2020 US General Election Thread VI: Covid for VP!

[Post War America]

Did any of you watch Joe Biden's speech today?

I thought it was very good. VP Biden is back after an extended hiatus.

It was fine I guess.

Not the great speech the Dem establishment says it is, probably better than most of Biden's detractors care to admit.

[Cisairse]

Every third party and unaligned voter wants to think their vote is the belle of the ball. Yet counter intuitively they carve themselves into ever increasing intractable fracturing to the point they don't become worth courting. If you lose two votes chasing one, you've wasted your time. Spending time trying to string together the People's Front of Judah and the Judain's People's Front when knitted together that coalition is only worth half a point or a point and in doing so you ignored a larger demographic that isn't as into political hipsterism, you've wasted your time.

I'm empathetic to the third party vote because I've been doing it practically since I could vote before a lot of this board was even born. I've grown immune to the level of smug self satisfaction of my confreres as if we were the only voters of integrity. This getting into a race to the bottom where third party voters and major party voters do the dozens to see how much they can call the other out for not giving a shit or whatever misses the point, and I'm afraid its' on the side of the third party folk. Your level of purity or how finely crafted and immovable your platform is misses the point. If you want third party votes to matter even slightly enough to get that 5% (and if you don't know what's important about 5% and why its important, are you really interested in third parties or do you just think it makes you sound cool?) you have to form a coalition. I don't know who gave you the impression that elections are won by being the rightest or the most ideologically pure, it's by getting more people to vote with you than against you. If you're going to dogmatically scold major party supporters for shaming you into voting for them...well, it's not going to work for you either.

Never mind that if you're a third party voter only every four years and somehow think that's going to topple the major parties, I ask again...are you really interested in third parties are do you just want to look cool?

Thing is tho that major party voters, and in this case especially the Dems wanna have it both ways where people who criticize them from the left are both so small as to be safe to ignore, while simultaneously to blame for every Democratic loss in the past decade. I really just want them to decide whether the votes from the left are important or not, and if not leave them the fuck alone rather than throwing a tantrum when they decide that their candidates are insufficient.

I'm pretty sure that Joe Biden adopting half of Sanders's and Warren's platforms is a pretty clear signal that they believe leftist votes are important.

[South Odreria 2]

Thing is tho that major party voters, and in this case especially the Dems wanna have it both ways where people who criticize them from the left are both so small as to be safe to ignore, while simultaneously to blame for every Democratic loss in the past decade. I really just want them to decide whether the votes from the left are important or not, and if not leave them the fuck alone rather than throwing a tantrum when they decide that their candidates are insufficient.

I'm pretty sure that Joe Biden adopting half of Sanders's and Warren's platforms is a pretty clear signal that they believe leftist votes are important.

Well yeah, Biden is a better politician than Hillary’s army of psychosis.

[Cisairse]

I'm pretty sure that Joe Biden adopting half of Sanders's and Warren's platforms is a pretty clear signal that they believe leftist votes are important.

Well yeah, Biden is a better politician than Hillary’s army of psychosis.

Without a doubt

[The Andromeda Island Group]

Did any of you watch Joe Biden's speech today?

I thought it was very good. VP Biden is back after an extended hiatus.

Don't you get it? Joe Biden isn't supposed to maintain his dignity and call for healing. That's weakness.

Instead, Biden should use twitter to publish every little thought that pops into his head. He should also use childish nicknames for his political opponents. That'll show all the haters who's in charge.

MAGA!

[Gormwood]

^^This. If you decide that left wing voters are permanently irrelevant non democrats, you can’t also blame them for every election defeat.

So we're not allowed to call out the spite voters then?

[South Odreria 2]

^^This. If you decide that left wing voters are permanently irrelevant non democrats, you can’t also blame them for every election defeat.

So we're not allowed to call out the spite voters then?

You’re allowed to do lots of things to help Republicans win elections, it’s a free country.

[Post War America]

Thing is tho that major party voters, and in this case especially the Dems wanna have it both ways where people who criticize them from the left are both so small as to be safe to ignore, while simultaneously to blame for every Democratic loss in the past decade. I really just want them to decide whether the votes from the left are important or not, and if not leave them the fuck alone rather than throwing a tantrum when they decide that their candidates are insufficient.

I'm pretty sure that Joe Biden adopting half of Sanders's and Warren's platforms is a pretty clear signal that they believe leftist votes are important.

Indeed, as is, its encouraging. The ultimate question comes during the general campaign, how much of that will get sacrificed in an attempt to secure the vote of suburban whites and Never Trump Republicans?

[Cannot think of a name]

^^This. If you decide that left wing voters are permanently irrelevant non democrats, you can’t also blame them for every election defeat.

No one has decided anything of the sort nor are they blamed for every election defeat. This is the self importance of the third party vote talking, not reality. Don't conflate a turf war you're having on some corner of the internet with actual party politics.

[Cisairse]

I'm pretty sure that Joe Biden adopting half of Sanders's and Warren's platforms is a pretty clear signal that they believe leftist votes are important.

Indeed, as is, its encouraging. The ultimate question comes during the general campaign, how much of that will get sacrificed in an attempt to secure the vote of suburban whites and Never Trump Republicans?

Good question, and I guess we'll see. Biden seems to have picked the "We need to expand Obamacare, not repeal it" message as his lede – to the progressives, he's saying he'll push for universal healthcare; to the moderates, he's signaling opposition to "radical" change. Etc.

Overall I think he's got it right so far, as a far-leftist myself.

[The Andromeda Island Group]

So we're not allowed to call out the spite voters then?

You’re allowed to do lots of things to help Republicans win elections, it’s a free country.

Like splitting the anti-Republican vote between Democrats and Greens?

There's a reason the Green Party in Montana is essentially being funded by GOP operatives.
There's also a reason why the Greens used to do so well in New Mexico.
New Mexico Democrats knew the score, which is why GREEN stood for...

Getting
Republicans
Elected
Every
November

[South Odreria 2]

^^This. If you decide that left wing voters are permanently irrelevant non democrats, you can’t also blame them for every election defeat.

No one has decided anything of the sort nor are they blamed for every election defeat. This is the self importance of the third party vote talking, not reality. Don't conflate a turf war you're having on some corner of the internet with actual party politics.

I mean, some people definitely do. I agree they don’t have much influence in the party right now, due to Biden not hiring Hillary’s most deranged cultists.

[Asle Leopolka]

^^This. If you decide that left wing voters are permanently irrelevant non democrats, you can’t also blame them for every election defeat.

So we're not allowed to call out the spite voters then?

Calling out and shaming voters is an excellent strategy to lose voters.

[Gormwood]

So we're not allowed to call out the spite voters then?

Calling out and shaming voters is an excellent strategy to lose voters.

Lose voters that were never there to begin with? Gotta pander to the Judean People's Front eh.

[-SARS-]

^^This. If you decide that left wing voters are permanently irrelevant non democrats, you can’t also blame them for every election defeat.

No one has decided anything of the sort nor are they blamed for every election defeat. This is the self importance of the third party vote talking, not reality. Don't conflate a turf war you're having on some corner of the internet with actual party politics.

It's also a bit silly to talk about "left wing" voters like they're all one thing. It does make a difference how far left you are looking. Some are worth pursuing more than others depending on how much it takes to bring them in.

[Post War America]

No one has decided anything of the sort nor are they blamed for every election defeat. This is the self importance of the third party vote talking, not reality. Don't conflate a turf war you're having on some corner of the internet with actual party politics.

It's also a bit silly to talk about "left wing" voters like they're all one thing. It does make a difference how far left you are looking. Some are worth pursuing more than others depending on how much it takes to bring them in.

There also the assumption that everyone who will "Vote Blue No Matter Who" is part of a uniform pack of moderates who would oppose any substantially left leaning policies, which is not the case. I'd suspect that chasing some leftist votes would require policies that aren't all that unpopular among the core of the democratic voter base.

[Post War America]

Calling out and shaming voters is an excellent strategy to lose voters.

Lose voters that were never there to begin with? Gotta pander to the Judean People's Front eh.

I mean, if they're just the Judean People's Front than its something else that keeps causing you to lose. Otherwise, those irrelevant voters might actually be worth chasing.

[Kannap]

You’re allowed to do lots of things to help Republicans win elections, it’s a free country.

Like splitting the anti-Republican vote between Democrats and Greens?

There's a reason the Green Party in Montana is essentially being funded by GOP operatives.
There's also a reason why the Greens used to do so well in New Mexico.
New Mexico Democrats knew the score, which is why GREEN stood for...

Getting
Republicans
Elected
Every
November

Entertaining the idea that this silly notion is true, why aren't Democrats funding a third right-wing party?

[The Andromeda Island Group]

Like splitting the anti-Republican vote between Democrats and Greens?

There's a reason the Green Party in Montana is essentially being funded by GOP operatives.
There's also a reason why the Greens used to do so well in New Mexico.
New Mexico Democrats knew the score, which is why GREEN stood for...

Getting
Republicans
Elected
Every
November

Entertaining the idea that this silly notion is true, why aren't Democrats funding a third right-wing party?

I'm sure the Democratic candidates in New Mexico who lost by slim margins due to having Green opponents think that the GOP's divide and conquer strategy is more than a silly notion.

The Republicans who are behind the funding of the GOP-assisted resurgence of the Green party in Montana would be ecstatic to know that people like you see their efforts as a silly notion.

Kannap, you can vote for whoever you like, but don't pretend that these things, which have actually happened and are actually happening, are just silly notions. Such smugness does nothing to help your cause.

[Cisairse]

If the Øptimus and Morning Consult polls from this week hold up for the general, Biden will defeat Trump by a greater popular vote margin than any election since President Reagan's 49-state landslide against former Vice President Mondale in '84.

[Cisairse]

If the Øptimus and Morning Consult polls from this week hold up for the general, Biden will defeat Trump by a greater popular vote margin than any election since President Reagan's 49-state landslide against former Vice President Mondale in '84.

Like imagine waking up on Wednesday and this is the map:

[Kannap]

Entertaining the idea that this silly notion is true, why aren't Democrats funding a third right-wing party?

1. I'm sure the Democratic candidates in New Mexico who lost by slim margins due to having Green opponents think that the GOP's divide and conquer strategy is more than a silly notion.

2. The Republicans who are behind the funding of the GOP-assisted resurgence of the Green party in Montana would be ecstatic to know that people like you see their efforts as a silly notion.

Kannap, you can vote for whoever you like, but don't pretend that these things, which have actually happened and are actually happening, are just silly notions. Such smugness does nothing to help your cause.

1. The Democratic party in New Mexico should probably take the chance to evaluate why they lost voters to Green Party candidates and how they can win voters back.

2. Perhaps the GOP would have a much more difficult time funding the Green Party to divide the left if the DNC adopted some of the Green Party platform into their platform and merge the Green Party with their party.

[San Lumen]

If the Øptimus and Morning Consult polls from this week hold up for the general, Biden will defeat Trump by a greater popular vote margin than any election since President Reagan's 49-state landslide against former Vice President Mondale in '84.

Like imagine waking up on Wednesday and this is the map:

That would be absolutely freaking amazing and we'd have breathing room in the Senate for 2022 which is difficult map for Republicans anyway. Plus it means an expanded House majority and the damage in state legislatures would likely be massive

[The Andromeda Island Group]

https://ballotpedia.org/United_States_Senate_election_in_Arizona,_2018

U.S. Rep. Kyrsten Sinema (D) defeated U.S. Rep. Martha McSally (R) in the general election for U.S. Senate in Arizona on November 6, 2018. Sinema's victory was the closest U.S. Senate election in the state since former Sen. Barry Goldwater (R) won re-election to his third and final term by fewer than 10,000 votes over Democrat Bill Schulz in 1980.

Incumbent Sen. Jeff Flake (R), who was first elected in 2012, did not seek re-election.

Angela Green (G) appeared on the ballot, but she withdrew from the race and endorsed Sinema on November 1, 2018.

Even the Green Party candidate knew that her presence in the race could have tilted the Arizona Senate seat to the Republicans.
Instead, she looked at the big picture and decided to back Sinema, who won an exceptionally close race.

Instead of self-righteous smugness, she chose to do the right thing. She chose to help unite the left in what was clearly hotly contested election between left & -right.

Not saying that this should apply to every third-party candidate or supporter. But to say that the GOP divide and conquer strategy is a silly notion? Facts say otherwise.

[Shrillland]

Polls are now closed(or votes being counted, whatever at this point...)in EDT Indiana.