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What age should people get their first cell phones?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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What age?

7 or under
8
6%
8-9
5
4%
10-11
19
14%
12-13
44
33%
14-15
28
21%
16-17
18
14%
18-20
4
3%
21+ or never
7
5%
 
Total votes : 133

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Narland
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Postby Narland » Tue Mar 31, 2020 9:46 am

Depends on the child, and the parents, where they live, and the like. But as a general rule of thumb is progressively adding more responsibility, freedom and access.

Start with a dumb-phone (as soon as the child is responsible enough to use it correctly) limited to emergency services, family members and trusted adults.
Let the child add friends, and schoolmates as the child gains understanding and responsibility. Limited internet access would be reserved for home and school pc.

Once the child has learned to handle the responsibility of chores, and has learned to handle the basic hazards of friendship, allow some self-autonomy with friend contacts, limited internet access on the device (walled garden for music and web). But allow social media contacts only on home pc to learn how to engage responsibly.

Once the child has learned to handle the responsibilities of summer employment, driving responsibly (driving age here starts at 14), and has started to engage in civic behaviour (scouts, 4-h, ffa, camp counsellor etc) and if the child wants to, allow them to buy their own smart cell phone and pay for with internet service let them, provisionally.

If my child is capable and not ready to leave home (or at least well prepared) to become a productive member of society between 16-18 -- including a smart cell phone, but all they need is the schooling, I have failed myself in my duties as a parent.
Last edited by Narland on Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:03 am, edited 3 times in total.

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The Free Joy State
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Postby The Free Joy State » Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:05 am

Cekoviu wrote:
The Free Joy State wrote:It would depend on the individual child (their needs, their maturity).

For most children, when they're going into high school (so 11/12, depending on the country) would be an appropriate time to give them an inexpensive, sturdy phone (one where it wouldn't matter too much if it got broken or lost) so they can stay in touch while out with or going to be late or ask permission to go to a friend's house after school.

Some children -- for example, children who have to travel long distances to school at a younger age or children with some medical conditions -- may require a (very) basic phone several years younger.

All-singing, all-dancing phones that can download the greatest hits, do your taxes and tell you the current temperature on the opposite side of the Moon... I think teenagers should save up their allowance money (and birthday/Christmas money) and buy them for themselves.

er, high school at 11/12?

In the UK, 11 is when we go to High School; I thought it was 12 for Junior High in the States :?:

Diopolis wrote:
Cekoviu wrote:er, high school at 11/12?

I mean, that's when Americans start junior high school.

Ah, so I wasn't completely wrong then.
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Postby Cekoviu » Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:08 am

The Free Joy State wrote:
Cekoviu wrote:er, high school at 11/12?

In the UK, 11 is when we go to High School; I thought it was 12 for Junior High in the States :?:

Yeah, we just don't call junior high "high school" (at least around here).
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Postby North German Realm » Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:11 am

The moment that they are out of direct contact with their parents for more than 6 hours. So either 7 or 11, depending on whether primary school counts, but no later than 11.
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Postby The Free Joy State » Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:13 am

Cekoviu wrote:
The Free Joy State wrote:In the UK, 11 is when we go to High School; I thought it was 12 for Junior High in the States :?:

Yeah, we just don't call junior high "high school" (at least around here).

It's confusing for a Brit.

Here, we have Primary School (4-11) and High School (11-16/19 if there's further education attached -- i.e. a Sixth Form; or is the minimum leaving age 17 now...)
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Postby Cisairse » Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:33 am

The Free Joy State wrote:
Cekoviu wrote:er, high school at 11/12?

In the UK, 11 is when we go to High School; I thought it was 12 for Junior High in the States :?:


Whenever I heard the term "Junior High" I assume the person isn't from America...maybe it's a regional thing, but where I'm from we call it "Middle School."
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Cisairse
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Postby Cisairse » Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:35 am

The Free Joy State wrote:
Cekoviu wrote:Yeah, we just don't call junior high "high school" (at least around here).

It's confusing for a Brit.

Here, we have Primary School (4-11) and High School (11-16/19 if there's further education attached -- i.e. a Sixth Form; or is the minimum leaving age 17 now...)


Yeah here it's elementary school/grade school is 1st through 6th grade, middle school is 7th and 8th, and high school is 9th-12th. Generally you start when you're five or six years old, graduating from HS when you're 17 or 18; kindergarten precedes elementary school, and generally one year of pre-k/preschool precedes kindergarten.
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Narland
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Postby Narland » Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:42 am

Most American Public Schools:

Schools with a Junior High
6 years of Elementary School (Primary Education) -- Grades 1-6 -- usually start at 6 or 7 years old (kids born in November and December)
2 years of Junior High School (Secondary Education) -- Grades 7-8 -- usually 13-14 years old (some 15 y.o.)
4 years of High School (also confusingly a part of Secondary Education) -- Grades 9 -12 usually 15 - 18 years old (some 19 y. o.)

Schools with a Middle School
6 years of Elementary School (Primary Education) -- Grades 1-6 -- usually start at 6 or 7 years old
3 years of Middle School (Secondary Education) -- Grades 7-9 -- usually 13-15 years old (some 16 y.o.)
3 years of High School (also confusingly a part of Secondary Education) -- Grades 10 -12 usually 16 - 18 years old (some 19 y. o.)

***I went to lunch before posting so it might be a bit late in the thread.***
Last edited by Narland on Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Purple Rats » Tue Mar 31, 2020 11:14 am

Diopolis wrote:
Purple Rats wrote:Question to those, who think kids don't need phone, before teenager:

1. What is this kid suppose to do, when they wanna go somewhere after school? With a phone it's simple "Hey, I will go to ...."
2. What is the parent suppose to do, when there is time arriving when kid normally would arrive to home, but for some reason does not....
3. Kid is outside, parent is changing their plan, and want to take kid with them somewhere, how they are get their kid?

Also if someone is missing, who is friend with your kid, their parents could call you, so you can call your kid and ask maybe they are with them.

1. Ask their parent, like anyone else. Maybe he could borrow someone else's phone.
2. Wait a few minutes, it's probably nothing. Eventually go looking.
3. Go walk over and talk to him, we don't walk enough nowadays anyway.


"go looking"- it's way easier to call, than wonder around in city, isn't it?
Why borrow a phone, when they can just call? Or "ask parent"- coming home, then ask can they go somewhere- it takes time, instead they can just call "I will be late, I will go to___"
"go walk over" is easy, if you know exactly where your kid is, but kid can be anywhere- playground, friends house, shop.

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Postby Asle Leopolka » Tue Mar 31, 2020 2:54 pm

Cell phone? It really depends. If you do daycare of other after school activities I see no problem with having one.

Smartphones, on the other hand, are a completely different can of worms. Not because of the price or needlessness of them, but because of how god damn horrible social media is.
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Postby The Strangers Club » Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:02 pm

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provided of course this is at no cost to their parents.

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Postby Ghost Land » Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:21 pm

Narland wrote:Most American Public Schools:

Schools with a Junior High
6 years of Elementary School (Primary Education) -- Grades 1-6 -- usually start at 6 or 7 years old (kids born in November and December)
2 years of Junior High School (Secondary Education) -- Grades 7-8 -- usually 13-14 years old (some 15 y.o.)
4 years of High School (also confusingly a part of Secondary Education) -- Grades 9 -12 usually 15 - 18 years old (some 19 y. o.)

Schools with a Middle School
6 years of Elementary School (Primary Education) -- Grades 1-6 -- usually start at 6 or 7 years old
3 years of Middle School (Secondary Education) -- Grades 7-9 -- usually 13-15 years old (some 16 y.o.)
3 years of High School (also confusingly a part of Secondary Education) -- Grades 10 -12 usually 16 - 18 years old (some 19 y. o.)

***I went to lunch before posting so it might be a bit late in the thread.***

You forgot kindergarten.

Elementary school: K-4, K-5, or K-6
Junior high school or middle school: 5-8, 6-8, 7-8, or 7-9
High school: 9-12 or 10-12

Sometimes there's an intermediate (5th-6th or 6th only), but this is not the norm.

I was in elementary school from kindergarten through fifth grade, middle school from sixth through eighth, and high school from ninth through twelfth, and this is typical. Students at my middle school were 11-14 years old, in accordance with that grade level range; in high school we were 14-18 years old.
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Postby Vetalia » Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:23 pm

I got my first one when I think I was 17 or 18, but that was back in Ye Olden Days when we still had flip phones.
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Postby ArenaC » Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:23 pm

If deemed responsible by the parent, a child can receive a cell/smart phone.
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Postby Nouveau Yathrib » Tue Mar 31, 2020 3:51 pm

Smart phones should have a higher minimum age restriction than flip phones. I'd say 13 for any mobile device and at least 16ish for smart phones. There should be a gradual progression towards more privileges alongside more responsibilities.

I got my first flip phone at 14 or 15, but didn't upgrade to a fully functional smart phone with Wifi until I graduated from high school.
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Postby Narland » Tue Mar 31, 2020 6:12 pm

Ghost Land wrote:
Narland wrote:Most American Public Schools:

Schools with a Junior High
6 years of Elementary School (Primary Education) -- Grades 1-6 -- usually start at 6 or 7 years old (kids born in November and December)
2 years of Junior High School (Secondary Education) -- Grades 7-8 -- usually 13-14 years old (some 15 y.o.)
4 years of High School (also confusingly a part of Secondary Education) -- Grades 9 -12 usually 15 - 18 years old (some 19 y. o.)

Schools with a Middle School
6 years of Elementary School (Primary Education) -- Grades 1-6 -- usually start at 6 or 7 years old
3 years of Middle School (Secondary Education) -- Grades 7-9 -- usually 13-15 years old (some 16 y.o.)
3 years of High School (also confusingly a part of Secondary Education) -- Grades 10 -12 usually 16 - 18 years old (some 19 y. o.)

***I went to lunch before posting so it might be a bit late in the thread.***

You forgot kindergarten.

Elementary school: K-4, K-5, or K-6
Junior high school or middle school: 5-8, 6-8, 7-8, or 7-9
High school: 9-12 or 10-12

Sometimes there's an intermediate (5th-6th or 6th only), but this is not the norm.

Idaho is relatively anti-K. We only have 17 schools that support it mostly in Boise and Hailey, where a lot of Californians moved.

I was in elementary school from kindergarten through fifth grade, middle school from sixth through eighth, and high school from ninth through twelfth, and this is typical. Students at my middle school were 11-14 years old, in accordance with that grade level range; in high school we were 14-18 years old.

Yeah. I try to forget K. It was one the the worst wastes of a month of my life. Thankfully I got kicked out for coloring everything except the balloons red. I thought coloring everything their natural colors (as close as one can get with a crayon) looked better, and more interesting while the balloons remained cheap paper beige. I was tagged: fails to follow instructions. LOL.

I learned more from my great-great grandparents that my grandfather was caretaking on the ranch than I ever did from K or even grades one and two. They taught me as child, any stranger had better have a reasonable cogent argument before ordering me around, lol. The taught me to read and pointed me to plato's geometry, and the Great Books.

Kindergarten taught me to that Kindergarten teachers are control freaks who try to bribe kids with num-mums and playtime so they can socially control their behaviour into arbitrarily derived "norms" that they cannot articulate or structure into a reasonable argument.
Last edited by Narland on Tue Mar 31, 2020 6:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Postby Purple Rats » Tue Mar 31, 2020 6:47 pm

Narland wrote:Yeah. I try to forget K. It was one the the worst wastes of a month of my life. Thankfully I got kicked out for coloring everything except the balloons red. I thought coloring everything their natural colors (as close as one can get with a crayon) looked better, and more interesting while the balloons remained cheap paper beige. I was tagged: fails to follow instructions. LOL.


Hahahha, you got kicked out from kindergarten? :lol2: :lol2: I am sorry, but it is funny. :D

Narland wrote:Kindergarten taught me to that Kindergarten teachers are control freaks who try to bribe kids with num-mums and playtime so they can socially control their behaviour into arbitrarily derived "norms" that they cannot articulate or structure into a reasonable argument.


Yeah, I asked my mom to take me away from kindergarten cause they forced me to sleep during noon, and we did not do that in our home.

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Postby Thermodolia » Tue Mar 31, 2020 6:57 pm

Highschool age. Middle schoolers, those 13 and under, don’t need a phone. Then again that might be because I’m old and don’t trust technology
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Postby Forsher » Tue Mar 31, 2020 7:50 pm

Cekoviu wrote:
The Free Joy State wrote:It would depend on the individual child (their needs, their maturity).

For most children, when they're going into high school (so 11/12, depending on the country) would be an appropriate time to give them an inexpensive, sturdy phone (one where it wouldn't matter too much if it got broken or lost) so they can stay in touch while out with or going to be late or ask permission to go to a friend's house after school.

Some children -- for example, children who have to travel long distances to school at a younger age or children with some medical conditions -- may require a (very) basic phone several years younger.

All-singing, all-dancing phones that can download the greatest hits, do your taxes and tell you the current temperature on the opposite side of the Moon... I think teenagers should save up their allowance money (and birthday/Christmas money) and buy them for themselves.

er, high school at 11/12?


Why do you think Harry Potter goes to Hogwarts after his eleventh birthday? OWLs are also blatantly GCSEs (or, possibly, O-levels... nope, O-levels were phased out in 1988 but Rowling obviously did O-levels not GCSEs) and NEWTS A-Levels. In fact, aside from the whole "school for wizards"/magic stuff I think everything in Hogwarts is ripped straight out of real life.

Of course, anywhere in the Northern Hemisphere invariably has a completely insane approach to schools. Imagine the school year starting in the middle of the year! Psychotic. :lol:

The school year discussion... we also do that better too. New Entrants/Year 0 - Year 6 = primary, Y7 -Y8 = intermediate and Y9-Y13 = secondary/college/high school. Most people will go to what's called a full primary (Y0-Y8) and college though.

If we want to dive into the nitty gritty then there are some weird places that have middle schools (no idea what years are involved), the odd junior college (I believe Y9 and Y10, who are called "juniors" anyway... nope, the only one I know of is Y7-Y10 so I guess that's all of them), the odd senior college (again pretty sure this is Y11-Y13, who are called seniors anyway), the odd Y7-Y13 school (i.e. from age 11 onwards) and finally composites (Y0-Y13).

Mind you we do this really weird thing where you start on your birthday. So, in New Entrants there are new children arriving throughout the entire year. This is probably why birthdays usually run March-February instead of January-December... schools push people up into Y1 from New Entrants depending on the roll (this happened to my brother, May, and also a friend of his, June, so I assume it explains things). Net effect? In a class of 28, the three of us with birthdays in late July were the 6th to 8th oldest people... with 2 & 3 in June too. OTOH my class wasn't randomly selected so that may be a coincidence.

Er... mobiles.

If your kid is getting to school under their own power, there's no need for them to have a phone. If they're using public transport... in a low resilience city like Auckland, it's kind of necessary (if a train breaks down in the wrong place and you're trying to go north or south of Otahuhu, you be fucked) but in a more functional city, there should be alternatives around (and your child should know what alternatives to use) so "need" is difficult to substantiate. If you're an agent of global warming well, then, theoretically you shouldn't need one... your kid just hangs around after school until you manage to turn up, right? And you shouldn't be picking up and dropping your kid off anyway. Why add lithium depletion to your list of crimes against Planet Earth? (If you're reading this and it applies to you, I am scolding you and you should feel bad. It's that everyone like you says "but I have no choice but to drive them" which explains why you say that.)

So... the answer is, therefore, whenever they're trying to find a job because a lot of casual shift work will involve competing for gigs and if you're relying on intermittent email access you'll miss shifts. Conclusion? Not having a phone will unfairly limit what jobs your child can apply for. Phones also make communicating with the boss easier, but this can have the side-effect of the moron ringing you whilst you're in classical studies (happened to a friend of mine all the time... it was basically a running joke) and, besides, people have been working after school jobs since way before mobiles so "need" doesn't happen.

Counter-argument... all their friends will have phones from probably at least 13 so you run the risk of peer group isolation. Yes, there are other ways of having/being friends but getting this sort of socialisation done now will help your child keep friends who they don't/no longer see five days a week in person.

Rebuttal... cyber-bullying. Why put the bully in your pocket?

Conclusion? For most people, mid to late teens. Phones aren't difficult to learn to use and that counter-argument is consequently pretty disingenuous(people who don't use Snapchat, Instagram or Tik-Tok... whatever's next... don't do so because it's hard to get used to that kind of socialisation).
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Postby Major-Tom » Tue Mar 31, 2020 7:53 pm

I had a flip phone until I was, say, 15? I've had the same IPhone now for, jesus, 5 or 6 years, and it's perfect. I'd say, really, whenever the kid is mature enough for the smartphone (and if it's financially viable for the parents), then that's the time. Some thirteen year olds probably can handle the responsibility, others definitely can't.
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Postby Forsher » Tue Mar 31, 2020 7:57 pm

Major-Tom wrote:I had a flip phone until I was, say, 15? I've had the same IPhone now for, jesus, 5 or 6 years, and it's perfect. I'd say, really, whenever the kid is mature enough for the smartphone (and if it's financially viable for the parents), then that's the time. Some thirteen year olds probably can handle the responsibility, others definitely can't.


You can (now*) get entirely functional smartphones for $100 NZ. While, in many cases, this is an enormous sum (even overseas in better paying countries with lower costs of living) I get the feeling you're assuming iPhones are a representative price for smartphones instead of being 5 to 10 times more expensive than they have any right to be. Or am I just looking for an opportunity to criticise Apple?

* 5 years ago... I would say, not. My old phone could use the internet and play music, but putting apps on it? Not on your life (well, I think I found a pdf reader). Hardly what I'd call functional given prospective "needs" as opposed to "wants" (you don't need a Youtube or a Reddit or even a Uber app... you kind of do need the app that has your shifts on, no?).
Last edited by Forsher on Tue Mar 31, 2020 7:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
That it Could be What it Is, Is What it Is

Stop making shit up, though. Links, or it's a God-damn lie and you know it.

The normie life is heteronormie

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Trollgaard
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Posts: 9623
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Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Trollgaard » Tue Mar 31, 2020 7:58 pm

Narland wrote:Most American Public Schools:

Schools with a Junior High
6 years of Elementary School (Primary Education) -- Grades 1-6 -- usually start at 6 or 7 years old (kids born in November and December)
2 years of Junior High School (Secondary Education) -- Grades 7-8 -- usually 13-14 years old (some 15 y.o.)
4 years of High School (also confusingly a part of Secondary Education) -- Grades 9 -12 usually 15 - 18 years old (some 19 y. o.)

Schools with a Middle School
6 years of Elementary School (Primary Education) -- Grades 1-6 -- usually start at 6 or 7 years old
3 years of Middle School (Secondary Education) -- Grades 7-9 -- usually 13-15 years old (some 16 y.o.)
3 years of High School (also confusingly a part of Secondary Education) -- Grades 10 -12 usually 16 - 18 years old (some 19 y. o.)

***I went to lunch before posting so it might be a bit late in the thread.***


umm...no?

Elementary school- Kindergarten- 5th grade
Middle School- 6-8
High school- 9-12

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Major-Tom
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Major-Tom » Tue Mar 31, 2020 7:59 pm

Forsher wrote:
Major-Tom wrote:I had a flip phone until I was, say, 15? I've had the same IPhone now for, jesus, 5 or 6 years, and it's perfect. I'd say, really, whenever the kid is mature enough for the smartphone (and if it's financially viable for the parents), then that's the time. Some thirteen year olds probably can handle the responsibility, others definitely can't.


You can get entirely functional smartphones for $100 NZ. While, in many cases, this is an enormous sum (even overseas in better paying countries with lower costs of living) I get the feeling you're assuming iPhones are a representative price for smartphones instead of being 5 to 10 times more expensive than they have any right to be. Or am I just looking for an opportunity to criticise Apple?


You're correct and also looking for an excuse to criticize Apple. Samsung makes some stellar and more affordable products, ditto for Motorola and other companies, though I'm just familiar with the IPhone overall, and that familiarity will probably lead me to upgrade to another one once my IPhone6 decides to finally die on me.
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Forsher
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Founded: Jan 30, 2012
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Forsher » Tue Mar 31, 2020 8:04 pm

Major-Tom wrote:
Forsher wrote:
You can get entirely functional smartphones for $100 NZ. While, in many cases, this is an enormous sum (even overseas in better paying countries with lower costs of living) I get the feeling you're assuming iPhones are a representative price for smartphones instead of being 5 to 10 times more expensive than they have any right to be. Or am I just looking for an opportunity to criticise Apple?


You're correct and also looking for an excuse to criticize Apple. Samsung makes some stellar and more affordable products, ditto for Motorola and other companies, though I'm just familiar with the IPhone overall, and that familiarity will probably lead me to upgrade to another one once my IPhone6 decides to finally die on me.


They haven't got you trapped in their ecosystem have they? Buying Apple products to go with/enhance your existing Apple products and therefore, unless you have to replace everything in the ecosystem at once, replacing them with Apple products. If it's just to save time by buying something you're already familiar with, that's different. (I'm a big fan of letting things die... my alarm clock, for instance, is about 11 years old. Got a slightly older calculator somewhere... I've lost it; I hope I haven't lost it out of the house... sentimental value and all that. Only replaced my old phone because I somehow lost it on the train... it was in my hand, then I exited the train and didn't have it any more. Very odd.)

This is another reason to not give pre-teens phones. Gotta let them develop some consumer nous, first.
Last edited by Forsher on Tue Mar 31, 2020 8:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
That it Could be What it Is, Is What it Is

Stop making shit up, though. Links, or it's a God-damn lie and you know it.

The normie life is heteronormie

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Purple Rats
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Founded: Mar 20, 2020
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Purple Rats » Tue Mar 31, 2020 8:17 pm

I am 29, and I have had only one smartphone in my life. :lol2:

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