2020 US General Election Thread VI: Covid for VP!

[Ngelmish]

I don't think I'm ever going to stop being mildly astonished by how many people fell for the Bernie Sanders' scam, good grief.

Out of curiosity, what makes you call it a scam?

He wouldn't exist without the Democratic Party, or an equivalent, to bash as an institution, has never had to take responsibility or been called to account for the failure to enact any of his supposed goals and has been either inconsistent or taken positions at odds with mainstream progressive humanism on hot button topics, but somehow he's the most honest guy to have run for office and the only one with progressive values, despite being outflanked to his left in two consecutive presidential primaries.

And now what folks are arguing about is precisely that same image he put out. It's a scam.

[Cisairse]

Well then let's hope Biden has a VP that will kick him into gear. Tammy Baldwin is the first cosponsor listed on the Medicare-for-All Act authored by Bernie, and is on Biden's shortlist and has consistently won statewide elections in a swing state Biden likely needs to win. Let's hope.

She would be a great pick, lets hope he goes with her. I think it would also really help show he was reaching out to the left. She would also be the first openly gay Vice President, which is another symbolic act of change that would be an added bonus.

Yeah, she literally has a VP resume that almost seems fake because of how good it is. I'm going to be sad if Biden doesn't pick her.

[Ngelmish]

I don't think I'm ever going to stop being mildly astonished by how many people fell for the Bernie Sanders' scam, good grief.

Bernie was one of those candidates that people projected themselves onto and decided to believe anything they wanted to believe about him, whether or not it was true, to make him seem better than the competition.

Trump is also one of these politicians.

Obama certainly had some of that too. But Bernie, like Trump, is such a self evidently wrong avatar for a lot of his supposed appeal that it still takes me aback.

[Uiiop]

It would certainly be more evidence than the spam of unsubstantiated claims that was supposed to own Torr by her ignoring it. wouldn't?

But like i said i didn't say i definitely did it in the first place so how about them Bonobos?

I mean Torra was the one posting rapist spam and arguing in bad faith, so I totally have the right to call out their bullshit.

In bad faith of me not you until your poor attempts at a call-out came in.

She's willing to hear people out but the responses were viewed as sub-par.

Since the response is jerking unsubstantiated claims and shit she already addressed i'd agree with her.

[Cisairse]

Bernie was one of those candidates that people projected themselves onto and decided to believe anything they wanted to believe about him, whether or not it was true, to make him seem better than the competition.

Trump is also one of these politicians.

Obama certainly had some of that too. But Bernie, like Trump, is such a self evidently wrong avatar for a lot of his supposed appeal that it still takes me aback.

Obama at least stuck to his guns, unlike Bill Clinton who presided as a Republican for three full years of his presidency.

[Uiiop]

Listen here m8teys . I'm actually joe biden. Read My twitter and transcripts and you'll see me admitting it.

Oh no!
I've been exposed as an imposter!

[Ngelmish]

Obama certainly had some of that too. But Bernie, like Trump, is such a self evidently wrong avatar for a lot of his supposed appeal that it still takes me aback.

Obama at least stuck to his guns, unlike Bill Clinton who presided as a Republican for three full years of his presidency.

Bill Clinton would be viewed very favorably by the activist left if Gore had had at least one term to build on his most liberal, long-term initiatives (Kyoto, would be adored in retrospect). Similar to how Reagan was lionized even though it was Bush who solidified most of those gains.

[New Socialist South Africa]

Out of curiosity, what makes you call it a scam?

He wouldn't exist without the Democratic Party, or an equivalent, to bash as an institution, has never had to take responsibility or been called to account for the failure to enact any of his supposed goals and has been either inconsistent or taken positions at odds with mainstream progressive humanism on hot button topics, but somehow he's the most honest guy to have run for office and the only one with progressive values, despite being outflanked to his left in two consecutive presidential primaries.

And now what folks are arguing about is precisely that same image he put out. It's a scam.

I'm a little confused by who outflanked Sanders on the left in 2016? Lessig?

In 2020 I get Gabbard outflanking him on the left on some issues, but I'm also not sure who you mean in that primary either?

[Vassenor]

Out of curiosity, what makes you call it a scam?

He wouldn't exist without the Democratic Party, or an equivalent, to bash as an institution, has never had to take responsibility or been called to account for the failure to enact any of his supposed goals and has been either inconsistent or taken positions at odds with mainstream progressive humanism on hot button topics, but somehow he's the most honest guy to have run for office and the only one with progressive values, despite being outflanked to his left in two consecutive presidential primaries.

And now what folks are arguing about is precisely that same image he put out. It's a scam.

And now people are acting like his not securing the nomination has killed progressive politics forever. Because basically what hes taught us is that activism means nothing and small steps toward progress are worthless. Literally none of the big social change movements happened overnight but apparently this was totally going to be different somehow.

[New haven america]

I mean Torra was the one posting rapist spam and arguing in bad faith, so I totally have the right to call out their bullshit.

In bad faith of me not you until your poor attempts at a call-out came in.

She's willing to hear people out but the responses were viewed as sub-par.

Since the response is jerking unsubstantiated claims and shit she already addressed i'd agree with her.

Except they didn't address anything I posted, they spent their entire avoiding what I posted because it proved them wrong.

[Albrenia]

I can certainly get people being disappointed about Bernie not being the nominee and not liking Biden, the only thing I'd ask those who decide not to vote for Biden when they supported Sanders is if they believe Trump is the same or better than Biden.

Because if Bernie supporters decide not to vote, it's gonna be another 4 years of Trump probably. I don't really want to see what that man will do when he no longer has to worry about re-election.

[Gormwood]

He wouldn't exist without the Democratic Party, or an equivalent, to bash as an institution, has never had to take responsibility or been called to account for the failure to enact any of his supposed goals and has been either inconsistent or taken positions at odds with mainstream progressive humanism on hot button topics, but somehow he's the most honest guy to have run for office and the only one with progressive values, despite being outflanked to his left in two consecutive presidential primaries.

And now what folks are arguing about is precisely that same image he put out. It's a scam.

And now people are acting like his not securing the nomination has killed progressive politics forever. Because basically what hes taught us is that activism means nothing and small steps toward progress are worthless. Literally none of the big social change movements happened overnight but apparently this was totally going to be different somehow.

The only way to bring about progressive revolution now is to give the Republicans 4 more years to permanently kill progressivism!

[Uiiop]

He wouldn't exist without the Democratic Party, or an equivalent, to bash as an institution, has never had to take responsibility or been called to account for the failure to enact any of his supposed goals and has been either inconsistent or taken positions at odds with mainstream progressive humanism on hot button topics, but somehow he's the most honest guy to have run for office and the only one with progressive values, despite being outflanked to his left in two consecutive presidential primaries.

And now what folks are arguing about is precisely that same image he put out. It's a scam.

I'm a little confused by who outflanked Sanders on the left in 2016? Lessig?

In 2020 I get Gabbard outflanking him on the left on some issues, but I'm also not sure who you mean in that primary either?

$20 he's either going to talk immigration or guns.
Immigration he actually seems consistent on(He voted against a bill because of the labor on both fronts then voted for other bills) and guns which even ignoring what's actually left on guns i don't think the people care so much the mainstream cares about it as long as he supports some gun control measures.

[New haven america]

I can certainly get people being disappointed about Bernie not being the nominee and not liking Biden, the only thing I'd ask those who decide not to vote for Biden when they supported Sanders is if they believe Trump is the same or better than Biden.

Because if Bernie supporters decide not to vote, it's gonna be another 4 years of Trump probably. I don't really want to see what that man will do when he no longer has to worry about re-election.

A lot of Bernie supporters are a-ok with that because it punishes the Dems for not picking their guy.

Even though, you know, this time around it was their job to get Bernie the nom spot.

[Gormwood]

I can certainly get people being disappointed about Bernie not being the nominee and not liking Biden, the only thing I'd ask those who decide not to vote for Biden when they supported Sanders is if they believe Trump is the same or better than Biden.

Because if Bernie supporters decide not to vote, it's gonna be another 4 years of Trump probably. I don't really want to see what that man will do when he no longer has to worry about re-election.

A lot of Bernie supporters are a-ok with that because it punishes the Dems for not picking their guy.

Even though, you know, this time around it was their job to get Bernie the nom spot.

Slactivism at its finest. And I voted for Sanders in the primary.

[New Socialist South Africa]

He wouldn't exist without the Democratic Party, or an equivalent, to bash as an institution, has never had to take responsibility or been called to account for the failure to enact any of his supposed goals and has been either inconsistent or taken positions at odds with mainstream progressive humanism on hot button topics, but somehow he's the most honest guy to have run for office and the only one with progressive values, despite being outflanked to his left in two consecutive presidential primaries.

And now what folks are arguing about is precisely that same image he put out. It's a scam.

And now people are acting like his not securing the nomination has killed progressive politics forever. Because basically what hes taught us is that activism means nothing and small steps toward progress are worthless. Literally none of the big social change movements happened overnight but apparently this was totally going to be different somehow.

That wasn't my takeaway from him, and I think he has gotten quite a few people who were disillusioned with politics to become more active in it. We can each have a different takeaway though I guess.

[Vassenor]

To sum things up more succinctly...

[Gormwood]

To sum things up more succinctly...

The Republicans admit Trump is shit but all vote for him. Democrats need a perfect messiah as nominee or they either sit home or vote Trump.

[Ngelmish]

He wouldn't exist without the Democratic Party, or an equivalent, to bash as an institution, has never had to take responsibility or been called to account for the failure to enact any of his supposed goals and has been either inconsistent or taken positions at odds with mainstream progressive humanism on hot button topics, but somehow he's the most honest guy to have run for office and the only one with progressive values, despite being outflanked to his left in two consecutive presidential primaries.

And now what folks are arguing about is precisely that same image he put out. It's a scam.

I'm a little confused by who outflanked Sanders on the left in 2016? Lessig?

In 2020 I get Gabbard outflanking him on the left on some issues, but I'm also not sure who you mean in that primary either?

I'm a little confused by who outflanked Sanders on the left in 2016? Lessig?

In 2020 I get Gabbard outflanking him on the left on some issues, but I'm also not sure who you mean in that primary either?

$20 he's either going to talk immigration or guns.
Immigration he actually seems consistent on(He voted against a bill because of the labor on both fronts then voted for other bills) and guns which even ignoring what's actually left on guns i don't think the people care so much the mainstream cares about it as long as he supports some gun control measures.

Clinton ended up running, authentically given her record, to Sanders' left on both immigration and guns, yes, but, prior to that point O'Malley had outflanked him on guns, immigration, green renovation, and arguably (depending on how much one cares about concrete numbers) things like tax structure, the revolving door of lobbyism, etc. In 2020 it's fair to say that Gabbard, Warren and Castro all managed to creatively get to Sanders' left on different issues at different times.

[Uiiop]

To sum things up more succinctly...

"I don't think we can reach shore with the raft even if we managed to get way from the boast." is more like it.

That and the whole "This boat is alleged to be possessed and kill a man." deal

[Albrenia]

To sum things up more succinctly...

"I don't think we can reach shore with the raft even if we managed to get way from the boast." is more like it.

That and the whole "This boat is alleged to be possessed and kill a man." deal

Still probably better than certain death by drowning. A chance at a better result and all.

[Uiiop]

I'm a little confused by who outflanked Sanders on the left in 2016? Lessig?

In 2020 I get Gabbard outflanking him on the left on some issues, but I'm also not sure who you mean in that primary either?

$20 he's either going to talk immigration or guns.
Immigration he actually seems consistent on(He voted against a bill because of the labor on both fronts then voted for other bills) and guns which even ignoring what's actually left on guns i don't think the people care so much the mainstream cares about it as long as he supports some gun control measures.

Clinton ended up running, authentically given her record, to Sanders' left on both immigration and guns, yes, but, prior to that point O'Malley had outflanked him on guns, immigration, green renovation, and arguably (depending on how much one cares about concrete numbers) things like tax structure, the revolving door of lobbyism, etc. In 2020 it's fair to say that Gabbard, Warren and Castro all managed to creatively get to Sanders' left on different issues at different times.

I was trying to say his past record on immigration might actually be more left than what you're saying.
The logic he used to oppose that one vote is more rooted in leftist criticism on how capitalism exploits immigrant labor than anything else. It's shit Corbinites say.

[New Socialist South Africa]

I'm a little confused by who outflanked Sanders on the left in 2016? Lessig?

In 2020 I get Gabbard outflanking him on the left on some issues, but I'm also not sure who you mean in that primary either?

$20 he's either going to talk immigration or guns.
Immigration he actually seems consistent on(He voted against a bill because of the labor on both fronts then voted for other bills) and guns which even ignoring what's actually left on guns i don't think the people care so much the mainstream cares about it as long as he supports some gun control measures.

Clinton ended up running, authentically given her record, to Sanders' left on both immigration and guns, yes, but, prior to that point O'Malley had outflanked him on guns, immigration, green renovation, and arguably (depending on how much one cares about concrete numbers) things like tax structure, the revolving door of lobbyism, etc. In 2020 it's fair to say that Gabbard, Warren and Castro all managed to creatively get to Sanders' left on different issues at different times.

On certain policies, like guns, immigration and tax structure, I hear you. I'd see some of those as more culturally liberal (particularly in a US sense) than economically left, but fair enough.

[Uiiop]

"I don't think we can reach shore with the raft even if we managed to get way from the boast." is more like it.

That and the whole "This boat is alleged to be possessed and kill a man." deal

Still probably better than certain death by drowning. A chance at a better result and all.

You think there's a chance. They don't.

[Uiiop]

He wouldn't exist without the Democratic Party, or an equivalent, to bash as an institution, has never had to take responsibility or been called to account for the failure to enact any of his supposed goals and has been either inconsistent or taken positions at odds with mainstream progressive humanism on hot button topics, but somehow he's the most honest guy to have run for office and the only one with progressive values, despite being outflanked to his left in two consecutive presidential primaries.

And now what folks are arguing about is precisely that same image he put out. It's a scam.

And now people are acting like his not securing the nomination has killed progressive politics forever. Because basically what hes taught us is that activism means nothing and small steps toward progress are worthless. Literally none of the big social change movements happened overnight but apparently this was totally going to be different somehow.

That's not the pessimistic mood I've been getting. More like "We can do this but not before climate change screws us over. "