2020 US General Election Thread VI: Covid for VP!

[LimaUniformNovemberAlpha]

Still, if they didn't bring this up the instant Biden decided to run for President, it makes me suspect a pro-Trump agenda.

Either that or a belief that a choice between alleged rapists would make people finally vote third party. I wouldn't share their wishful thinking, though.

So Tara Reade has stated that she initially didn't raise this because she faced massive backlash and hatred when she just mentioned Biden sexually harassing her by touching the back of her neck. That convinced her to not come forward with the more serious allegation that he sexually assaulted her earlier. She then decided to bring the case in January this year, but her lawyers with the National Women’s Law Center (NWLC) got her to delay laying charges against Biden until he dropped out, because they were worried about losing their non-profit status if they laid charges against someone running for federal office (in this case the Presidency). Then, when Biden didn't drop out (and started becoming the presumptive nominee) they dropped her.

Ryan Grim has spoken about how they actually didn't need to do this, and it seems to have been a fuck up on the NWLC's part, as well as on Time’s Up's part (see: https://theintercept.com/2020/03/24/joe-biden-metoo-times-up/).

It seems far more likely to be more a standard fuck up, or at most an ideological desire on NWLC's and Time's Up's part to protect Biden against Trump (viewing Trump as the greater of two evils), than a pro-Trump scheme that required getting a lifelong Democrat who had been a staffer for Biden in 1993 all to accuse him of sexual assault 27 years later. That's the type of scheme that just requires too many variables to work perfectly all for you to probably hurt the guy who might possibly be the presumptive nominee in almost three decades time.

Okay, fair enough.

It's a sad lesson for future generations; "then and there" might turn out to be one's last chance to report it...

[Uiiop]

...why didn't they tell us this when he was running against Sanders?

Why didn't they tell us this when he was running against Klobuchar, Buttigieg, and Yang?

The backlash from the first report and contacting orgs led to silence.

[Cisairse]

No I mean literally what do you think they will do? They are not LEOs, they are not legal funds, and they are candidate-agnostic until Convention. They would not be a plaintiff nor a defense if the allegations turn into a lawsuit.

When it comes to it, they can support, ignore, or resist an investigation. Supporting an independent investigation once Biden is the nominee or at the earliest they can do so would help their credibility, and shield themselves from disingenuous accusations of hypocrisy from the other side designed to depress turnout among independents and non-Trump supporting Republican moderates who may have otherwise voted Biden.

If it appears to not be true due to political circumstances, then verify that it is a false allegation. It looks bad when Dems accuse Republicans of a heinous crime when the GOP have ignored or dismiss sexual assault allegations on the basis it came at a suspicious time and then turn around and do the same thing.

There must be a uniform standard for approaching allegations, otherwise it looks like the Democratic Party only stands up for victims when it's politically expedient.

What do you believe the DNC can do to support or resist an investigation? Do you believe that the DNC has some relevant documents or testimony that they could choose to release or withhold?

[True Refuge]

When it comes to it, they can support, ignore, or resist an investigation. Supporting an independent investigation once Biden is the nominee or at the earliest they can do so would help their credibility, and shield themselves from disingenuous accusations of hypocrisy from the other side designed to depress turnout among independents and non-Trump supporting Republican moderates who may have otherwise voted Biden.

If it appears to not be true due to political circumstances, then verify that it is a false allegation. It looks bad when Dems accuse Republicans of a heinous crime when the GOP have ignored or dismiss sexual assault allegations on the basis it came at a suspicious time and then turn around and do the same thing.

There must be a uniform standard for approaching allegations, otherwise it looks like the Democratic Party only stands up for victims when it's politically expedient.

What do you believe the DNC can do to support or resist an investigation? Do you believe that the DNC has some relevant documents or testimony that they could choose to release or withhold?

Can I make it any clearer that I'm talking solely about optics in regard to my references to the DNC?

Maybe someone can ask law enforcement to investigate. I don't know, and it's not what I'm talking about. The perception of consistency on the issue and careful support for victims is what matters.

Assisting an investigation is the job of Biden's campaign, but the party is involved in public perception too.

[Cisairse]

What do you believe the DNC can do to support or resist an investigation? Do you believe that the DNC has some relevant documents or testimony that they could choose to release or withhold?

Can I make it any clearer that I'm talking solely about optics?

You actually hadn't made that clear at all.

I really don't see how "optics" by the DNC, a party with no relation to the accusations, should be seen as important. In fact in matters such as this, I would believe that we should value facts more than optics in almost all cases.

[Albrenia]

Although you can't 'help' accusations and the like, maybe just staying out of the way? Only comment that 'all accusations need to be fully investigated' and refraining from acting like the Trump cult does in its incessant howls of 'fake news'.

[True Refuge]

Can I make it any clearer that I'm talking solely about optics?

You actually hadn't made that clear at all.

I really don't see how "optics" by the DNC, a party with no relation to the accusations, should be seen as important. In fact in matters such as this, I would believe that we should value facts more than optics in almost all cases.

When I'm talking about shielding from accusations and credibility, that refers to optics. Regardless, I'm clarifying it now. The DNC is a convenient scapegoat for the party, which means they will likely be dragged into it even if nuance reveals they have nothing to do with it.

Nevertheless, optics are a crucial concern for all parties involved directly, indirectly, or tangentially.

If the party or Biden supporters take the same line of logic in regard to this accusation that Republicans took in regard to accusations against Brett Kavanaugh, it will be seized as yet another angle of attack by both Bernie or Busters and Republicans to depress turnout. It will look awful when the Dems are portrayed as doing the same thing that they tried (and failed) to crucify Republicans for.

Never mind that nonchalant dismissal is exactly what the MeToo and BelieveHer movements are meant to oppose, and dismissing accusations out of hand by anyone If Biden is to win he and his campaign need to take every step possible to prove Biden's innocence as much as can be done even if it's only on the balance of probabilities as opposed to beyond a reasonable doubt, especially, when he and other candidates (rightfully) trashed Bloomberg for his history. Dismissing accusations out of hand will make matters worse.

Allowing the perception of hypocrisy, regardless of its validity considering nuance, on the issue of sexual assault is highly damaging for a party meant to be the champion of social issues. The population is far more apolitical then NSG would suggest. Turnout is what matters, and every point of contention that can be construed as "both parties are the same" will contribute to depression of turnout.

There will be very little nuance if Biden's opposition picks it up. Biden must get ahead of it ASAP by denying and proving its falseness as much as they can, if it is false.

[True Refuge]

Although you can't 'help' accusations and the like, maybe just staying out of the way? Only comment that 'all accusations need to be fully investigated' and refraining from acting like the Trump cult does in its incessant howls of 'fake news'.

Pretty much this. That's all the DNC needs to do to protect itself (and the party) from being dragged through the mud despite having basically nothing to do with it.

[Zurkerx]

Yeah, but we'll have to see how the rumors go before we know for sure. I can say with confidence that Klobuchar and Masto are in the Top 5; I even think Whitman and Harris are too.

Out of those four Whitmer is the best imo but she doesn't make sense to me since she can run again and Michigan seems to be the one that's going to be the easiest to win back out of MI, PA, and WI.

She would be a good pick but I see MI going blue regardless. The other great choice would have been Sherrod Brown from Ohio but Biden is picking a woman. Eh, I guess we shall wait and see. Oh, the fifth name I forgot to mention is Baldwin: I'm sure she would be good too.

[Kruiven]

Out of those four Whitmer is the best imo but she doesn't make sense to me since she can run again and Michigan seems to be the one that's going to be the easiest to win back out of MI, PA, and WI.

She would be a good pick but I see MI going blue regardless. The other great choice would have been Sherrod Brown from Ohio but Biden is picking a woman. Eh, I guess we shall wait and see. Oh, the fifth name I forgot to mention is Baldwin: I'm sure she would be good too.

The problem with those two is getting another Dem replacement successfully in is quite the challenge.

[Zurkerx]

She would be a good pick but I see MI going blue regardless. The other great choice would have been Sherrod Brown from Ohio but Biden is picking a woman. Eh, I guess we shall wait and see. Oh, the fifth name I forgot to mention is Baldwin: I'm sure she would be good too.

The problem with those two is getting another Dem replacement successfully in is quite the challenge.

Wisconsin is controlled by Democrats though I'm not sure if the government appoints a Senator in that case: I would imagine if they did, they pick someone that's quite popular. Of course, the gerrymandering doesn't help much from the past but it can be overcome.

[Farnhamia]

The problem with those two is getting another Dem replacement successfully in is quite the challenge.

Wisconsin is controlled by Democrats though I'm not sure if the government appoints a Senator in that case: I would imagine if they did, they pick someone that's quite popular. Of course, the gerrymandering doesn't help much from the past but it can be overcome.

I don't know about Wisconsin in particularly but usually the Governor appoints someone to fill the rest of the departing (or departed) Senator's term. Gerrymandering doesn't matter in senatorial elections, they're state-wide.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

Wisconsin is controlled by Democrats though I'm not sure if the government appoints a Senator in that case: I would imagine if they did, they pick someone that's quite popular. Of course, the gerrymandering doesn't help much from the past but it can be overcome.

I don't know about Wisconsin in particularly but usually the Governor appoints someone to fill the rest of the departing (or departed) Senator's term. Gerrymandering doesn't matter in senatorial elections, they're state-wide.

I looked it up for you. Seems Wisconsin requires a special election to fill a Senate seat. So it would be vacant until then.

[Zurkerx]

Wisconsin is controlled by Democrats though I'm not sure if the government appoints a Senator in that case: I would imagine if they did, they pick someone that's quite popular. Of course, the gerrymandering doesn't help much from the past but it can be overcome.

I don't know about Wisconsin in particularly but usually the Governor appoints someone to fill the rest of the departing (or departed) Senator's term. Gerrymandering doesn't matter in senatorial elections, they're state-wide.

True. I meant the more voter suppression that apparently happens there. My mistake for the wrong termology.

I don't know about Wisconsin in particularly but usually the Governor appoints someone to fill the rest of the departing (or departed) Senator's term. Gerrymandering doesn't matter in senatorial elections, they're state-wide.

I looked it up for you. Seems Wisconsin requires a special election to fill a Senate seat. So it would be vacant until then.

Ah so it is. In that case, it would be a gamble for Democrats.

[The Sherpa Empire]

Why didn't they tell us this when he was running against Klobuchar, Buttigieg, and Yang?

The backlash from the first report and contacting orgs led to silence.

I'm not understanding why the accusations weren't in the first report, before anyone had a chance to react with backlash.

I'm going to wait for more info before saying it's definitely true or definitely false, but the fact that she's changing her story after coming forward the first time makes me skeptical. It's relatively common for people to be afraid of speaking up at all, but if you've already worked up the courage to go public, then why not get the truth out the first time? Being comfortable enough to make a public accusation, but minimizing what happened, isn't a common and widely known phenomenon like the people who are embarrassed to come forward at all.

A couple years ago, someone on this forum linked to a source about how police departments separate credible rape reports from potentially-false accusations, and one of the red flags for false accusations was if they were short on information in the initial report, but added a lot more detail in subsequent conversations. I unfortunately don't remember exactly what the source was because it was something I read a couple years ago -- but this story does remind me of that.

It'd be nice if we could get some more info to make things clearer, but in the meantime, I'd recommend maintaining a healthy degree of skepticism. Whether you think Biden is guilty or innocent, I don't think either side should be too certain at this stage.

[Uiiop]

The backlash from the first report and contacting orgs led to silence.

I'm not understanding why the accusations weren't in the first report, before anyone had a chance to react with backlash.

I'm going to wait for more info before saying it's definitely true or definitely false, but the fact that she's changing her story after coming forward the first time makes me skeptical. It's relatively common for people to be afraid of speaking up at all, but if you've already worked up the courage to go public, then why not get the truth out the first time? Being comfortable enough to make a public accusation, but minimizing what happened, isn't a common and widely known phenomenon like the people who are embarrassed to come forward at all.

A couple years ago, someone on this forum linked to a source about how police departments separate credible rape reports from potentially-false accusations, and one of the red flags for false accusations was if they were short on information in the initial report, but added a lot more detail in subsequent conversations. I unfortunately don't remember exactly what the source was because it was something I read a couple years ago -- but this story does remind me of that.

It'd be nice if we could get some more info to make things clearer, but in the meantime, I'd recommend maintaining a healthy degree of skepticism. Whether you think Biden is guilty or innocent, I don't think either side should be too certain at this stage.

She says it's because she only felt comfortable talking about what was witnessed by other people.
It may or may not be apples to oranges in regards to this since that source seems to be talking about stuff involving the same incident.

You're right tho. I hope to see this disproved but merely the vic acting weird isn't enough.

[Blargoblarg]

So from googling "Joe Biden sexual assault" and "Joe Biden Tara Reade" I'm seeing a bunch of sites including Huffington Post, Vox, Newsweek, and Fox News have articles about this accusation. However, nothing on this so far from CNN, MSNBC, New York Times, Washington Post; basically all the major pro-Democratic establishment media companies. Are they actually gonna talk about this or are they gonna continue ignoring it because Biden's the Democratic frontrunner? Multiple progressive media sites have been talking about this for a couple days now, but we're supposed to believe the mainstream media is more trustworthy while they ignore this issue because it might hurt their preferred Democratic candidate. I guarantee that if someone had accused Sanders of sexual assault the mainstream media would be all over it and calling for him to drop out immediately.

[Vassenor]

So from googling "Joe Biden sexual assault" and "Joe Biden Tara Reade" I'm seeing a bunch of sites including Huffington Post, Vox, Newsweek, and Fox News have articles about this accusation. However, nothing on this so far from CNN, MSNBC, New York Times, Washington Post; basically all the major pro-Democratic establishment media companies. Are they actually gonna talk about this or are they gonna continue ignoring it because Biden's the Democratic frontrunner? Multiple progressive media sites have been talking about this for a couple days now, but we're supposed to believe the mainstream media is more trustworthy while they ignore this issue because it might hurt their preferred Democratic candidate. I guarantee that if someone had accused Sanders of sexual assault the mainstream media would be all over it and calling for him to drop out immediately.

And you base that claim on what evidence?

[Moscareinas]

i'm just here to raise one eyebrow at that title, don't mind me

[Shrillland]

i'm just here to raise one eyebrow at that title, don't mind me

Hey, I've got to think of some way to lighten this load on this now distracted election.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

i'm just here to raise one eyebrow at that title, don't mind me

I'm not happy with the slight implication of Biden catching it, but I think that's accidental. I think it's meant to mean COVID-19 is upstaging the election subject?

Let's suggest something better, I'm sure the OP will listen.

[Moscareinas]

i'm just here to raise one eyebrow at that title, don't mind me

I'm not happy with the slight implication of Biden catching it, but I think that's accidental. I think it's meant to mean COVID-19 is upstaging the election subject?

Let's suggest something better, I'm sure the OP will listen.

nah, i mean no malice, just something i'd do myself if i had the chance and the, uhm, aesthetics

only that i'd replace this inhuman virus with, say, this

[Nobel Hobos 2]

I'm not happy with the slight implication of Biden catching it, but I think that's accidental. I think it's meant to mean COVID-19 is upstaging the election subject?

Let's suggest something better, I'm sure the OP will listen.

nah, i mean no malice, just something i'd do myself if i had the chance and the, uhm, aesthetics

only that i'd replace this inhuman virus with, say, this

An even more positive asteroid is this one.

Why is it positive? Well last year certain irresponsible media outlets headlined that it "might" hit Earth. Understandably this created some alarm. But the whole time they knew from NASA that the asteroid "might" hit Earth some time in the distant future, this time around it's 100% going to miss us. NASA have tracked it for years, there wasn't any serious doubt about that.

It's coming by in April and will apparently be visible through amateur telescopes.

(I was going to post about this in the happy lollipops thread but I couldn't make it happy enough)

[Blargoblarg]

So from googling "Joe Biden sexual assault" and "Joe Biden Tara Reade" I'm seeing a bunch of sites including Huffington Post, Vox, Newsweek, and Fox News have articles about this accusation. However, nothing on this so far from CNN, MSNBC, New York Times, Washington Post; basically all the major pro-Democratic establishment media companies. Are they actually gonna talk about this or are they gonna continue ignoring it because Biden's the Democratic frontrunner? Multiple progressive media sites have been talking about this for a couple days now, but we're supposed to believe the mainstream media is more trustworthy while they ignore this issue because it might hurt their preferred Democratic candidate. I guarantee that if someone had accused Sanders of sexual assault the mainstream media would be all over it and calling for him to drop out immediately.

And you base that claim on what evidence?

Remember back a couple months ago, when Warren was still in the race and she tried to claim Sanders was a sexist and that he had told her that a woman couldn't be elected president? I and several others found that ridiculous since Sanders has been saying he believes a woman could be elected president since 1987, but anyway the mainstream media, especially CNN and MSNBC, made that into a major thing. I particularly remember a debate hosted by CNN a few days after that, where one of the moderators asked Sanders why he had said that, and he denied saying it, and immediately that same moderator asked Warren how she felt when Sanders said that. And that's just one of several examples of the mainstream media's bias against Sanders that I can remember off the top of my head.

[Thermodolia]

So from googling "Joe Biden sexual assault" and "Joe Biden Tara Reade" I'm seeing a bunch of sites including Huffington Post, Vox, Newsweek, and Fox News have articles about this accusation. However, nothing on this so far from CNN, MSNBC, New York Times, Washington Post; basically all the major pro-Democratic establishment media companies. Are they actually gonna talk about this or are they gonna continue ignoring it because Biden's the Democratic frontrunner? Multiple progressive media sites have been talking about this for a couple days now, but we're supposed to believe the mainstream media is more trustworthy while they ignore this issue because it might hurt their preferred Democratic candidate. I guarantee that if someone had accused Sanders of sexual assault the mainstream media would be all over it and calling for him to drop out immediately.

I guess believe all women only matters when those women don’t accuse your guys