Hungarian democracy in quarantine?

[Vassenor]

It takes a special kind of idiot to engage in a political struggle in times of life and death. And sadly that is at show here. The EU has shown a consistent pattern of using any and all excuses they can find to attack those among their ranks that they perceive as the enemy. And with their defiance of EU decisions such as those relating to the migrant crisis Hungary is right near the top of that list.

To anyone living in Europe and looking at the news this sort of thing is absolutely nothing new.

So what makes this change a good thing, and how is the EU making it up to attack him?

[Purpelia]

Hey, I'm from hungry Hungary.

Orban is your average post-soviet politician, all talk no action. I don't like him, a lot of people dont like him, but the opposition is so bad that he's pretty much the only choice here. Orban is definately not your democratic reformer, but he is no palpatine or trump. People like to demonize him in the EU and the states to divert attention from their own crooked business. Hungary is LESS authoritarian then most western countries. We dont imprison or extradite whistleblowers, no mass surveillance or war on drugs, no blocked websites, heck, software and movie piracy is rampant.

Sure, he's corrupt, his party is getting very rich from his 3rd term, but he's not a neo-liberal sellout, he's not using the pandemic to give trillions in handouts to billionares, and also he doesn't really have any kind of insurance of winning the next election. Voters can swing really fast in this country. If he fucks up the crisis, he can look for a new job, so the government here is taking this seriously, although so far it doesn't seem like they've been effective at combatting the virus in its early stage.

Now, about the bill, its not at all significant given that he could pretty much pass anything he wanted anyway:

(Image)

Its not so much rule by decree as him invoking the defense productiona act. Its not like Orban has killer drones assasinating people he doesn't like. That is reserved for "democratic countries".

So it's not authoritarian to give yourself an unlimited and indefinite power to bypass the legislature. Also loving the repeated invocations of "and you are lynching negroes" in this post.

You are aware of the concept of a state of emergency right? It is completely normal and permitted in most democratic systems for the leadership to assume basically unlimited (although restricted by the constitution and specific laws regarding that exact situation) powers in situations of national emergency and suspend democracy until the situation is resolved. This is a no cause for alarm but a desirable feature and one being exploited by every sensible nation right now.

There is a time for debate, for freedom, for democracy and liberty and all that. But it's not when quick actions are required to stop people dying.

[Vassenor]

So it's not authoritarian to give yourself an unlimited and indefinite power to bypass the legislature. Also loving the repeated invocations of "and you are lynching negroes" in this post.

You are aware of the concept of a state of emergency right? It is completely normal and permitted in most democratic systems for the leadership to assume basically unlimited (although restricted by the constitution and specific laws regarding that exact situation) powers in situations of national emergency and suspend democracy until the situation is resolved. This is a no cause for alarm but a desirable feature and one being exploited by every sensible nation right now.

There is a time for debate, for freedom, for democracy and liberty and all that. But it's not when quick actions are required to stop people dying.

So how come every other nation on the planet is managing through this crisis without passing an indefinite and unlimited rule by decree power?

[Nakena]

What would be the last?

Genocide & world domination

Oh noes.

First Corona...

...and now The Magyar Horses arises!

[Aureumterra]

Fuck him if he tries to pull a Putin, democracy must be enshrined in law and any attempts at sabotaging it need to be violently overthrown

[Swindenland]

I suggest we kick all Eastern European countries out of the EU except for Slovenia and the Czech Republic

The EU won't exactly prosper with the morally (and soon fiscally) bankrupt Western ones either.

Now I don't want to sound like a nationalist, but Slovenia and to some extent the Czech Republic are the only Eastern European nations that are compatible with Western European countries and their values. We have always had the best industry, best education, best literature and are the most secular when compared to our misfortunate brothers in the East and South.

The problem is that the EU is all about nations who share similar values, sure you might say the EU is evil and such, and you have all the right to do so, but then don't beg for EU money. Hungary gets a shitton of cash from Brussels and in return they whine about how they have to respect freedoms, rights and equality. Fuck Hungary, all this money could go to countries which actually cooperate with the EU - like Slovenia. In the end it is not Germany or Hungary that gets fucked, but little old Slovenia. I'm completely okay with Hungary becoming Hanibal 2.0.1, but then please leave. Leave.

And about Hungary and its appereant liberalism. Slovenia stright-up allows piracy, nobody uses Netflix, because you watch everything for free on public Wi-Fi, drugs are de-facto legal, there are no blocked websites, our whole intelligence agency is on strike and is not persecuted, and yet Slovenia doesn't arrest its journalists, we have a rich multi-party democracy, non-biased public broadcasters and everything non-Hungary. So just fuck off with your Vatican propaganda.

[Dumb Ideologies]

sounds perfectly reasonable to me

[Giovenith]

The EU won't exactly prosper with the morally (and soon fiscally) bankrupt Western ones either.

Now I don't want to sound like a nationalist, but Slovenia and to some extent the Czech Republic are the only Eastern European nations that are compatible with Western European countries and their values. We have always had the best industry, best education, best literature and are the most secular when compared to our misfortunate brothers in the East and South.

The problem is that the EU is all about nations who share similar values, sure you might say the EU is evil and such, and you have all the right to do so, but then don't beg for EU money. Hungary gets a shitton of cash from Brussels and in return they whine about how they have to respect freedoms, rights and equality. Fuck Hungary, all this money could go to countries which actually cooperate with the EU - like Slovenia. In the end it is not Germany or Hungary that gets fucked, but little old Slovenia. I'm completely okay with Hungary becoming Hanibal 2.0.1, but then please leave. Leave.

And about Hungary and its appereant liberalism. Slovenia stright-up allows piracy, nobody uses Netflix, because you watch everything for free on public Wi-Fi, drugs are de-facto legal, there are no blocked websites, our whole intelligence agency is on strike and is not persecuted, and yet Slovenia doesn't arrest its journalists, we have a rich multi-party democracy, non-biased public broadcasters and everything non-Hungary. So just fuck off with your Vatican propaganda.

*** Warned for Trolling/Flaming ***

There are ways to express your positions without resorting to personal attacks, no matter how strongly you feel about them. Take a moment today to review the rules about how to do that.

[Swindenland]

Now I don't want to sound like a nationalist, but Slovenia and to some extent the Czech Republic are the only Eastern European nations that are compatible with Western European countries and their values. We have always had the best industry, best education, best literature and are the most secular when compared to our misfortunate brothers in the East and South.

The problem is that the EU is all about nations who share similar values, sure you might say the EU is evil and such, and you have all the right to do so, but then don't beg for EU money. Hungary gets a shitton of cash from Brussels and in return they whine about how they have to respect freedoms, rights and equality. Fuck Hungary, all this money could go to countries which actually cooperate with the EU - like Slovenia. In the end it is not Germany or Hungary that gets fucked, but little old Slovenia. I'm completely okay with Hungary becoming Hanibal 2.0.1, but then please leave. Leave.

And about Hungary and its appereant liberalism. Slovenia stright-up allows piracy, nobody uses Netflix, because you watch everything for free on public Wi-Fi, drugs are de-facto legal, there are no blocked websites, our whole intelligence agency is on strike and is not persecuted, and yet Slovenia doesn't arrest its journalists, we have a rich multi-party democracy, non-biased public broadcasters and everything non-Hungary. So just fuck off with your Vatican propaganda.

*** Warned for Trolling/Flaming ***

There are ways to express your positions without resorting to personal attacks, no matter how strongly you feel about them. Take a moment today to review the rules about how to do that.

Yeah, I apologise, I went a bit too far.

[The Narnian Council]

To anyone living in Europe and looking at the news this sort of thing is absolutely nothing new.

I am said person. This is new.

I'd also like to see the Polish reaction. Will there be a domino effect?

So the consequences need to be tough. Cut the transfers, as our Slovenian friend suggested? Whatever it is - I believe it merits a concerted response for once, which will likely occur.

[Risottia]

Any articles that don't have a paywall?

Also, you'll want to beef up your OP.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-52095500

[Risottia]

Fuck him if he tries to pull a Putin, democracy must be enshrined in law and any attempts at sabotaging it need to be violently overthrown

He isn't pulling a Putin. He's just overhitlered Hitler - even the Enabling Act of 1933 had a time limit. This one hasn't got one.

[Risottia]

It takes a special kind of idiot to engage in a political struggle in times of life and death. And sadly that is at show here. The EU has shown a consistent pattern of using any and all excuses they can find to attack those among their ranks that they perceive as the enemy. And with their defiance of EU decisions such as those relating to the migrant crisis Hungary is right near the top of that list.

To anyone living in Europe and looking at the news this sort of thing is absolutely nothing new.

Sorry, a clear-cut dictatorship in the EU ranks is rather new.
We should just kick Hungary out of both EU and CoE, and let Budapest beg for the help of the Russians.

[New Bremerton]

Orban's gone too far this time.

[Pulsroth]

Orban's gone too far this time.

I must say, I admired Orban when I first started looking into Hungarian politics a few years ago.

Especially because despite him being somewhat of an authoritarian, his economic and social stances are exactly what I like, but even I'd agree with you now.

[Nakena]

It takes a special kind of idiot to engage in a political struggle in times of life and death. And sadly that is at show here. The EU has shown a consistent pattern of using any and all excuses they can find to attack those among their ranks that they perceive as the enemy. And with their defiance of EU decisions such as those relating to the migrant crisis Hungary is right near the top of that list.

To anyone living in Europe and looking at the news this sort of thing is absolutely nothing new.

Sorry, a clear-cut dictatorship in the EU ranks is rather new.
We should just kick Hungary out of both EU and CoE, and let Budapest beg for the help of the Russians.

Welcome to the World under Corona.

Besides at least now you have a proper Bogey, the one you always wanted.

[Bear Stearns]

Didn't Macron basically get these same powers in France?

[Nakena]

Didn't Macron basically get these same powers in France?

He sort of had them to begin with. The 5th Republic has an very strong presidency.

[Bear Stearns]

Didn't Macron basically get these same powers in France?

He sort of had them to begin with. The 5th Republic has an very strong presidency.

Well given the way he treated the Yellow Vests, the people kvetching about Hungary should probably look at France for setting precedent.

[Vassenor]

He sort of had them to begin with. The 5th Republic has an very strong presidency.

Well given the way he treated the Yellow Vests, the people kvetching about Hungary should probably look at France for setting precedent.

So how does France have an indefinite and unlimited rule-by-decree power?

[SD_Film Artists]

Other than the no time limit on emergency powers, it all sounds very reasonable.

[Trollzyn the Infinite]

Personally I'm going to hold my breath and see what happens. I don't know much about Orban other than that he's corrupt and nationalistic, but that alone isn't enough to guarantee this will be the end of Hungarian democracy as we know it. Let's just wait and see what happens first.

The only saving grace of the US right now is that where Trump isn't a genius, he's an undeniable moron.

Indeed. A more intelligent authoritarian could probably be more problematic for our institutions.

Bloomberg. The person you're thinking of is Mike Bloomberg.

Let's pray he never gets in office.

[SD_Film Artists]

I don't know much about Orban

It's a French cartoon from the 2010's, it's pretty good actually.

Let's just wait and see what happens first.

Or we could just wildly speculate. That normaly works.

[Major-Tom]

Can we please stop acting as if Hungary is the worst rights offender in the EU?

Uhhh, they are? Like, objectively, they score lowest in terms of all around democratic freedoms.

[Purple Rats]

I suggest we kick all Eastern European countries out of the EU except for Slovenia and the Czech Republic

Our right-wing government members would be so happy about it.

Oh, wait. No. then they would get pissed off, because EU "kicked us out", they would wanna leave themselves.

(not from Hungary, just eastern european)