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Groveling to save lives

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Sun Mar 29, 2020 10:39 am

Cisairse wrote:
Albrenia wrote:So, after reading through this thread and thinking a little, I think I've changed my mind.

Perhaps it is possible to avoid feeding into Trump's little game without endangering lives. Publicly say you need the machines, make a really big deal about it and the urgency of the need while neither grovelling for them nor being openly defiant. Put the ball in Trump's court with a direct, urgent request while trying to also gather as many machines as one can with one's own resources.

That might work, maybe? Trump might even be more likely to deliver machines to avoid looking bad, as opposed to just 'rewarding' a good grovelling session from an opponent.


Trump doesn't care about looking bad in blue states, though.

These kinds of issues with navigating Trump's ego are why I think it's not worth trying. You could do everything he asks and on a whim he might decide that it wasn't enough.
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Grenartia
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Postby Grenartia » Sun Mar 29, 2020 12:37 pm

Rojava Free State wrote: If anyone here still wasn't convinced that Trump was a monster after four years of his crap, here's some more evidence that he is.


In all honesty, if throwing kids in cages and separating them from their families didn't convince them, nothing will. At least until the leopard eats their face.
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Rojava Free State
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Postby Rojava Free State » Sun Mar 29, 2020 12:38 pm

Grenartia wrote:
Rojava Free State wrote: If anyone here still wasn't convinced that Trump was a monster after four years of his crap, here's some more evidence that he is.


In all honesty, if throwing kids in cages and separating them from their families didn't convince them, nothing will. At least until the leopard eats their face.


I felt that.
political compass:

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pro: marijuana, gun rights, private property

anti: fascism, communism, islamism, sexism, pan africanism, La raza, Warren Police Department (and most of the other police departments of metro Detroit except for Auburn Hills. They're aight), gun control, trump, obama, bush, clinton, reagan, carter, chipotle and snotty in crowd teens. Ugh I can't deal with them
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Greed and Death
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Postby Greed and Death » Sun Mar 29, 2020 12:40 pm

Grenartia wrote:
Rojava Free State wrote: If anyone here still wasn't convinced that Trump was a monster after four years of his crap, here's some more evidence that he is.


In all honesty, if throwing kids in cages and separating them from their families didn't convince them, nothing will. At least until the leopard eats their face.


You have been watching too many episodes of the tiger king.
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Nakena
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Postby Nakena » Sun Mar 29, 2020 12:47 pm

He's also unpredictable. I think some of his Chiefs of Staff (specifically Kelly) tried to control the flow of information and nonsense towards him and failed, to say it ala trump, bigly. If anything it seems to have made things worse.

I wonder if medication was at some point tried. Generally comparing to his older interviews, there appears to be a progression in those traits.

Generally it can be turned and moved around as one may wish, in the end the histrionic disorder (and whatever other comorbidities such as ADD etc.) could count him sufficiently to make him unfit to office under the 25th. Specifically since theres a huge record now, and it interferes obviously with his ability to deal with the corona crisis.
Last edited by Nakena on Sun Mar 29, 2020 12:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Rojava Free State
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Postby Rojava Free State » Sun Mar 29, 2020 1:11 pm

When I heard about trump's desire to quarantine New York, I realized what his plan was. Block New York off from the rest of the world and then let the disease run rampant in the state, killing upwards of 10% of the people who get it. Most new Yorkers would survive but it would inflict a major blow on the state in retaliation for "them not voting for me" and "Cuomo not showing me the respect I deserve."

This guy is downright diabolical. I seriously cant believe he would even consider denying aid to Americans during a disaster.
political compass:

Economic Left/Right: -0.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.38
pro: marijuana, gun rights, private property

anti: fascism, communism, islamism, sexism, pan africanism, La raza, Warren Police Department (and most of the other police departments of metro Detroit except for Auburn Hills. They're aight), gun control, trump, obama, bush, clinton, reagan, carter, chipotle and snotty in crowd teens. Ugh I can't deal with them
Hurdergaryp wrote:Humanity keeps seeing itself as the crown of creation, but to this world we're a crown of thorns at best.


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Rojava Free State
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Postby Rojava Free State » Sun Mar 29, 2020 1:13 pm

Ifreann wrote:
Cisairse wrote:
Trump doesn't care about looking bad in blue states, though.

These kinds of issues with navigating Trump's ego are why I think it's not worth trying. You could do everything he asks and on a whim he might decide that it wasn't enough.


Jeff Sessions was one of the biggest supporters Trump ever had, but because he made one mistake (recusing himself), he fell out of favor with the God Emperor and was cast out forever, while also being viciously mocked at CPAC. And the conservative movement, which for years championed their principles, turned on a hero of their's because a pro-gay, pro-abortion, adulterous, blasphemous New York billionaire told them to. Trump is so hard to please that no one is safe around him.
political compass:

Economic Left/Right: -0.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.38
pro: marijuana, gun rights, private property

anti: fascism, communism, islamism, sexism, pan africanism, La raza, Warren Police Department (and most of the other police departments of metro Detroit except for Auburn Hills. They're aight), gun control, trump, obama, bush, clinton, reagan, carter, chipotle and snotty in crowd teens. Ugh I can't deal with them
Hurdergaryp wrote:Humanity keeps seeing itself as the crown of creation, but to this world we're a crown of thorns at best.


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Grenartia
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Grenartia » Tue Mar 31, 2020 4:11 pm

Greed and Death wrote:
Grenartia wrote:
In all honesty, if throwing kids in cages and separating them from their families didn't convince them, nothing will. At least until the leopard eats their face.


You have been watching too many episodes of the tiger king.


Never heard of it.

Rojava Free State wrote:When I heard about trump's desire to quarantine New York, I realized what his plan was. Block New York off from the rest of the world and then let the disease run rampant in the state, killing upwards of 10% of the people who get it. Most new Yorkers would survive but it would inflict a major blow on the state in retaliation for "them not voting for me" and "Cuomo not showing me the respect I deserve."

This guy is downright diabolical. I seriously cant believe he would even consider denying aid to Americans during a disaster.


I totally unironically believe that.

Rojava Free State wrote:
Ifreann wrote:These kinds of issues with navigating Trump's ego are why I think it's not worth trying. You could do everything he asks and on a whim he might decide that it wasn't enough.


Jeff Sessions was one of the biggest supporters Trump ever had, but because he made one mistake (recusing himself), he fell out of favor with the God Emperor and was cast out forever, while also being viciously mocked at CPAC. And the conservative movement, which for years championed their principles, turned on a hero of their's because a pro-gay, pro-abortion, adulterous, blasphemous New York billionaire told them to. Trump is so hard to please that no one is safe around him.


Thus proving what the rest of us knew all along, that despite all of their bluster, their so-called principles were nothing but a sham.
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Crockerland
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Founded: Oct 15, 2015
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Crockerland » Wed Apr 01, 2020 8:35 am

Zapato wrote:While this does use Trump as a starting point for discussion, it's not supposed to be about Trump. He has his own thread over here.

Now, as you may or may not have heard, Trump recently said he had instructed Vice President Pence not to reach out to governors who aren’t “appreciative” of his administration’s efforts, despite the ongoing pandemic and that lives are on the line.

“If they don’t treat you right, I don’t call,” Trump said of state leaders, such as Inslee and Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer, both Democrats. “I think they should be appreciative. We’ve done a great job.”

My governor (Michelle Lujan Grisham) would definitely sacrifice everyone in the state for some minor political gain against Trump, so I don''t blame him for only looking to leaders he can trust.

As long as these politicians act like petulant children, Trump shouldn't put the lives of Americans in their hands, they will happily get their constituents killed just to spite Trump (like what happened in Puerto Rico). If they decide they want to act like adults, they are free to start doing so at any time.
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Rojava Free State
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Postby Rojava Free State » Wed Apr 01, 2020 8:37 am

Crockerland wrote:
Zapato wrote:While this does use Trump as a starting point for discussion, it's not supposed to be about Trump. He has his own thread over here.

Now, as you may or may not have heard, Trump recently said he had instructed Vice President Pence not to reach out to governors who aren’t “appreciative” of his administration’s efforts, despite the ongoing pandemic and that lives are on the line.

“If they don’t treat you right, I don’t call,” Trump said of state leaders, such as Inslee and Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer, both Democrats. “I think they should be appreciative. We’ve done a great job.”

My governor (Michelle Lujan Grisham) would definitely sacrifice everyone in the state for some minor political gain against Trump, so I don''t blame him for only looking to leaders he can trust.

As long as these politicians act like petulant children, Trump shouldn't put the lives of Americans in their hands, they will happily get their constituents killed just to spite Trump (like what happened in Puerto Rico). If they decide they want to act like adults, they are free to start doing so at any time.


Except Cuomo and Whitmer have been acting like adults. More so than trump. Trump needs to stop being a bitch and send some help. If people die because he refuses to send aid, it is most certainly his fault.
political compass:

Economic Left/Right: -0.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.38
pro: marijuana, gun rights, private property

anti: fascism, communism, islamism, sexism, pan africanism, La raza, Warren Police Department (and most of the other police departments of metro Detroit except for Auburn Hills. They're aight), gun control, trump, obama, bush, clinton, reagan, carter, chipotle and snotty in crowd teens. Ugh I can't deal with them
Hurdergaryp wrote:Humanity keeps seeing itself as the crown of creation, but to this world we're a crown of thorns at best.


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Rojava Free State
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Founded: Feb 06, 2018
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Postby Rojava Free State » Wed Apr 01, 2020 8:38 am

Grenartia wrote:
Greed and Death wrote:
You have been watching too many episodes of the tiger king.


Never heard of it.

Rojava Free State wrote:When I heard about trump's desire to quarantine New York, I realized what his plan was. Block New York off from the rest of the world and then let the disease run rampant in the state, killing upwards of 10% of the people who get it. Most new Yorkers would survive but it would inflict a major blow on the state in retaliation for "them not voting for me" and "Cuomo not showing me the respect I deserve."

This guy is downright diabolical. I seriously cant believe he would even consider denying aid to Americans during a disaster.


I totally unironically believe that.

Rojava Free State wrote:
Jeff Sessions was one of the biggest supporters Trump ever had, but because he made one mistake (recusing himself), he fell out of favor with the God Emperor and was cast out forever, while also being viciously mocked at CPAC. And the conservative movement, which for years championed their principles, turned on a hero of their's because a pro-gay, pro-abortion, adulterous, blasphemous New York billionaire told them to. Trump is so hard to please that no one is safe around him.


Thus proving what the rest of us knew all along, that despite all of their bluster, their so-called principles were nothing but a sham.


They must have stopped believing in Jesus when they started believing in Trump.
political compass:

Economic Left/Right: -0.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.38
pro: marijuana, gun rights, private property

anti: fascism, communism, islamism, sexism, pan africanism, La raza, Warren Police Department (and most of the other police departments of metro Detroit except for Auburn Hills. They're aight), gun control, trump, obama, bush, clinton, reagan, carter, chipotle and snotty in crowd teens. Ugh I can't deal with them
Hurdergaryp wrote:Humanity keeps seeing itself as the crown of creation, but to this world we're a crown of thorns at best.


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Nanatsu no Tsuki
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Postby Nanatsu no Tsuki » Wed Apr 01, 2020 8:59 am

Ifreann wrote:
Cisairse wrote:
Trump doesn't care about looking bad in blue states, though.

These kinds of issues with navigating Trump's ego are why I think it's not worth trying. You could do everything he asks and on a whim he might decide that it wasn't enough.


Perhaps this is what’s needed for him to lose the elections.
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Cisairse
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Founded: Mar 17, 2017
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Cisairse » Thu Apr 09, 2020 12:14 pm

Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
Ifreann wrote:These kinds of issues with navigating Trump's ego are why I think it's not worth trying. You could do everything he asks and on a whim he might decide that it wasn't enough.


Perhaps this is what’s needed for him to lose the elections.


We hope.
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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Thu Apr 09, 2020 12:22 pm

Rojava Free State wrote:
Ifreann wrote:These kinds of issues with navigating Trump's ego are why I think it's not worth trying. You could do everything he asks and on a whim he might decide that it wasn't enough.


Jeff Sessions was one of the biggest supporters Trump ever had, but because he made one mistake (recusing himself), he fell out of favor with the God Emperor and was cast out forever, while also being viciously mocked at CPAC. And the conservative movement, which for years championed their principles, turned on a hero of their's because a pro-gay, pro-abortion, adulterous, blasphemous New York billionaire told them to. Trump is so hard to please that no one is safe around him.

That's a bingo.
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The Alma Mater
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Postby The Alma Mater » Thu Apr 09, 2020 12:24 pm

Greed and Death wrote:
Grenartia wrote:
In all honesty, if throwing kids in cages and separating them from their families didn't convince them, nothing will. At least until the leopard eats their face.


You have been watching too many episodes of the tiger king.

He would have made a better president than Trump.
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Major-Tom
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Postby Major-Tom » Thu Apr 09, 2020 12:24 pm

I certainly wouldn't drool over the fucking guy in this hypothetical, but I'd probably refrain from harsh criticism and take a more nuanced approach. I'm sure it's easier said than done when you're dealing with someone that petulant, but, still. Dem governors like Wolf and Kelly (just two examples) have done a fine job finding that sort of balance in order to get resources to their states.

DeSantis probably groveled the hardest, and look where that landed him.
Last edited by Major-Tom on Thu Apr 09, 2020 12:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Kragholm Free States
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Postby Kragholm Free States » Thu Apr 09, 2020 12:57 pm

Rojava Free State wrote:When I heard about trump's desire to quarantine New York, I realized what his plan was. Block New York off from the rest of the world and then let the disease run rampant in the state, killing upwards of 10% of the people who get it. Most new Yorkers would survive but it would inflict a major blow on the state in retaliation for "them not voting for me" and "Cuomo not showing me the respect I deserve."

This guy is downright diabolical. I seriously cant believe he would even consider denying aid to Americans during a disaster.


What fucking planet are you living on where COVID-19 has a 10% mortality rate?
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Cisairse
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Cisairse » Thu Apr 09, 2020 1:00 pm

Kragholm Free States wrote:
Rojava Free State wrote:When I heard about trump's desire to quarantine New York, I realized what his plan was. Block New York off from the rest of the world and then let the disease run rampant in the state, killing upwards of 10% of the people who get it. Most new Yorkers would survive but it would inflict a major blow on the state in retaliation for "them not voting for me" and "Cuomo not showing me the respect I deserve."

This guy is downright diabolical. I seriously cant believe he would even consider denying aid to Americans during a disaster.


What fucking planet are you living on where COVID-19 has a 10% mortality rate?


Earth.

COVID-19 has a 12.67% fatality rate in Italy; 11.69% fatality rate in the U.K.; 10.94% fatality rate in the Netherlands; 10.10% fatality rate in Belgium, etc.
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Kragholm Free States
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Capitalist Paradise

Postby Kragholm Free States » Thu Apr 09, 2020 1:05 pm

Cisairse wrote:
Kragholm Free States wrote:
What fucking planet are you living on where COVID-19 has a 10% mortality rate?


Earth.

COVID-19 has a 12.67% fatality rate in Italy; 11.69% fatality rate in the U.K.; 10.94% fatality rate in the Netherlands; 10.10% fatality rate in Belgium, etc.


"The number of cases detected by testing will vary considerably by country;
Selection bias can mean those with severe disease are preferentially tested."

Obviously when you're only testing and confirming the cases that are already being hospitalised and pretending that's an accurate representation of the whole country, you're going to get a fatality rate that doesn't reflect reality.
Last edited by Kragholm Free States on Thu Apr 09, 2020 1:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Rio Cana
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Postby Rio Cana » Thu Apr 09, 2020 1:48 pm

Albrenia wrote:Fuck it. I'd grovel to the manchild to save lives, even if it makes his reelection chances stronger.


Heard that California is going its own way.

Read - https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/artic ... irus-plans
Last edited by Rio Cana on Thu Apr 09, 2020 1:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Rojava Free State
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Postby Rojava Free State » Thu Apr 09, 2020 1:49 pm

Kragholm Free States wrote:
Cisairse wrote:
Earth.

COVID-19 has a 12.67% fatality rate in Italy; 11.69% fatality rate in the U.K.; 10.94% fatality rate in the Netherlands; 10.10% fatality rate in Belgium, etc.


"The number of cases detected by testing will vary considerably by country;
Selection bias can mean those with severe disease are preferentially tested."

Obviously when you're only testing and confirming the cases that are already being hospitalised and pretending that's an accurate representation of the whole country, you're going to get a fatality rate that doesn't reflect reality.


Which is why I said upwards of 10% and not just 10%. It could be anywhere between 1 and 10% fatality.
political compass:

Economic Left/Right: -0.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.38
pro: marijuana, gun rights, private property

anti: fascism, communism, islamism, sexism, pan africanism, La raza, Warren Police Department (and most of the other police departments of metro Detroit except for Auburn Hills. They're aight), gun control, trump, obama, bush, clinton, reagan, carter, chipotle and snotty in crowd teens. Ugh I can't deal with them
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Kragholm Free States
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Capitalist Paradise

Postby Kragholm Free States » Thu Apr 09, 2020 1:52 pm

Rojava Free State wrote:
Kragholm Free States wrote:
"The number of cases detected by testing will vary considerably by country;
Selection bias can mean those with severe disease are preferentially tested."

Obviously when you're only testing and confirming the cases that are already being hospitalised and pretending that's an accurate representation of the whole country, you're going to get a fatality rate that doesn't reflect reality.


Which is why I said upwards of 10% and not just 10%. It could be anywhere between 1 and 10% fatality.


That's not what "upwards of" means.
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Rojava Free State
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Postby Rojava Free State » Thu Apr 09, 2020 1:53 pm

Kragholm Free States wrote:
Rojava Free State wrote:
Which is why I said upwards of 10% and not just 10%. It could be anywhere between 1 and 10% fatality.


That's not what "upwards of" means.


Okay, as much as 10%.
political compass:

Economic Left/Right: -0.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.38
pro: marijuana, gun rights, private property

anti: fascism, communism, islamism, sexism, pan africanism, La raza, Warren Police Department (and most of the other police departments of metro Detroit except for Auburn Hills. They're aight), gun control, trump, obama, bush, clinton, reagan, carter, chipotle and snotty in crowd teens. Ugh I can't deal with them
Hurdergaryp wrote:Humanity keeps seeing itself as the crown of creation, but to this world we're a crown of thorns at best.


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The Lone Alliance
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Founded: May 25, 2005
Left-Leaning College State

Postby The Lone Alliance » Thu Apr 09, 2020 2:34 pm

Rojava Free State wrote:
The Lone Alliance wrote:I have to wonder if the Hurricane Maria Puerto Rico relief aid scandal is what helped convince him the stupid idea?

What does Trump really think that the Democratic governors would willingly take the aid, hide it, then let their own people die simply to fuck him over?



You want to try to overthrow the US government in a midst of a viral crisis, and you actually think the general population would side with you simply out of hatred of Trump?


I guess Trump assumes that everyone is like him. He would clearly be willing to let people die just to make someone else look bad, so I think other people are as sociopathic as him and would do the same.

Well the response by Puerto Rico reinforced that view, the local governments of Puerto Rico were quite willing to let their own people die simply so the Federal Government would fork over more money and disaster relief while secretly hoarding supplies for their own advantage.

Their idiotic actions gave Trump the excuse he needed to pull this.

Unfortunately the damage was done.

Really though for the most part I think most people made the right call to simply ignore Trump and use the fact that truthfully he doesn't have the power to make them beg.
Last edited by The Lone Alliance on Thu Apr 09, 2020 2:44 pm, edited 4 times in total.
"Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger." -Herman Goering
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War is cruelty, and you cannot refine it; -William Tecumseh Sherman

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Bromagia
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Posts: 953
Founded: Jan 17, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Bromagia » Thu Apr 09, 2020 4:04 pm

Nakena wrote:He's also unpredictable. I think some of his Chiefs of Staff (specifically Kelly) tried to control the flow of information and nonsense towards him and failed, to say it ala trump, bigly. If anything it seems to have made things worse.

I wonder if medication was at some point tried. Generally comparing to his older interviews, there appears to be a progression in those traits.

Generally it can be turned and moved around as one may wish, in the end the histrionic disorder (and whatever other comorbidities such as ADD etc.) could count him sufficiently to make him unfit to office under the 25th. Specifically since theres a huge record now, and it interferes obviously with his ability to deal with the corona crisis.

Which of his doctors has diagnosed histrionic disorder? I hadn't heard of any actual diagnosed mental health issues.
I'm finished with this forum and the constant goddamn groupthink, virtue signalling, and woke scolding. I thank Max for the good times I've spent here but I just don't fit anymore. Peace.

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