Race: Social Construct or Science?

[Bear Stearns]

So are Europeans.

Um… no? There’s two main theories, neither of which say Europeans are from Northern India

Not really. It's more like Pleistocene-era hunter gatherers from the Middle East assimilated Neanderthals already living in Europe, and then they were supplanted by the Indo-Aryan populations who came out of what is today southern Central Asia. Some Indo-Aryans went to Europe, others went east to India.

[New haven america]

So are Europeans.

Um… no? There’s two main theories, neither of which say Europeans are from Northern India

They were saying Europeans aren't European in terms of Origin.

Which is true, most Europeans came from Africa and West Asia.

[Cisairse]

Um… no? There’s two main theories, neither of which say Europeans are from Northern India

Not really. It's more like Pleistocene-era hunter gatherers from the Middle East assimilated Neanderthals already living in Europe, and then they were supplanted by the Indo-Aryan populations who came out of what is today southern Central Asia. Some Indo-Aryans went to Europe, others went east to India.

Exactly.

[Kombinita Socialisma Demokratio]

All I know is that people with green eyes are basically superior, beyond that I'm not really bothered.

You did not state superior to whom. I therefore assume that I, as someone with green eyes, have superior eyesight to someone with no eyes.

[Ayytaly]

The physical and hereditary traits which often (but not always) occur together are genetic, but how exactly the lines are drawn to make them into races is totally social and/or pseudoscience. The traits are not very discrete, and more continuous. They almost approximate a unimodal distribution individually.

Still, genetically, if you randomly selected ten indigenous people of ten different areas far from each other, they would be more similar than most random selections of two wild chimps living 50 km apart.

Funny you say that. There's been a recent movement in pseudo-anthropology from white and black supremacists claiming that they are the "true" indigenous Americans, and that the so-called Natives are Mongolian invaders. Despite these baseless claims proven false by genetic testing on corpses myriads of years old, both sides still insist and are growing in numbers exponentially.

[LiberNovusAmericae]

There are certain genetic traits amongst people of certain races. Whites tend to have more oil in their hair than blacks for example, and that ain't caused by social constructs. Skin pigmentation isn't caused by social constructs either. Regardless, it's not enough for humans to be categorized into different breeds or anything like that, so while differences between ethnic groups and "races" are much more minor than racists like to admit, they do exist to an extent.

[Kombinita Socialisma Demokratio]

The physical and hereditary traits which often (but not always) occur together are genetic, but how exactly the lines are drawn to make them into races is totally social and/or pseudoscience. The traits are not very discrete, and more continuous. They almost approximate a unimodal distribution individually.

Still, genetically, if you randomly selected ten indigenous people of ten different areas far from each other, they would be more similar than most random selections of two wild chimps living 50 km apart.

Funny you say that. There's been a recent movement in pseudo-anthropology from white and black supremacists claiming that they are the "true" indigenous Americans, and that the so-called Natives are Mongolian invaders. Despite these baseless claims proven false by genetic testing on corpses myriads of years old, both sides still insist and are growing in numbers exponentially.

My 6-9 grade History/Bible/Health teacher believed/taught that indigenous Americans were of the second race (first was white and third black), which included Asians, Middle Easterners, Iberians, Pacific islanders, and Indigenous Americans. Funny how the "slightly punished (for first ancestor who became that race)" race travelled the most and had various language families. It is also strange how he stated that language families were broken up after race (and the people moved apart) because all people worked together, yet the different races did not work together other than as slaves (as punishment for an ancestor).

Yep, he was/is a bit odd, and still teaches.

[Purple Rats]

The Roma aren't European in terms of origin, they're really from northern India

So are Europeans.

What tha hell is "European" suppose to be anyway? As I see it "European" is just someone who lives or is from Europe, but whole Europe is not one ethnic group to put your finger on "this is european".

"Europeans" all came from different areas.

[Kombinita Socialisma Demokratio]

The Roma aren't European in terms of origin, they're really from northern India

So are Europeans.

Does European as you use it mean only people who live there and only have ancestors who lived there for {insert arbitrary number} generations?
Or does it mean people who only or mostly have ancestors who lived there {insert arbitrary number} generations ago?

[Togeria]

So are Europeans.

What tha hell is "European" suppose to be anyway? As I see it "European" is just someone who lives or is from Europe, but whole Europe is not one ethnic group to put your finger on "this is european".

"Europeans" all came from different areas.

That's really the trouble with continents as social and societal markers, people might be in the same area in the same region but still be worlds apart from one another

[Cisairse]

So are Europeans.

What tha hell is "European" suppose to be anyway? As I see it "European" is just someone who lives or is from Europe, but whole Europe is not one ethnic group to put your finger on "this is european".

"Europeans" all came from different areas.

Considering race is a social construct, I'm willing to define European as people who speak the languages in this picture:



Discuss.

[Bear Stearns]

What tha hell is "European" suppose to be anyway? As I see it "European" is just someone who lives or is from Europe, but whole Europe is not one ethnic group to put your finger on "this is european".

"Europeans" all came from different areas.

Considering race is a social construct, I'm willing to define European as people who speak the languages in this picture:



Discuss.

That would be Indo-European. "European" would just be those in Europe + Finns/Hungarians and any remaining pre-Indo-Aryan people still Europe (Basques).

[Shokpos]

It wasn't that recent, racism became a thing in the west around 300 b.c, when Greeks first wrote anti-Semitic texts. And in the east not much after the Trung Rebellion

That wasn't based on "race" or close to modern day racism, that was religious and national discrimination.

We've already been over this, keep up.

The same case can be made for your example. Conquistadors didn’t take Mexica people as slaves because they were a different color, but mostly because they thought they were inferior on two grounds. 1) They weren't Christian 2) I conquered this empire, it’s stuff is mine. Another point is slavery was just part of the economy, and was on racial grounds long before the Spanish, the Arabic slave trade was on racial grounds as early as the 640’s. Your example is hypocritical at worst and nitpicking at best.

[Purple Rats]

What tha hell is "European" suppose to be anyway? As I see it "European" is just someone who lives or is from Europe, but whole Europe is not one ethnic group to put your finger on "this is european".

"Europeans" all came from different areas.

Considering race is a social construct, I'm willing to define European as people who speak the languages in this picture:



Discuss.

you mean languages in other color than gray?

[Ayytaly]

Funny you say that. There's been a recent movement in pseudo-anthropology from white and black supremacists claiming that they are the "true" indigenous Americans, and that the so-called Natives are Mongolian invaders. Despite these baseless claims proven false by genetic testing on corpses myriads of years old, both sides still insist and are growing in numbers exponentially.

My 6-9 grade History/Bible/Health teacher believed/taught that indigenous Americans were of the second race (first was white and third black), which included Asians, Middle Easterners, Iberians, Pacific islanders, and Indigenous Americans. Funny how the "slightly punished (for first ancestor who became that race)" race travelled the most and had various language families. It is also strange how he stated that language families were broken up after race (and the people moved apart) because all people worked together, yet the different races did not work together other than as slaves (as punishment for an ancestor).

Yep, he was/is a bit odd, and still teaches.

Is he a Mormon? Or an adherent of British Israelism?

[Cisairse]

Considering race is a social construct, I'm willing to define European as people who speak the languages in this picture:



Discuss.

you mean languages in other color than gray?

Yes. My apologies for not specifying.

[Bombadil]

All I know is that people with green eyes are basically superior, beyond that I'm not really bothered.

You did not state superior to whom. I therefore assume that I, as someone with green eyes, have superior eyesight to someone with no eyes.

Superior to all is implied. Yet seriously, we delineate by skin colour because it's the most obvious visual signal for us, the easiest to distinguish, yet it's as arbitrary as eye colour, height, length of pinkie finger..

[Purple Rats]

Okay, Cisairse, then why are finnish, estonian and hungarian not europeans for you?

[UniversalCommons]

Science is socially constructed just like everything else. Race is definitely constructed a social construct within science.
https://www.livescience.com/53613-race- ... tific.html
Race is a crude poorly constructed way to describe genetic heritage.

[Bombadil]

Okay, Cisairse, then why are finnish, estonian and hungarian not europeans for you?

Indeed, and why is Britain there, pretty sure it voted out of Europe the other year.

[Heloin]

There are certain genetic traits amongst people of certain races. Whites tend to have more oil in their hair than blacks for example, and that ain't caused by social constructs. Skin pigmentation isn't caused by social constructs either. Regardless, it's not enough for humans to be categorized into different breeds or anything like that, so while differences between ethnic groups and "races" are much more minor than racists like to admit, they do exist to an extent.

Humans don't differ enough genetically to classify as having different races in a biological sense. Race when considering humans is entirely a social thing based mostly on cosmetic differences.

[Bear Stearns]

Okay, Cisairse, then why are finnish, estonian and hungarian not europeans for you?

Indeed, and why is Britain there, pretty sure it voted out of Europe the other year.

Europe =/= European Union

[Bombadil]

Indeed, and why is Britain there, pretty sure it voted out of Europe the other year.

Europe =/= European Union

Thanks Dr. Literal.

[Purple Rats]

Indeed, and why is Britain there, pretty sure it voted out of Europe the other year.

Europe =/= European Union

But Finland, Hungary and Estonia?

[Bear Stearns]

Europe =/= European Union

But Finland, Hungary and Estonia?

I don't know, I don't use language families as a proxy for race. Black Americans speak English, but you wouldn't call them Germanic, would you?