. It leads to dark places.

How on earth is "getting paid rent" an essential service?

[Carvio Saikesenassia]

wut

Something I vaguely remember from reading Das Kapital about how communal land, shared between the rural working class in pre-capitalist times, was seized and privatize during capitalism's rise to dominance.

you're probably referring to the enclosure laws from industrial revolution england, but i dont think you can say seizing == merger of small farms and subsequent sale of the land, especially when it's not expropriation

[Fahran]

How on earth is "getting paid rent" an essential service?

Having a place to live is necessary for good quality of life. The capital to invest in materials, menial labor, skilled labor, and appropriate administrative costs doesn't simply materialize out of the ether. It has to be amassed and invested prudently. You're paying for an essential service when you pay a land-lord or land-lady. You're paying them for shelter. In the same way that you're paying a grocery store for food. Or a doctor/pharmacy for medical treatment.

[Aureumterra]

wut

Something I vaguely remember from reading Das Kapital about how communal land, shared between the rural working class in pre-capitalist times, was seized and privatize during capitalism's rise to dominance.

In pre-capitalist times, land was owned by noble lords and serfs worked on that land. When the Burghers took over, land could be freely traded to anyone

[Cisairse]

How on earth is "getting paid rent" an essential service?

Having a place to live is necessary for good quality of life.

Paying rent is not.

The capital to invest in materials, menial labor, skilled labor, and appropriate administrative costs doesn't simply materialize out of the ether.

Why am I paying some random dude then, and not people who actually built the building I'm in?

It has to be amassed and invested prudently. You're paying for an essential service when you pay a land-lord or land-lady. You're paying them for shelter.

No, apparently I'm paying them to "invest prudently" in materials and skilled labor for them to give to other people to create shelter.

In the same way that you're paying a grocery store for food. Or a doctor/pharmacy for medical treatment.

Farmers actually grow food and then sell it, doctors actually provide me a service that I would not receive if they were not there.
The land will still be there without the lord.

[Shanghai industrial complex]

wut

Something I vaguely remember from reading Das Kapital about how communal land, shared between the rural working class in pre-capitalist times, was seized and privatize during capitalism's rise to dominance.

British enclosure movement?The accumulation of capital in the early days of capitalism is often accompanied by the sufferings of the people.It's because farmers lose their land and factories that they can get enough workers

[Repubblica Fascista Sociale Italiana]

Started an anarchist Spain walkthrough in HOI4.

Now it's mid 1943 and I've almost unified all of Western Europe (except the Brits and the Irish) under the Global Defence Council. Turns out the key to anarchist success was having a huge airforce to rain freedom^TM upon fascists' tanks.

The problem is in real life, "anarchist" countries rarely have a centralized military and get easily crushed by any army

[The Greater Ohio Valley]

I know how a leftist playthrough of HOI4 would be like, but I wonder what a leftist playthrough of Stellaris would be like.

[Punainen Suomi]

I know how a leftist playthrough of HOI4 would be like, but I wonder what a leftist playthrough of Stellaris would be like.

Shared burdens? With Federations you can also push for pro-worker legislation.

[Carvio Saikesenassia]

Paying rent is not.

housing aint free

Why am I paying some random dude then, and not people who actually built the building I'm in?

guess who owns the housing unit

Farmers actually grow food and then sell it, doctors actually provide me a service that I would not receive if they were not there.
The land will still be there without the lord.

added value to land wouldnt, to start with

[Shanghai industrial complex]

I know how a leftist playthrough of HOI4 would be like, but I wonder what a leftist playthrough of Stellaris would be like.

What kind of left?Depending on your choice, there can be slavery, ethnic cleansing, cannibalism, slave trade and destruction of the planet.
And the right can cross species.
Recommended for children over 7 years old

[Fahran]

Paying rent is not.

You have to pay for the services other people provide for you. Even in a stateless, classless, moneyless society, you're probably going to be expected to earn your keep in some way, likely through the provision of labor to the commune.

Why am I paying some random dude then, and not people who actually built the building I'm in?

Because the random dude paid those people to build the building already, because you don't have enough capital to purchase a house outright, and because public housing is generally not the most pleasant and accommodating.

No, apparently I'm paying them to "invest prudently" in materials and skilled labor for them to give to other people to create shelter.

You're paying to use a facility that they own because they spent their money to acquire it.

Farmers actually grow food and then sell it, doctors actually provide me a service that I would not receive if they were not there. The land will still be there without the lord.

But the house/apartment won't be there unless you know how to build it or can pay other people to build it. If you're paying a land-lord or land-lady for shelter, it's a good assumption that you're not capable of doing the aforementioned things. Even in more horizontal economies, the option to pay rent instead of investing in a house is a nice option to have.

[Repubblica Fascista Sociale Italiana]

Fascism as an umbrella term is economically ambiguous.

Fascist countries tend to have corporatist (a type of capitalism)

Corporatism is really its own thing, and I love the concept, only if more leaders had tried to execute it. Salazar did amazingly, one of my favorite people from history, he basically took Mussolini’s idea of fascism and put it to actual use

[Aureumterra]

I still don't understand why people think fascism is right wing

[Carvio Saikesenassia]

I still don't understand why people think fascism is right wing

stems from the dumb, arguably interwar cultured, left-right dichotomy used by 90% of the population where the extremes represent communism and fascism (and the center is muh liberalism)

[The Greater Ohio Valley]

I know how a leftist playthrough of HOI4 would be like, but I wonder what a leftist playthrough of Stellaris would be like.

What kind of left?Depending on your choice, there can be slavery, ethnic cleansing, cannibalism, slave trade and destruction of the planet.
And the right can cross species.
Recommended for children over 7 years old

DemSoc leftist, I don’t think a DemSoc Stellaris empire would do any of those things.

[Bear Stearns]

The land will still be there without the lord.

Right, but would your insulated apartment unit be there?

[Northern Davincia]

People should not pay rent at all, tbh.

It's almost like people should get real work that benefits society instead of leeching off people.

I didn't know you hated welfare so much.

[Carvio Saikesenassia]

After some thought, this is the correct take tbh. People shouldn't be forced to pay rent if they lost their job to a plague.

People should not pay rent at all, tbh.

land and housing is free indeed, costs are a spook

[Shanghai industrial complex]

People should not pay rent at all, tbh.

land and housing is free indeed, costs are a spook

land and housing is free?Where ,tell me where.Is this heaven?