LWDT IX: Discussing the Left From All Engels

[Dumb Ideologies]

The Dutch are the final boss in the War on Drugs. Or is it the War on Clogs? They do so like to leave us tilting at windmills.

[The East Marches II]

I've been to a narco-state with one. I was in Rotterdam some years ago!

Stop lying. I live next to Rotterdam, there are bad neighbourhoods but no no-go zones. But I’m sure a tourist of a week knows the place better than I do.

Also, I love that you keep going out of your way to call the Netherlands a narco state since you found out I live there, even though it isn’t producing the desired effect. You literally cannot make a point without trying to insult someone in the process, and you don’t care to be divorced from reality to do it.

Why wouldn't I call something by it's true name? It's not my fault you live in a narco state yet insist on lecturing to the rest of us about your human rights as lawyers are gunned down in the streets by gangs. Maybe you shouldn't be so blatantly hypocritical? Yes Rotterdam is a shithole, news at 7. We have Detroit.

[The East Marches II]

Claims that The Netherlands are a narco state are defensible though. We are one of, perhaps even the, largest producers of synthetic drugs on the planet. The "mocro maffia" earns billions; the shadow economy of the Netherlands is enormous.

A narco state is not just a country that produces drugs, though. In a narco state, the drug producers have control over all parts of the government, having completely corrupted its institutions with bribes and threats of violence. In a narco state, there isn't only violence between different gangs, but also a war-like footing between gangs and the government. The assassination of Dirk Wiersum was a travesty, but a rare one. In a narco state, people like him are gunned down every week. The Dutch government has total control over its institutions, however, so calling it a narco state would be way off. There is a drug problem, but a drug problem does not a narco state make.

The BBC said you are basically one. Your government is so weak and pathetic, they don't need to bomb city blocs like Escobar, people like you already surrendered. Then again the Dutch government structure isn't known for strength, we saw how much strength they showed in Bosnia afterall. Perhaps we should known they'd let the drug lord's and human traffickers run the show so long they can lecture Portugal on its budget deficit and larp about human rights matters. It's even more pathetic than the actual narco-states.

Edit: spelling

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

Stop lying. I live next to Rotterdam, there are bad neighbourhoods but no no-go zones. But I’m sure a tourist of a week knows the place better than I do.

Also, I love that you keep going out of your way to call the Netherlands a narco state since you found out I live there, even though it isn’t producing the desired effect. You literally cannot make a point without trying to insult someone in the process, and you don’t care to be divorced from reality to do it.

Why wouldn't I call something by it's true name? It's not my fault you live in a narco state yet insist on lecturing to the rest of us about your human rights as lawyers are gunned down in the streets by gangs. Maybe you shouldn't be so blatantly hypocritical? Yes Rotterdam is a shithole, news at 7. We have Detroit.

Detroit and Rotterdam do not even begin to compare in terms of crime statistics, and 5 seconds of googling would have told you that.

Yeah, call things by its name. And if you knew what a narco state was, you would not call the Netherlands one.

So, if I understand you correctly... a lawyer was shot, so I don’t get to have an opinion on human rights? That’s rich.

A narco state is not just a country that produces drugs, though. In a narco state, the drug producers have control over all parts of the government, having completely corrupted its institutions with bribes and threats of violence. In a narco state, there isn't only violence between different gangs, but also a war-like footing between gangs and the government. The assassination of Dirk Wiersum was a travesty, but a rare one. In a narco state, people like him are gunned down every week. The Dutch government has total control over its institutions, however, so calling it a narco state would be way off. There is a drug problem, but a drug problem does not a narco state make.

The BBC said you are basically one. Your government is so weak and pathetic, they don't need to bomb city blocs like Esobar, people like you already surrendered. Then again the Dutch government structure isn't known for strength, we saw how much strength they showed in Bosnia afterall. Perhaps we should known they'd let the drug lord's and human traffickers run the show so long they can lecture Portugal on its budget deficit and larp about human rights matters.

If you’re going for shock value, then perhaps. But at this point, you’re not trying to make a point, are you? I mean, it’s kind of weak to form your whole opinion around something based on what you think will get people upset. The sad thing is, I don’t think you realize how unconvincing your spiel is, because if you knew, you would have stopped by now.

But don’t let that stop you! It’s at least entertaining.

[Nakena]

I've been to a narco-state with one. I was in Rotterdam some years ago!

Stop lying. I live next to Rotterdam, there are bad neighbourhoods but no no-go zones. But I’m sure a tourist of a week knows the place better than I do.

Also, I love that you keep going out of your way to call the Netherlands a narco state since you found out I live there, even though it isn’t producing the desired effect. You literally cannot make a point without trying to insult someone in the process, and you don’t care to be divorced from reality to do it.

I always was under the impression you were an former student of international law living in Glasgow who in lieu of finding a job in his discipline had to enter the kebab business.

Either as clerk, franchise taker or as entrepreneur himself.

[The Alma Mater]

A narco state is not just a country that produces drugs, though. In a narco state, the drug producers have control over all parts of the government, having completely corrupted its institutions with bribes and threats of violence. In a narco state, there isn't only violence between different gangs, but also a war-like footing between gangs and the government. The assassination of Dirk Wiersum was a travesty, but a rare one. In a narco state, people like him are gunned down every week. The Dutch government has total control over its institutions, however, so calling it a narco state would be way off. There is a drug problem, but a drug problem does not a narco state make.

The BBC said you are basically one. Your government is so weak and pathetic, they don't need to bomb city blocs like Escobar, people like you already surrendered. Then again the Dutch government structure isn't known for strength, we saw how much strength they showed in Bosnia afterall. Perhaps we should known they'd let the drug lord's and human traffickers run the show so long they can lecture Portugal on its budget deficit and larp about human rights matters. It's even more pathetic than the actual narco-states.

Sounds like an excellent and profitable idea. Lets do it

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

Stop lying. I live next to Rotterdam, there are bad neighbourhoods but no no-go zones. But I’m sure a tourist of a week knows the place better than I do.

Also, I love that you keep going out of your way to call the Netherlands a narco state since you found out I live there, even though it isn’t producing the desired effect. You literally cannot make a point without trying to insult someone in the process, and you don’t care to be divorced from reality to do it.

I always was under the impression you were an former student of international law living in Glasgow who in lieu of finding a job in his discipline had to enter the kebab business.

Either as clerk, franchise taker or as entrepreneur himself.

I like this origin story. If I ever need to escape custody, I will adopt it.

But no, I read law at Leiden and am now working in my field, advising the Ministry of Justice with regards to extradition and international assistance in criminal affairs.

[Rojava Free State]

A narco state is not just a country that produces drugs, though. In a narco state, the drug producers have control over all parts of the government, having completely corrupted its institutions with bribes and threats of violence. In a narco state, there isn't only violence between different gangs, but also a war-like footing between gangs and the government. The assassination of Dirk Wiersum was a travesty, but a rare one. In a narco state, people like him are gunned down every week. The Dutch government has total control over its institutions, however, so calling it a narco state would be way off. There is a drug problem, but a drug problem does not a narco state make.

The BBC said you are basically one. Your government is so weak and pathetic, they don't need to bomb city blocs like Escobar, people like you already surrendered. Then again the Dutch government structure isn't known for strength, we saw how much strength they showed in Bosnia afterall. Perhaps we should known they'd let the drug lord's and human traffickers run the show so long they can lecture Portugal on its budget deficit and larp about human rights matters. It's even more pathetic than the actual narco-states.

Edit: spelling

The Netherlands is not a narco state. The level of violence and corruption needed to call a nation by that term isn't there.

Venezuela is a narco state. Mexico is a narco state. Colombia is a narco state. America may or may not be a narco state. The Netherlands isn't. The closest country in Europe that might be a narco state is Albania.

[Washington Resistance Army]

The BBC said you are basically one. Your government is so weak and pathetic, they don't need to bomb city blocs like Escobar, people like you already surrendered. Then again the Dutch government structure isn't known for strength, we saw how much strength they showed in Bosnia afterall. Perhaps we should known they'd let the drug lord's and human traffickers run the show so long they can lecture Portugal on its budget deficit and larp about human rights matters. It's even more pathetic than the actual narco-states.

Edit: spelling

The Netherlands is not a narco state. The level of violence and corruption needed to call a nation by that term isn't there.

Venezuela is a narco state. Mexico is a narco state. Colombia is a narco state. America may or may not be a narco state. The Netherlands isn't. The closest country in Europe that might be a narco state is Albania.

You don't need high levels of open violence to be a narco state.

[Rojava Free State]

The Netherlands is not a narco state. The level of violence and corruption needed to call a nation by that term isn't there.

Venezuela is a narco state. Mexico is a narco state. Colombia is a narco state. America may or may not be a narco state. The Netherlands isn't. The closest country in Europe that might be a narco state is Albania.

You don't need high levels of open violence to be a narco state.

Jesus christ. Alright I'm gonna move the netherlands from my not a narco state list to "maybe a narco state" list.

[The Alma Mater]

You don't need high levels of open violence to be a narco state.

Jesus christ. Alright I'm gonna move the netherlands from my not a narco state list to "maybe a narco state" list.

And the worst part: instead of offering help to fight this crime, other EU countries are demanding the Dutch give them all their money

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

The Netherlands is not a narco state. The level of violence and corruption needed to call a nation by that term isn't there.

Venezuela is a narco state. Mexico is a narco state. Colombia is a narco state. America may or may not be a narco state. The Netherlands isn't. The closest country in Europe that might be a narco state is Albania.

You don't need high levels of open violence to be a narco state.

Yeah, police here are always predicting that the Netherlands will slide into some sort of criminal anarchy. This week, it's drugs. Next week, it'll be financial crimes. The week after, it'll be IT. In the end, the police always ask for more funds, more and deadlier weapons, and expanded powers. I would take police warnings in the Netherlands with a grain of salt, because they have a history of very much trying to influence Dutch politics as an institution.

[Valrifell]

You don't need high levels of open violence to be a narco state.

Jesus christ. Alright I'm gonna move the netherlands from my not a narco state list to "maybe a narco state" list.

Opinions lightly held, eh?

[Washington Resistance Army]

You don't need high levels of open violence to be a narco state.

Yeah, police here are always predicting that the Netherlands will slide into some sort of criminal anarchy. This week, it's drugs. Next week, it'll be financial crimes. The week after, it'll be IT. In the end, the police always ask for more funds, more and deadlier weapons, and expanded powers. I would take police warnings in the Netherlands with a grain of salt, because they have a history of very much trying to influence Dutch politics as an institution.

Idk man, if you're continually getting these warnings maybe your country actually is becoming a crime infested hellhole and it's not just a police conspiracy. You shouldn't aspire to be like the southside of Chicago, people giving up on reporting crimes and police not responding to them leads to nothing but tragedy.

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

Yeah, police here are always predicting that the Netherlands will slide into some sort of criminal anarchy. This week, it's drugs. Next week, it'll be financial crimes. The week after, it'll be IT. In the end, the police always ask for more funds, more and deadlier weapons, and expanded powers. I would take police warnings in the Netherlands with a grain of salt, because they have a history of very much trying to influence Dutch politics as an institution.

Idk man, if you're continually getting these warnings maybe your country actually is becoming a crime infested hellhole and it's not just a police conspiracy. You shouldn't aspire to be like the southside of Chicago, people giving up on reporting crimes and police not responding to them leads to nothing but tragedy.

There's a lot of drug crime in the Netherlands, that's for sure. Especially in the south. And something should be done to combat this, preferably more resources for local police forces and the local judiciary.

But come on, having drug crime does not turn a country into a narco state. Every country has a drug problem. Compared to its neighbours, the Netherlands has a bigger drug problem, but the attention it's getting is not earned when compared to similar problems in surrounding countries.

[Nap the Magnificent]

I've been to a narco-state with one. I was in Rotterdam some years ago!

Stop lying. I live next to Rotterdam, there are bad neighbourhoods but no no-go zones. But I’m sure a tourist of a week knows the place better than I do.

Also, I love that you keep going out of your way to call the Netherlands a narco state since you found out I live there, even though it isn’t producing the desired effect. You literally cannot make a point without trying to insult someone in the process, and you don’t care to be divorced from reality to do it.

Because it is a narco-state. Your own police services have admitted as much. Just because it doesn't have the crime of Mexico, doesn't mean it isn't a narco-state. Panama under Noriega wasn't Mexico tier either in terms of violence but it was still a narco-state. It's fueling a lot of the more legitimate aspects of the Dutch economy and has for a long time because most Dutch politicians are either too stupid, too naive, too weak or some combination thereof to do anything about it. Even if you aren't one yet, you'll be one before the decade is out if things continue.

[Nap the Magnificent]

Lets not forget the other major crime the Netherlands has a problem with, which is human trafficking.

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

Stop lying. I live next to Rotterdam, there are bad neighbourhoods but no no-go zones. But I’m sure a tourist of a week knows the place better than I do.

Also, I love that you keep going out of your way to call the Netherlands a narco state since you found out I live there, even though it isn’t producing the desired effect. You literally cannot make a point without trying to insult someone in the process, and you don’t care to be divorced from reality to do it.

Because it is a narco-state. Your own police services have admitted as much. Just because it doesn't have the crime of Mexico, doesn't mean it isn't a narco-state. Panama under Noriega wasn't Mexico tier either in terms of violence but it was still a narco-state. It's fueling a lot of the more legitimate aspects of the Dutch economy and has for a long time because most Dutch politicians are either too stupid, too naive, too weak or some combination thereof to do anything about it. Even if you aren't one yet, you'll be one before the decade is out if things continue.

I have talked about all of these points already, so I'll just point that out and be done with it.

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

Conservatives when asked about raising the minimum wage in 2016: No! We can't do that beacuse it would cause inflation!

Conservatives when there corporate donors need a bailout from a massive economic recession in 2020:

[Nap the Magnificent]

Because it is a narco-state. Your own police services have admitted as much. Just because it doesn't have the crime of Mexico, doesn't mean it isn't a narco-state. Panama under Noriega wasn't Mexico tier either in terms of violence but it was still a narco-state. It's fueling a lot of the more legitimate aspects of the Dutch economy and has for a long time because most Dutch politicians are either too stupid, too naive, too weak or some combination thereof to do anything about it. Even if you aren't one yet, you'll be one before the decade is out if things continue.

I have talked about all of these points already, so I'll just point that out and be done with it.

Yes I see you opted to just go "Well they're wrong". Maybe if the Netherlands keeps getting these kinds of warnings and starts slowly actually seeing the kinds of things that happen in Mexico, such as severed heads being left out on full display or lawyers being openly gunned down by gangsters, it's time to start taking them seriously.

[Baltenstein]

The BBC said you are basically one. Your government is so weak and pathetic, they don't need to bomb city blocs like Escobar, people like you already surrendered. Then again the Dutch government structure isn't known for strength, we saw how much strength they showed in Bosnia afterall. Perhaps we should known they'd let the drug lord's and human traffickers run the show so long they can lecture Portugal on its budget deficit and larp about human rights matters. It's even more pathetic than the actual narco-states.

Edit: spelling

The Netherlands is not a narco state. The level of violence and corruption needed to call a nation by that term isn't there.

Venezuela is a narco state. Mexico is a narco state. Colombia is a narco state. America may or may not be a narco state. The Netherlands isn't. The closest country in Europe that might be a narco state is Albania.

From what I've heard from my half-Colombian/half-Venezuelan ex-GF, Colombia has improved immensely in that regard. The Farc laid down its arms, kidnappings have gone down, and the drug trade has largely moved to Venezuela and Mexico.

[Aureumterra]

Conservatives when asked about raising the minimum wage in 2016: No! We can't do that beacuse it would cause inflation!

Conservatives when there corporate donors need a bailout from a massive economic recession in 2020:

Nice strawman

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

I have talked about all of these points already, so I'll just point that out and be done with it.

Yes I see you opted to just go "Well they're wrong". Maybe if the Netherlands keeps getting these kinds of warnings and starts slowly actually seeing the kinds of things that happen in Mexico, such as severed heads being left out on full display or lawyers being openly gunned down by gangsters, it's time to start taking them seriously.

Before it becomes a narco state, you mean?

Conservatives when asked about raising the minimum wage in 2016: No! We can't do that beacuse it would cause inflation!

Conservatives when there corporate donors need a bailout from a massive economic recession in 2020:

Nice strawman

A strawman is the creation of a position that someone has not actually held. You are probably familiar with the concept.

However, these really are two republican lines: they are both bailing out big companies, and argue that minimum wage increases lead to inflation. Accurately putting two positions next to one another is not a strawman.

[Nap the Magnificent]

Conservatives when asked about raising the minimum wage in 2016: No! We can't do that beacuse it would cause inflation!

Conservatives when there corporate donors need a bailout from a massive economic recession in 2020:

Nice strawman

It isn't really a straw man lol.

Though I will say that this whole thing showed what a bunch of broke ass bitches many companies and landlords are.

[Loben The 2nd]

Nice strawman

It isn't really a straw man lol.

Though I will say that this whole thing showed what a bunch of broke ass bitches many companies and landlords are.

I Hate landlords