Race: Social Construct or Science?

[Ayytaly]

The problem with "experts" is they are hyper-aware that their positions will be judged by media, peers, and activists, and it's very politically correct to say race has no biological basis. This is obviously false, because racial differences are entirely biological. They aren't anywhere near as significant as differences in species or genera, but they do exist and are biological. Because of human migration patterns, there has been significantly less isolation between groups in recent centuries and decades. That said, the overall genetic makeups of China, Japan, Korea, Mongolia, and India have changed very little during that time. If political correctness were put aside, it would be acknowledged that race is a biological concept while society's use of it and understanding of it is mostly a social construct.

"Experts" are so corrupted by peer pressure and their desire for grant money that many will even shill the nonsense that sex is so flexible that men can become women and vice versa. This is solely because of pressure from transgender activists and media activists (uh, journalists). We're supposed to pretend that humans are distinct from all other species, a sort of Neo-creationism. What we can acknowledge about the animal world we dare not address when it comes to humans.

Indeed. Various fields of science seem coerced to preach whatever crowd is willing to shell out money.

[Pyrghium]

Why is that only a “European thing”? Ever heard of Genghis Khan, or the Turks? At least the Europeans built things, but not the Barbarian Hordes of the Central Asian Steppes.

...I would recommend reading Genghis Khan and the Making of the Modern World, because your idea that the mongols built nothing is pop history at its finest.

Really? What did the Mongols build, exactly? What did they not take from other peoples by conquering and slaughtering their way across Eurasia?

[Heloin]

In Ancient Egypt there were images friezes of the Pharaoh subjugating the Nubians, the People of the Levant, and the People of Asia as an empire. These were not symbols of race but of dominion or rulership as an imperial power. Empires have always attempted to take over other kingdoms and assert their power over other peoples. The Assyrians and Babylonians did this as well. They would proclaim that they conquered other lands even if they hadn't and made them subjects of the great king or pharaoh. The Romans did this as well. They focused on location in the sense of Roman and not Roman, Egyptian and not Egyptian.

Race takes this kind of thinking and forces domination at a much deeper level. It makes the domination universal and moves it out of the realm of rulership to create a language of domination and control. Because there is a change in the style of governance, the entire people dominates the other people they conquer, not just the ruler conquering the ruled.

Interesting that Heloin doesn't mention this at all.

I did.

Imperialism and colonialism will attempt to supplement, assimilate, coerce, or annihilate whichever culture being conquered.

[Kowani]

...I would recommend reading Genghis Khan and the Making of the Modern World, because your idea that the mongols built nothing is pop history at its finest.

Really? What did the Mongols build, exactly? What did they not take from other peoples by conquering and slaughtering their way across Eurasia?

A Universal code of Law, for one thing.
Also, a writing system in China.

Then you have the ability of the Mongols to bring together artisans, scholars, doctors, and interconnecting peoples as they brought about the Pax Mongolica.

[Pyrghium]

Really? What did the Mongols build, exactly? What did they not take from other peoples by conquering and slaughtering their way across Eurasia?

A Universal code of Law, for one thing.
Also, a writing system in China.

Then you have the ability of the Mongols to bring together artisans, scholars, doctors, and interconnecting peoples as they brought about the Pax Mongolica.

Yeah, because none of these things existed way before the Mongols ever came on the scene. It’s not like the Silk Road had existed for some 1,000 years prior, and that the Chinese Imperial Dynasties, Persia, the Greeks, Romans, etc, hadn’t done similar things.

[Kowani]

A Universal code of Law, for one thing.
Also, a writing system in China.

Then you have the ability of the Mongols to bring together artisans, scholars, doctors, and interconnecting peoples as they brought about the Pax Mongolica.

Yeah, because none of these things existed way before the Mongols ever came on the scene. It’s not like the Silk Road had existed for some 1,000 years prior, and that the Chinese Imperial Dynasties, Persia, the Greeks, Romans, etc, hadn’t done similar things.

...Yes, and because medieval towns had walls the Great Wall of China is diminished. It's not like the Mongols did it on an unprecedented scale or anything...

Besides, the Silk Road changed very heavily between The Old Roman/China one to the Mongol. It's how Ibn Battuta managed to get from Mali to China, where even before, that was almost guaranteed to be impossible.

[Heloin]

Quite European of him.

Why is that only a “European thing”? Ever heard of Genghis Khan, or the Turks? At least the Europeans built things, but not the Barbarian Hordes of the Central Asian Steppes.

That's a deeply flawed understanding of history you got right there.

[Subterrania]

The problem with "experts" is they are hyper-aware that their positions will be judged by media, peers, and activists, and it's very politically correct to say race has no biological basis. This is obviously false, because racial differences are entirely biological. They aren't anywhere near as significant as differences in species or genera, but they do exist and are biological. Because of human migration patterns, there has been significantly less isolation between groups in recent centuries and decades. That said, the overall genetic makeup of China, Japan, Korea, Mongolia, and India have changed very little during that time. If political correctness were put aside, it would be acknowledged that race is a biological concept while society's use of it and understanding of it is mostly a social construct.

"Experts" are so corrupted by peer pressure and desire for grant money that many will even shill the nonsense that sex is so flexible that men can become women and vice versa. This is solely because of pressure from transgender activists and media activists (uh, journalists). We're supposed to pretend that humans are distinct from all other species, a sort of Neo-creationism. What we can acknowledge about the animal world we dare not address when it comes to humans.

[Kowani]

The problem with "experts" is they are hyper-aware that their positions will be judged by media, peers, and activists, and it's very politically correct to say race has no biological basis. This is obviously false, because racial differences are entirely biological. They aren't anywhere near as significant as differences in species or genera, but they do exist and are biological.

An assertion with no evidence. In fact, lets play. Define race.

Because of human migration patterns, there has been significantly less isolation between groups in recent centuries and decades. That said, the overall genetic makeup of China, Japan, Korea, Mongolia, and India have changed very little during that time.

Ahistorical nonsense.

If political correctness were put aside, it would be acknowledged that race is a biological concept while society's use of it and understanding of it is mostly a social construct.

Even more incorrect somehow.

"Experts" are so corrupted by peer pressure and desire for grant money that many will even shill the nonsense that sex is so flexible that men can become women and vice versa.

Conflating sex and gender, I see.

solely because of pressure from transgender activists and media activists (uh, journalists).

This would be a great point if it was based in reality.

We're supposed to pretend that humans are distinct from all other species, a sort of Neo-creationism. What we can acknowledge about the animal world we dare not address when it comes to humans.

Clownfish can change their sex, you wanna try again?

[Pyrghium]

Yeah, because none of these things existed way before the Mongols ever came on the scene. It’s not like the Silk Road had existed for some 1,000 years prior, and that the Chinese Imperial Dynasties, Persia, the Greeks, Romans, etc, hadn’t done similar things.

...Yes, and because medieval towns had walls the Great Wall of China is diminished. It's not like the Mongols did it on an unprecedented scale or anything...

Yes, their main feat was conquering almost all of Asia and acquiring the biggest Land Empire in World History, and while that’s quite the achievement, it’s not like the Mongols actually built a Civilization. They just conquered on a bigger scale.

[Panslav]

There are phenotypical differences between different "races". However, neither race is better, it's that their phenotypes are better adapted to the enviroment they live/d in. (Though, might I notice they have been shuffled around later due to various reason, and there has not been enough time for them to readapt).

The most notable change is skin colour, which regulates UV light absorbed (aka chance of cancer) and vitamin D production. Due to advances in medicine they matter less, though risk of skin cancer is still much higher for lighter-coloured people. Otherwise, there is no meaningful difference, and lack of reproductive isolation proves that we are the same species.

I reinstate, the differences between races either are non-existant or are meaningless.

[Rojava Free State]

And so he could seize the land to give to his cronies. He used racial hatred and violence to advance it but lining his pockets and the pockets of his cronies was always part of the goal.

Quite European of him.

As if only Europeans commit acts of unspeakable evil. Do you know how many people were genocided by Japan during world war II?

[Rojava Free State]

The problem with "experts" is they are hyper-aware that their positions will be judged by media, peers, and activists, and it's very politically correct to say race has no biological basis. This is obviously false, because racial differences are entirely biological. They aren't anywhere near as significant as differences in species or genera, but they do exist and are biological. Because of human migration patterns, there has been significantly less isolation between groups in recent centuries and decades. That said, the overall genetic makeup of China, Japan, Korea, Mongolia, and India have changed very little during that time. If political correctness were put aside, it would be acknowledged that race is a biological concept while society's use of it and understanding of it is mostly a social construct.

"Experts" are so corrupted by peer pressure and desire for grant money that many will even shill the nonsense that sex is so flexible that men can become women and vice versa. This is solely because of pressure from transgender activists and media activists (uh, journalists). We're supposed to pretend that humans are distinct from all other species, a sort of Neo-creationism. What we can acknowledge about the animal world we dare not address when it comes to humans.

Race is so real that ethnic groups have changed race over the course of time. Italians were brown in 1900 but somehow are white today, and finns were asiatic but are now white as well. And don't even get me started on Jews. Their race differs based on the opinion of each individual. But "race is real."

[LiberNovusAmericae]

https://time.com/91081/what-science-say ... -genetics/

I think this is a good article. Race does exist, but the differences aren't enough to justify racism.

[Rojava Free State]

https://time.com/91081/what-science-says-about-race-and-genetics/

I think this is a good article. Race does exist, but the differences aren't enough to justify racism.

Genetic clusters exist. The ways we define race don't though.

If you think our neatly defined races are real, consider for a second how we're still debating whether Shakira is white or not. Clearly if race was real in the sense we think it is, there wouldn't be such a debate. White people are a social construct. Outside of America in many parts of the world, nobody wakes up and says "I'm white." Whiteness as a social construct was not there to stop the troubles in Northern Ireland, nor did it prevent Ukraine and Russia from duking it out. And don't even get me started on Asia. Everyone there thinks they're a separate race from the people in neighboring countries.

[Insaanistan]

Quite European of him.

As if only Europeans commit acts of unspeakable evil. Do you know how many people were genocided by Japan during world war II?

I am well aware of the Rape I Nanking and Japan’s other atrocities. However, in the words of Malcolm X (El-Hajj Malik El-Shabazz) “Every [the white man]’s gone, he’s created havoc.” Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think all white people are devils, but the Japanese did that at one point in history: Europeans have done that virtually everywhere for centuries.

[Rojava Free State]

As if only Europeans commit acts of unspeakable evil. Do you know how many people were genocided by Japan during world war II?

I am well aware of the Rape I Nanking and Japan’s other atrocities. However, in the words of Malcolm X (El-Hajj Malik El-Shabazz) “Every [the white man]’s gone, he’s created havoc.” Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think all white people are devils, but the Japanese did that at one point in history: Europeans have done that virtually everywhere for centuries.

The Japanese have done that more times than just world war II, and that's just Japan. Have you seen what has happened in China since time immemorial? Mass murder and civil war are like a Chinese past time. Let's not pretend that white people have a monopoly on violence. White people are only remembered for that because #1 they had the weapons necessary to kill more people and #2 they went to other places on earth and didn't stay where they were like the Chinese. I'm sure you've seen the wars and violence that have plagued Africa for decades now. The reason this only happened recently is because it was only recently that many African countries seized the means of death's construction. Zulu Warriors with arrows cannot do as much damage as soldiers with AK-47s, guerillas with car bombs or jihadists with suicide vests can do. Clearly the predisposition for violence that is found throughout mankind was already there, and all they needed were the weapons to cause mass death.

We are all one bad day away from being Albanian. Never forget that. There is no "bad race." There are only circumstances and when the circumstances are right, anyone will stoop so low.

[Insaanistan]

I am well aware of the Rape I Nanking and Japan’s other atrocities. However, in the words of Malcolm X (El-Hajj Malik El-Shabazz) “Every [the white man]’s gone, he’s created havoc.” Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think all white people are devils, but the Japanese did that at one point in history: Europeans have done that virtually everywhere for centuries.

The Japanese have done that more times than just world war II, and that's just Japan. Have you seen what has happened in China since time immemorial? Mass murder and civil war are like a Chinese past time. Let's not pretend that white people have a monopoly on violence. White people are only remembered for that because #1 they had the weapons necessary to kill more people and #2 they went to other places on earth and didn't stay where they were like the Chinese. I'm sure you've seen the wars and violence that have plagued Africa for decades now. The reason this only happened recently is because it was only recently that many African countries seized the means of death's construction. Zulu Warriors with arrows cannot do as much damage as soldiers with AK-47s, guerillas with car bombs or jihadists with suicide vests can do. Clearly the predisposition for violence that is found throughout mankind was already there, and all they needed were the weapons to cause mass death.

We are all one bad day away from being Albanian. Never forget that. There is no "bad race." There are only circumstances and when the circumstances are right, anyone will stoop so low.

I never called them a bad race. Even Malik El-Shabazz, when he went on Hajj and saw White Muslims from the Balkans, Arab Muslims from MENA, and Black Muslims from Africa all eating, praying, and walking together, it changed husband perception of the world and Islam. When you look at Africa and Asia, 60% of our problems are because of Europe, how they drew borders with no regard to the people, how they would govern different tribes like different countries, only to stuff us in the same one. How they’d give on tribe guns and the other tribe is planning to attack, then do the same thing with other tribe, and watch us fight it out. However, I know the 40% is us. The rampant corruption. Our culture inferiority complex. Our belief our tribe, or religion, or way of life, or language, is better than someone else’s. We are responsible for some, but remember, Europe still has a choke-hold on us to this day, in several ways.

[Novus America]

As if only Europeans commit acts of unspeakable evil. Do you know how many people were genocided by Japan during world war II?

I am well aware of the Rape I Nanking and Japan’s other atrocities. However, in the words of Malcolm X (El-Hajj Malik El-Shabazz) “Every [the white man]’s gone, he’s created havoc.” Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think all white people are devils, but the Japanese did that at one point in history: Europeans have done that virtually everywhere for centuries.

Everywhere humans have gone there has been havoc. It is not unique to Europeans. Just because they were most recently the dominant ones does not mean they are worse in nature. They just got better technology first. Besides it is not as if the places they got involved were peaceful and mice before they did so while the Europeans colonial powers did some very nasty stuff, that is not the sole cause of problems. Spain did some very bad stuff in Mexico but before they got there there was still plenty of violence and imperialism. Many sided with Spain because the found Spanish control better than Aztec control.

Besides that is changing now. Now the PRC is the growing power causing havoc in Africa.
Not any better though.

[Qyrym]

There are 3 main races - yellow (mongolic), white (caucasian) and black (african).
Of course there are borderline regions, and the US is actually in many ways borderline, but major population chunks do live in other part of the world.
Those who say "reject race, we all are already one" are expanding their US experience on the whole world. It's worthless and pathetic.
In our part of the world (i'm actually from Russia), Eurasia\Eurafrica, there exists Sahara as a natural limit between negros and indoeuropeans\semitics, and also Himalayas and Pamir and Altay as the border between asians and europeans.
The enclave asian communities in Europe, such as Kalmykia, are from recent times (1700s), when travel became more cheap.
The turanic subrace (kazakhs, kyrgyzes) is the result of many ethnic shifts. Also, no natural border in Russia, Urals is too low. Nevertheless, Urals effectively barred russians from expansion in a traditional "mongoloid\turanoid" region, until 1600s when travel became more cheap and effective. So Siberian european population also can be attributed to recent times and can be called a big and dense "panhandle" between paleoasiatic Yamal, Taymır, Yakutya and turanic Kazakhstan, Mongolia and Asian China/Korea.
Tl\dr:
more than 1.500.000.000 people of asian race never seen or interbreeded with an european or an african.
more than 700.000.000 people of white race (including semitics or east-indians) never seen or interbreeded with an asian or an african.
more than 800.000.000 people of black race have never seen or interbreeded with two previous.
To be honest, the "white race" is also too big to not consider South branch (Semitics, caucasoids, mediterraneans such as Albanians or Bulgarians, and also Iranians and India\Paki people) as a separate entity, albeit, it can be called subrace just like turanoid. The border can be drawn in Alpes, Carpathians, Caucasus and south Central Asian deserts - all areas with small density.
It's just geography and history.

That's how asian race traits, such as "blue dot" just above the anal hole, shovel-shaped incisors, black straight oily hair and epicanthus are propagated in complex in an overwhelming majority of asian people, while corresponding white race traits are propagated usually in complex in an overwhelming majority of european people.
And some asian traits are, to add, 'dominant' unlike 'recessive' european ones. And some african traits are even dominant on asian ones (and vice versa). That's why white pair sometimes has a black child. It's called genetics.
Honestly, it's disappointing to hear here such a discussion about a genetical fact:
isolated (blurry, but still 80%+ homogenous) blobs of human beings with a sheer size and with a drastic contrast in traits somehow do exist even in our time of unprecedented societal mobility.
Races do exist and they do not need to be 'approved' by any chairborne theoretist.

[Prozitia]

Race is very obviously a spook.

Ah yes, an individual of culture.

[Aureumterra]

There are 3 main races - yellow (mongolic), white (caucasian) and black (african).
Of course there are borderline regions, and the US is actually in many ways borderline, but major population chunks do live in other part of the world.
Those who say "reject race, we all are already one" are expanding their US experience on the whole world. It's worthless and pathetic.
In our part of the world (i'm actually from Russia), Eurasia\Eurafrica, there exists Sahara as a natural limit between negros and indoeuropeans\semitics, and also Himalayas and Pamir and Altay as the border between asians and europeans.
The enclave asian communities in Europe, such as Kalmykia, are from recent times (1700s), when travel became more cheap.
The turanic subrace (kazakhs, kyrgyzes) is the result of many ethnic shifts. Also, no natural border in Russia, Urals is too low. Nevertheless, Urals effectively barred russians from expansion in a traditional "mongoloid\turanoid" region, until 1600s when travel became more cheap and effective. So Siberian european population also can be attributed to recent times and can be called a big and dense "panhandle" between paleoasiatic Yamal, Taymır, Yakutya and turanic Kazakhstan, Mongolia and Asian China/Korea.
Tl\dr:
more than 1.500.000 people of asian race never seen or interbreeded with an european or an african.
more than 700.000 people of white race (including semitics or east-indians) never seen or interbreeded with an asian or an african.
more than 800.000 people of black race have never seen or interbreeded with two previous.
To be honest, the "white race" is also too big to not consider South branch (Semitics, caucasoids, mediterraneans such as Albanians or Bulgarians, and also Iranians and India\Paki people) as a separate entity, albeit, it can be called subrace just like turanoid. The border can be drawn in Alpes, Carpathians, Caucasus and south Central Asian deserts - all areas with small density.
It's just geography and history.

That's how asian race traits, such as "blue dot" just above the anal hole, shovel-shaped incisors, black straight oily hair and epicanthus are propagated in complex in an overwhelming majority of asian people, while corresponding white race traits are propagated usually in complex in an overwhelming majority of european people.
And some asian traits are, to add, 'dominant' unlike 'recessive' european ones. And some african traits are even dominant on asian ones (and vice versa). That's why white pair sometimes has a black child. It's called genetics.
Honestly, it's disappointing to hear here such a discussion about a genetical fact:
isolated (blurry, but still 80%+ homogenous) blobs of human beings with a sheer size and with a drastic contrast in traits somehow do exist even in our time of unprecedented societal mobility.
Races do exist and they do not need to be 'approved' by any chairborne theoretist.

[Qyrym]

There are 3 main races - yellow (mongolic), white (caucasian) and black (african).
Of course there are borderline regions, and the US is actually in many ways borderline, but major population chunks do live in other part of the world.
Those who say "reject race, we all are already one" are expanding their US experience on the whole world. It's worthless and pathetic.
In our part of the world (i'm actually from Russia), Eurasia\Eurafrica, there exists Sahara as a natural limit between negros and indoeuropeans\semitics, and also Himalayas and Pamir and Altay as the border between asians and europeans.
The enclave asian communities in Europe, such as Kalmykia, are from recent times (1700s), when travel became more cheap.
The turanic subrace (kazakhs, kyrgyzes) is the result of many ethnic shifts. Also, no natural border in Russia, Urals is too low. Nevertheless, Urals effectively barred russians from expansion in a traditional "mongoloid\turanoid" region, until 1600s when travel became more cheap and effective. So Siberian european population also can be attributed to recent times and can be called a big and dense "panhandle" between paleoasiatic Yamal, Taymır, Yakutya and turanic Kazakhstan, Mongolia and Asian China/Korea.
Tl\dr:
more than 1.500.000 people of asian race never seen or interbreeded with an european or an african.
more than 700.000 people of white race (including semitics or east-indians) never seen or interbreeded with an asian or an african.
more than 800.000 people of black race have never seen or interbreeded with two previous.
To be honest, the "white race" is also too big to not consider South branch (Semitics, caucasoids, mediterraneans such as Albanians or Bulgarians, and also Iranians and India\Paki people) as a separate entity, albeit, it can be called subrace just like turanoid. The border can be drawn in Alpes, Carpathians, Caucasus and south Central Asian deserts - all areas with small density.
It's just geography and history.

That's how asian race traits, such as "blue dot" just above the anal hole, shovel-shaped incisors, black straight oily hair and epicanthus are propagated in complex in an overwhelming majority of asian people, while corresponding white race traits are propagated usually in complex in an overwhelming majority of european people.
And some asian traits are, to add, 'dominant' unlike 'recessive' european ones. And some african traits are even dominant on asian ones (and vice versa). That's why white pair sometimes has a black child. It's called genetics.
Honestly, it's disappointing to hear here such a discussion about a genetical fact:
isolated (blurry, but still 80%+ homogenous) blobs of human beings with a sheer size and with a drastic contrast in traits somehow do exist even in our time of unprecedented societal mobility.
Races do exist and they do not need to be 'approved' by any chairborne theoretist.

I beg my pardon, i forgot some zeroes in digits.

[Aureumterra]

I am well aware of the Rape I Nanking and Japan’s other atrocities. However, in the words of Malcolm X (El-Hajj Malik El-Shabazz) “Every [the white man]’s gone, he’s created havoc.” Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think all white people are devils, but the Japanese did that at one point in history: Europeans have done that virtually everywhere for centuries.

The Japanese have done that more times than just world war II, and that's just Japan. Have you seen what has happened in China since time immemorial? Mass murder and civil war are like a Chinese past time. Let's not pretend that white people have a monopoly on violence. White people are only remembered for that because #1 they had the weapons necessary to kill more people and #2 they went to other places on earth and didn't stay where they were like the Chinese. I'm sure you've seen the wars and violence that have plagued Africa for decades now. The reason this only happened recently is because it was only recently that many African countries seized the means of death's construction. Zulu Warriors with arrows cannot do as much damage as soldiers with AK-47s, guerillas with car bombs or jihadists with suicide vests can do. Clearly the predisposition for violence that is found throughout mankind was already there, and all they needed were the weapons to cause mass death.

Zulu warriors mostly have guns nowadays

[Insaanistan]

One thing to consider is the disparity within ethnic family groups. For example, Arabs are Afro-Asiatic people of the Semitic branch, and go from African to Greco-Italian features. Hausa are also Afro-Asiatic, but are Chadic (Berbers are our closest relatives). Our features range from looking like the Nilo-Saharan and Bantu tribes to looking like Tuaregs to looking half-Arab. Russians are Indo-European and Slavs. They have blonde hair and blues to dark hair and brown eyes to redheads. All people groups (Arabs, Hausa and Russians) are Caucasians. Hausa people often look more like the Christian tribes of Ghana and Burkina Faso and Togo, but we are over 99% Muslim, smoke hookah, often wear turbans and abaya, and are of Haplogroups found in Eurasia. However, we are still black, because of our geographic and historic location, though my parents sometimes refer to us as “brown people”.