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2020 US General Election Thread VI: Covid for VP!

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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How do You Plan to Vote This Year?

At a Polling Place
40
22%
By Mail(If Allowed)
42
23%
Early Voting
6
3%
I Won't Vote
14
8%
I Can't Vote(To Young/Outside the US)
80
44%
 
Total votes : 182

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Celritannia
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9608
Founded: Nov 10, 2010
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Celritannia » Sat Apr 25, 2020 11:45 am

Vassenor wrote:
Celritannia wrote:
Sorry, what? I am only getting bits of this XD


It's OK If You're A Republican.


Ahhh.

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South Odreria 2
Minister
 
Posts: 3100
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby South Odreria 2 » Sat Apr 25, 2020 11:49 am

Myrensis wrote:Yeah, the whole "She didn't say anything out of respect for him." bit is...really weird. It tracks with her original story that he had rubbed her neck and shoulders uncomfortably, but "She didn't want to tell anyone that he sexually assaulted her because she knew he was a busy man and didn't want to make things difficult for him." is kind of...odd.

That kind of odd behavior makes sense for someone taken advantage of by a high-status person they respect. It also makes sense for someone wanting to exaggerate an event after the fact to hurt someone they dislike. So it's hard to say.
Last edited by South Odreria 2 on Sat Apr 25, 2020 11:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Kannap
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 60617
Founded: May 07, 2012
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Kannap » Sat Apr 25, 2020 2:29 pm

Gormwood wrote:
Celritannia wrote:If Sexual Assault didn't stop trump from becoming President, what makes anyone think it will stop Biden?

IOKIYAR.


It's also okay if you're a Democrat.

It's also never okay no matter who you are.

These are three different opinions on the idea that different people have.
Last edited by Kannap on Sat Apr 25, 2020 2:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Telconi
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Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Telconi » Sat Apr 25, 2020 2:43 pm

Corrian wrote:
San Lumen wrote:who would you like?

I'd be fine with like, almost anyone else being flaunted over Harris.


Biden could go to Sing Sing and pick an inmate number out of a hat and make a better pick than Harris.
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Diahon
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Founded: Apr 01, 2020
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Diahon » Sat Apr 25, 2020 2:46 pm

FLEE.

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Kannap
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 60617
Founded: May 07, 2012
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Kannap » Sat Apr 25, 2020 2:54 pm

Telconi wrote:
Corrian wrote:I'd be fine with like, almost anyone else being flaunted over Harris.


Biden could go to Sing Sing and pick an inmate number out of a hat and make a better pick than Harris.


Would be much cooler to collect a pool of inmate numbers of people incarcerated by Harris and draw from that instead.
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Inhorto
Envoy
 
Posts: 215
Founded: Jun 27, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Inhorto » Sat Apr 25, 2020 3:23 pm

Telconi wrote:
Corrian wrote:I'd be fine with like, almost anyone else being flaunted over Harris.


Biden could go to Sing Sing and pick an inmate number out of a hat and make a better pick than Harris.

Why? She's African American, passionate, a woman, has a relatively good record (Republicans aren't going to come after someone for being a tough prosecutor; that's what they like), and young. She has a lot of the energy that Biden struggles to capture. I'd agree that she isn't the best, but she's a solid pick.
conlanger | bibliophile | Potterhead | NS Parliament: Joseph Yu of the Unity and Consolidation Party (UCP), Former Prime Minister (1 May - 1 July)


"Differences of habit and language are nothing at all if our aims are identical and our hearts are open." — Albus Dumbledore

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Valrifell
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 27328
Founded: Aug 18, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Valrifell » Sat Apr 25, 2020 3:33 pm

Inhorto wrote:
Telconi wrote:
Biden could go to Sing Sing and pick an inmate number out of a hat and make a better pick than Harris.

Why? She's African American, passionate, a woman, has a relatively good record (Republicans aren't going to come after someone for being a tough prosecutor; that's what they like), and young. She has a lot of the energy that Biden struggles to capture. I'd agree that she isn't the best, but she's a solid pick.


She's more or less ethically compromised so blatantly to a degree that's hard to find even in Washington.
Sint Musis socii Charites, Furia omnis abesto

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Duvniask
Senator
 
Posts: 4522
Founded: Aug 30, 2012
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Duvniask » Sat Apr 25, 2020 3:35 pm

Valrifell wrote:
Inhorto wrote:Why? She's African American, passionate, a woman, has a relatively good record (Republicans aren't going to come after someone for being a tough prosecutor; that's what they like), and young. She has a lot of the energy that Biden struggles to capture. I'd agree that she isn't the best, but she's a solid pick.


She's more or less ethically compromised so blatantly to a degree that's hard to find even in Washington.

Imagine going from "that little girl was me" to being Biden's VP.
Out of the ashes
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To all men who bend their will

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Northern Davincia
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16711
Founded: Jun 10, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Northern Davincia » Sat Apr 25, 2020 3:35 pm

Inhorto wrote:
Telconi wrote:
Biden could go to Sing Sing and pick an inmate number out of a hat and make a better pick than Harris.

Why? She's African American, passionate, a woman, has a relatively good record (Republicans aren't going to come after someone for being a tough prosecutor; that's what they like), and young. She has a lot of the energy that Biden struggles to capture. I'd agree that she isn't the best, but she's a solid pick.

She's a tyrant in waiting.
Hoppean Libertarian, Acolyte of von Mises, Protector of Our Sacred Liberties
Economic Left/Right: 9.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.05
Conserative Morality wrote:"Two gin-scented tears trickled down the sides of his nose. But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Hoppe."

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Inhorto
Envoy
 
Posts: 215
Founded: Jun 27, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Inhorto » Sat Apr 25, 2020 3:37 pm

Valrifell wrote:
Inhorto wrote:Why? She's African American, passionate, a woman, has a relatively good record (Republicans aren't going to come after someone for being a tough prosecutor; that's what they like), and young. She has a lot of the energy that Biden struggles to capture. I'd agree that she isn't the best, but she's a solid pick.


She's more or less ethically compromised so blatantly to a degree that's hard to find even in Washington.

Northern Davincia wrote:
Inhorto wrote:Why? She's African American, passionate, a woman, has a relatively good record (Republicans aren't going to come after someone for being a tough prosecutor; that's what they like), and young. She has a lot of the energy that Biden struggles to capture. I'd agree that she isn't the best, but she's a solid pick.

She's a tyrant in waiting.


To both of these: in what way? I'm asking you to divorce your political leanings for a moment and consider her potential as a candidate. I believe it's objectively a good choice.
conlanger | bibliophile | Potterhead | NS Parliament: Joseph Yu of the Unity and Consolidation Party (UCP), Former Prime Minister (1 May - 1 July)


"Differences of habit and language are nothing at all if our aims are identical and our hearts are open." — Albus Dumbledore

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Post War America
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7320
Founded: Sep 05, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Post War America » Sat Apr 25, 2020 3:38 pm

Duvniask wrote:
Valrifell wrote:
She's more or less ethically compromised so blatantly to a degree that's hard to find even in Washington.

Imagine going from "that little girl was me" to being Biden's VP.


Anything to prevent the social democratic wing of the Democratic Party from gaining any influence.
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Valrifell
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 27328
Founded: Aug 18, 2013
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Valrifell » Sat Apr 25, 2020 3:39 pm

Inhorto wrote:
Valrifell wrote:
She's more or less ethically compromised so blatantly to a degree that's hard to find even in Washington.

Northern Davincia wrote:She's a tyrant in waiting.


To both of these: in what way? I'm asking you to divorce your political leanings for a moment and consider her potential as a candidate. I believe it's objectively a good choice.


Oh sure, from a surface-layer optics perspective she's not the worst choice, and you can definitely argue that those matter more than the deeper issues we're miffed about.

But generally one should not take joy in their role as prosecutor, withholding evidence to the defense, and generally being extraordinarily vindictive against the accused. Those aren't attributes I like in politicians.
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Post War America
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7320
Founded: Sep 05, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Post War America » Sat Apr 25, 2020 3:39 pm

Inhorto wrote:
Valrifell wrote:
She's more or less ethically compromised so blatantly to a degree that's hard to find even in Washington.

Northern Davincia wrote:She's a tyrant in waiting.


To both of these: in what way? I'm asking you to divorce your political leanings for a moment and consider her potential as a candidate. I believe it's objectively a good choice.


Her record includes the delightful action of locking people up for their kid's truancy, and standing against criminal justice reform, these are not good things.
Ceterum autem censeo Carthaginem delendam esse
Proudly Banned from the 10000 Islands
For those who care
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Not Post-Apocalyptic
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Social Libertarian: -6.00
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Gravlen wrote:The famous Bowling Green Massacre is yesterday's news. Today it's all about the Cricket Blue Carnage. Tomorrow it'll be about the Curling Yellow Annihilation.

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Northern Davincia
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16711
Founded: Jun 10, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Northern Davincia » Sat Apr 25, 2020 3:39 pm


Excellent, I can begin my Ancap warband now.
Inhorto wrote:
Valrifell wrote:
She's more or less ethically compromised so blatantly to a degree that's hard to find even in Washington.

Northern Davincia wrote:She's a tyrant in waiting.


To both of these: in what way? I'm asking you to divorce your political leanings for a moment and consider her potential as a candidate. I believe it's objectively a good choice.

She is perfectly qualified, but her record will dissuade many independents and some Democrats, maybe. We cannot separate our political leanings in evaluating a candidate.
Hoppean Libertarian, Acolyte of von Mises, Protector of Our Sacred Liberties
Economic Left/Right: 9.75
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Conserative Morality wrote:"Two gin-scented tears trickled down the sides of his nose. But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Hoppe."

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Cannot think of a name
Post Czar
 
Posts: 31610
Founded: Antiquity
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Cannot think of a name » Sat Apr 25, 2020 3:41 pm

Duvniask wrote:
Valrifell wrote:
She's more or less ethically compromised so blatantly to a degree that's hard to find even in Washington.

Imagine going from "that little girl was me" to being Biden's VP.

Team of rivals.
Everything for the cat.

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Inhorto
Envoy
 
Posts: 215
Founded: Jun 27, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Inhorto » Sat Apr 25, 2020 3:45 pm

Post War America wrote:
Inhorto wrote:

To both of these: in what way? I'm asking you to divorce your political leanings for a moment and consider her potential as a candidate. I believe it's objectively a good choice.


Her record includes the delightful action of locking people up for their kid's truancy, and standing against criminal justice reform, these are not good things.

But the people that care about stuff like this, the people who are preoccupied with judicial reform, aren't the ones that really matter here. To win, Biden needs to shore up support among the blue-collar workers in states like Michigan that Obama won but Clinton lost. Those people don't really care that Harris was a particularly harsh prosecutor. What Biden does need is a young, enthusiastic, well-spoken woman with national name recognition. Kamala Harris is one of few in that field.

Plus, anything can be given a spin. She was just a strong prosecutor with a history of bringing criminals to justice or what have you. Her being an aggressive prosecutor is just going to turn off progressives who won't really be that important a demographic come election. African Americans and other minorities will, however.
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Kannap
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 60617
Founded: May 07, 2012
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Kannap » Sat Apr 25, 2020 3:47 pm

Inhorto wrote:
Post War America wrote:
Her record includes the delightful action of locking people up for their kid's truancy, and standing against criminal justice reform, these are not good things.

But the people that care about stuff like this, the people who are preoccupied with judicial reform, aren't the ones that really matter here. To win, Biden needs to shore up support among the blue-collar workers in states like Michigan that Obama won but Clinton lost. Those people don't really care that Harris was a particularly harsh prosecutor. What Biden does need is a young, enthusiastic, well-spoken woman with national name recognition. Kamala Harris is one of few in that field.

Plus, anything can be given a spin. She was just a strong prosecutor with a history of bringing criminals to justice or what have you. Her being an aggressive prosecutor is just going to turn off progressives who won't really be that important a demographic come election. African Americans and other minorities will, however.


Will the amount of voters brought on board by Kamala outweigh the number of voters turned off of a Biden/Harris ticket?
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Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 33657
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Telconi » Sat Apr 25, 2020 3:51 pm

Kannap wrote:
Inhorto wrote:But the people that care about stuff like this, the people who are preoccupied with judicial reform, aren't the ones that really matter here. To win, Biden needs to shore up support among the blue-collar workers in states like Michigan that Obama won but Clinton lost. Those people don't really care that Harris was a particularly harsh prosecutor. What Biden does need is a young, enthusiastic, well-spoken woman with national name recognition. Kamala Harris is one of few in that field.

Plus, anything can be given a spin. She was just a strong prosecutor with a history of bringing criminals to justice or what have you. Her being an aggressive prosecutor is just going to turn off progressives who won't really be that important a demographic come election. African Americans and other minorities will, however.


Will the amount of voters brought on board by Kamala outweigh the number of voters turned off of a Biden/Harris ticket?


"Is zero less than any number ever?"
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PRO:
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-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
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-Life
-Limited Government
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-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

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Inhorto
Envoy
 
Posts: 215
Founded: Jun 27, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Inhorto » Sat Apr 25, 2020 3:51 pm

Kannap wrote:
Inhorto wrote:But the people that care about stuff like this, the people who are preoccupied with judicial reform, aren't the ones that really matter here. To win, Biden needs to shore up support among the blue-collar workers in states like Michigan that Obama won but Clinton lost. Those people don't really care that Harris was a particularly harsh prosecutor. What Biden does need is a young, enthusiastic, well-spoken woman with national name recognition. Kamala Harris is one of few in that field.

Plus, anything can be given a spin. She was just a strong prosecutor with a history of bringing criminals to justice or what have you. Her being an aggressive prosecutor is just going to turn off progressives who won't really be that important a demographic come election. African Americans and other minorities will, however.


Will the amount of voters brought on board by Kamala outweigh the number of voters turned off of a Biden/Harris ticket?

Definitively. The people who would be turned off by a Biden/Harris ticket are the same types of people that would be turned off by Biden himself. Biden doesn't actually have to appeal to young, progressive voters, which is why Warren will certainly not be his pick. They don't vote. And if you don't vote, you don't matter. That's really it.

Kamala is passionate and establishment. She can rile people up and balance out Biden's fumbles. It's literally the perfect mix. It's going to either be her or Whitmer. My bet is on the latter, though.
conlanger | bibliophile | Potterhead | NS Parliament: Joseph Yu of the Unity and Consolidation Party (UCP), Former Prime Minister (1 May - 1 July)


"Differences of habit and language are nothing at all if our aims are identical and our hearts are open." — Albus Dumbledore

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Post War America
Negotiator
 
Posts: 7320
Founded: Sep 05, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Post War America » Sat Apr 25, 2020 3:52 pm

Inhorto wrote:
Post War America wrote:
Her record includes the delightful action of locking people up for their kid's truancy, and standing against criminal justice reform, these are not good things.

But the people that care about stuff like this, the people who are preoccupied with judicial reform, aren't the ones that really matter here. To win, Biden needs to shore up support among the blue-collar workers in states like Michigan that Obama won but Clinton lost. Those people don't really care that Harris was a particularly harsh prosecutor. What Biden does need is a young, enthusiastic, well-spoken woman with national name recognition. Kamala Harris is one of few in that field.

Plus, anything can be given a spin. She was just a strong prosecutor with a history of bringing criminals to justice or what have you. Her being an aggressive prosecutor is just going to turn off progressives who won't really be that important a demographic come election. African Americans and other minorities will, however.


I'm pretty sure the people you're talking about would care more about a prosecutorial record than issues of identity. Quite frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if being a black woman turned off a not insubstantial chunk. Really insisting on, for lack of a better term, diversity picks is done to shore up liberal and leftist support than anything else.
Ceterum autem censeo Carthaginem delendam esse
Proudly Banned from the 10000 Islands
For those who care
A PMT Social Democratic Genepunk/Post Cyberpunk Nation the practices big (atomic) stick diplomacy
Not Post-Apocalyptic
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Social Libertarian: -6.00
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Zurkerx
Game Moderator
 
Posts: 8002
Founded: Jan 20, 2011
Anarchy

Postby Zurkerx » Sat Apr 25, 2020 3:53 pm

Myrensis wrote:
Zurkerx wrote:
Indeed though we should note it doesn't specifically reference that incident. As Corrian said, if Reade was sexually assaulted like she was, why would the mother "she didn't want to ruin the senator's credibility"? This case is baffling and there are so many loops to jump through that her case is just weak. Now, I think there's a good chance that Biden didn't respect his space and it likely creep her out. After all, she didn't mention the grotesque details until about a year after she made the allegation. As I (and Reagan) would say: Trust, but verify.


Yeah, the whole "She didn't say anything out of respect for him." bit is...really weird. It tracks with her original story that he had rubbed her neck and shoulders uncomfortably, but "She didn't want to tell anyone that he sexually assaulted her because she knew he was a busy man and didn't want to make things difficult for him." is kind of...odd.


Indeed, there's just so many conflicting things here. It just doesn't make sense. That's not to say that Biden did something, it's possible he violated her personal space but her account went from that and rapidly evolved to "he penetrated me". Maybe the investigation can clear things up and I'll trust her, but I'm skeptical.
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Inhorto
Envoy
 
Posts: 215
Founded: Jun 27, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Inhorto » Sat Apr 25, 2020 3:56 pm

Post War America wrote:
Inhorto wrote:But the people that care about stuff like this, the people who are preoccupied with judicial reform, aren't the ones that really matter here. To win, Biden needs to shore up support among the blue-collar workers in states like Michigan that Obama won but Clinton lost. Those people don't really care that Harris was a particularly harsh prosecutor. What Biden does need is a young, enthusiastic, well-spoken woman with national name recognition. Kamala Harris is one of few in that field.

Plus, anything can be given a spin. She was just a strong prosecutor with a history of bringing criminals to justice or what have you. Her being an aggressive prosecutor is just going to turn off progressives who won't really be that important a demographic come election. African Americans and other minorities will, however.


I'm pretty sure the people you're talking about would care more about a prosecutorial record than issues of identity. Quite frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if being a black woman turned off a not insubstantial chunk. Really insisting on, for lack of a better term, diversity picks is done to shore up liberal and leftist support than anything else.

If those same working-class, blue-collar voters voted for Obama, a black man, in '08 and '12, they'll vote for a black woman as VP in '20. Also note that elderly African Americans, those who vote the most, are rather socially conservative. A tough on crime black woman isn't going to deter them.
conlanger | bibliophile | Potterhead | NS Parliament: Joseph Yu of the Unity and Consolidation Party (UCP), Former Prime Minister (1 May - 1 July)


"Differences of habit and language are nothing at all if our aims are identical and our hearts are open." — Albus Dumbledore

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Gormwood
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 14733
Founded: Mar 25, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Gormwood » Sat Apr 25, 2020 3:56 pm

Kannap wrote:
Gormwood wrote:IOKIYAR.


It's also okay if you're a Democrat.

It's also never okay no matter who you are.

These are three different opinions on the idea that different people have.

So why are leftists throwing a fit about Biden allegedly heing a rapist then?
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Northern Davincia
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16711
Founded: Jun 10, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Northern Davincia » Sat Apr 25, 2020 3:56 pm

Inhorto wrote:
Kannap wrote:
Will the amount of voters brought on board by Kamala outweigh the number of voters turned off of a Biden/Harris ticket?

Definitively. The people who would be turned off by a Biden/Harris ticket are the same types of people that would be turned off by Biden himself. Biden doesn't actually have to appeal to young, progressive voters, which is why Warren will certainly not be his pick. They don't vote. And if you don't vote, you don't matter. That's really it.

Kamala is passionate and establishment. She can rile people up and balance out Biden's fumbles. It's literally the perfect mix. It's going to either be her or Whitmer. My bet is on the latter, though.

To counter this, Trump will double his efforts to appear as the candidate of criminal justice reform, endearing himself to African Americans.
Hoppean Libertarian, Acolyte of von Mises, Protector of Our Sacred Liberties
Economic Left/Right: 9.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.05
Conserative Morality wrote:"Two gin-scented tears trickled down the sides of his nose. But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Hoppe."

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