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Global ramifications of the Corona Crisis

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Mandicoria
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Postby Mandicoria » Tue Mar 24, 2020 3:41 pm

I mean best case scenario without radical government change would be adoption of policies like universal healthcare in the US (and similar countries without it), and care for civilians. Along with the removal of tons of corrupt elements in many governments local and national. Also it'd hopefully lead to a more global effort to helping reform medicine to better combat possible epidemics/pandemics in the future. Along with more protections for working classes and those unable to isolate.

Being very hopeful, but I'm really not holding my breath on any government learning a single thing on how to better things after this whole disaster ends.
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The East Marches II
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Postby The East Marches II » Tue Mar 24, 2020 3:46 pm

Ethel mermania wrote:
The East Marches II wrote:
I wish I believed you. Every indicator I am seeing says we are deep trouble. There will be no easy escape from this. The Great Depression will probably look easy.

I disagree, business fundamentals with the exception of the fed rate looked good. For this the fed rate doesnt matter anyway, you cant push on a string. As long as the government can keep liquidity in the markets, nothing like the great depression will happen. If credit drys up, yes, but if it doesnt I dont see a depression happening.


Liquidity can not solve the supply shortage, forced closures nor the taxing capacity on the medical industry. The collapse in the velocity of money does not bode well at all. As I said I hope I am wrong. We can not simply bring back to life the businesses close permanently by this.

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UniversalCommons
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Postby UniversalCommons » Tue Mar 24, 2020 3:46 pm

The fundamental difference is that Covid 19 is not caused by economic warfare. It has damaged everyones economy. So a lot of this will be jumpstarting everything.

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Kowani
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Postby Kowani » Tue Mar 24, 2020 3:48 pm

Welcome to the Collapse of 2020.
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Diarcesia
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Postby Diarcesia » Tue Mar 24, 2020 3:53 pm

Kowani wrote:Welcome to the Collapse of 2020.

Or more accurately, the biggest ramification of this year is that people will say that "hindsight is 2020"

It's apt, when you think about it.
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Rojava Free State
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Postby Rojava Free State » Tue Mar 24, 2020 4:02 pm

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pro: marijuana, gun rights, private property

anti: fascism, communism, islamism, sexism, pan africanism, La raza, Warren Police Department (and most of the other police departments of metro Detroit except for Auburn Hills. They're aight), gun control, trump, obama, bush, clinton, reagan, carter, chipotle and snotty in crowd teens. Ugh I can't deal with them
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Galloism
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Postby Galloism » Tue Mar 24, 2020 4:02 pm

Diarcesia wrote:
Kowani wrote:Welcome to the Collapse of 2020.

Or more accurately, the biggest ramification of this year is that people will say that "hindsight is 2020"

It's apt, when you think about it.

Huh.
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Ethel mermania
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Postby Ethel mermania » Tue Mar 24, 2020 4:03 pm

The East Marches II wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:I disagree, business fundamentals with the exception of the fed rate looked good. For this the fed rate doesnt matter anyway, you cant push on a string. As long as the government can keep liquidity in the markets, nothing like the great depression will happen. If credit drys up, yes, but if it doesnt I dont see a depression happening.


Liquidity can not solve the supply shortage, forced closures nor the taxing capacity on the medical industry. The collapse in the velocity of money does not bode well at all. As I said I hope I am wrong. We can not simply bring back to life the businesses close permanently by this.

Yes if very much can. Ensuring liquidity is the only way to guarantee corps have the money to pay its employees and its notes. That's the difference between now and then, now we have a very strong, and at its heart a very Keynesian central bank system.

You are right about the cash flow problem, so far other nations stimulus packages are addressing that, hopefully our eventually will as well.
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Vetalia
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Postby Vetalia » Tue Mar 24, 2020 4:03 pm

Nakena wrote:
Vetalia wrote:
How?


Most western nation can't even manufacture basic medical equipment as of now as all was outsourced to places like the PRC by davos men because "muh free markets, muh frees, muh globalization" and similar nonsense.


I don't think it's exactly rocket science to figure out how to make it, if we want to we can do so. Maybe we'll learn from this and slam China with the trade restrictions and sanctions they so desperately deserve.
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Rojava Free State
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Postby Rojava Free State » Tue Mar 24, 2020 4:04 pm

UniversalCommons wrote:The fundamental difference is that Covid 19 is not caused by economic warfare. It has damaged everyones economy. So a lot of this will be jumpstarting everything.


Covid 19 isn't intentional economic warfare. It's instead been exacerbated by certain people (China and Donald Trump) caring more about the economy than about facts or human lives.
political compass:

Economic Left/Right: -0.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.38
pro: marijuana, gun rights, private property

anti: fascism, communism, islamism, sexism, pan africanism, La raza, Warren Police Department (and most of the other police departments of metro Detroit except for Auburn Hills. They're aight), gun control, trump, obama, bush, clinton, reagan, carter, chipotle and snotty in crowd teens. Ugh I can't deal with them
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Rojava Free State
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Postby Rojava Free State » Tue Mar 24, 2020 4:05 pm

Vetalia wrote:
Nakena wrote:
Most western nation can't even manufacture basic medical equipment as of now as all was outsourced to places like the PRC by davos men because "muh free markets, muh frees, muh globalization" and similar nonsense.


I don't think it's exactly rocket science to figure out how to make it, if we want to we can do so. Maybe we'll learn from this and slam China with the trade restrictions and sanctions they so desperately deserve.


America can become a self sufficient economy. We have the resources and millions of people, so all we need now is the will and the brains.
political compass:

Economic Left/Right: -0.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.38
pro: marijuana, gun rights, private property

anti: fascism, communism, islamism, sexism, pan africanism, La raza, Warren Police Department (and most of the other police departments of metro Detroit except for Auburn Hills. They're aight), gun control, trump, obama, bush, clinton, reagan, carter, chipotle and snotty in crowd teens. Ugh I can't deal with them
Hurdergaryp wrote:Humanity keeps seeing itself as the crown of creation, but to this world we're a crown of thorns at best.

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Ethel mermania
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Postby Ethel mermania » Tue Mar 24, 2020 4:08 pm

Vetalia wrote:
Nakena wrote:
Most western nation can't even manufacture basic medical equipment as of now as all was outsourced to places like the PRC by davos men because "muh free markets, muh frees, muh globalization" and similar nonsense.


I don't think it's exactly rocket science to figure out how to make it, if we want to we can do so. Maybe we'll learn from this and slam China with the trade restrictions and sanctions they so desperately deserve.

A better way to hit china would be to shift production to india, the Philippines, and/or vietnam.
The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion … but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.

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Vetalia
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Postby Vetalia » Tue Mar 24, 2020 4:20 pm

Ethel mermania wrote:
Vetalia wrote:
I don't think it's exactly rocket science to figure out how to make it, if we want to we can do so. Maybe we'll learn from this and slam China with the trade restrictions and sanctions they so desperately deserve.

A better way to hit china would be to shift production to india, the Philippines, and/or vietnam.


Thankfully that's already happening but we need to accelerate it further. We also need to cut off their human capital by banning all PRC citizens from studying, researching or teaching at American universities.
Last edited by Vetalia on Tue Mar 24, 2020 4:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Kaystein
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Founded: Jan 12, 2019
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Postby Kaystein » Tue Mar 24, 2020 4:25 pm

If Trump hadn't fucked up by calling it the chinese virus I could have envisioned a more united humanity.
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Genivaria
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Postby Genivaria » Tue Mar 24, 2020 4:52 pm

Kaystein wrote:If Trump hadn't fucked up by calling it the chinese virus I could have envisioned a more united humanity.

You're naive if you think THAT of all things would prevent peace.
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Moscareinas
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Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Moscareinas » Tue Mar 24, 2020 5:38 pm

It better be different, and for the better. We cannot allow ourselves to become even more tribalistic, more fragmented, and more authoritarian in the face of future global problems. Neither global chaos nor stable clusters of tyranny can fend off the next pandemic or indeed anything that merits the close coordination of the entire world.
Moscareinas is an unexpectedly prosperous democratic republic whose territories include 54% of the western Indian Ocean, the IRL BIOT, Comoros, the Seychelles, Mauritius, and Reunion. Not included: Madagascar.

Moscans are torn about Madagascar.

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Stellar Colonies
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Postby Stellar Colonies » Tue Mar 24, 2020 5:41 pm

More transparency when dealing with new disease outbreaks would be nice as well.
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Rojava Free State
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Postby Rojava Free State » Tue Mar 24, 2020 5:43 pm

Kaystein wrote:If Trump hadn't fucked up by calling it the chinese virus I could have envisioned a more united humanity.


We dont need to unite with China. This is their fault, and they should be locked in a portable with no windows and a door that locks from the outside.
political compass:

Economic Left/Right: -0.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.38
pro: marijuana, gun rights, private property

anti: fascism, communism, islamism, sexism, pan africanism, La raza, Warren Police Department (and most of the other police departments of metro Detroit except for Auburn Hills. They're aight), gun control, trump, obama, bush, clinton, reagan, carter, chipotle and snotty in crowd teens. Ugh I can't deal with them
Hurdergaryp wrote:Humanity keeps seeing itself as the crown of creation, but to this world we're a crown of thorns at best.

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Rojava Free State
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Founded: Feb 06, 2018
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Postby Rojava Free State » Tue Mar 24, 2020 5:45 pm

Vetalia wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:A better way to hit china would be to shift production to india, the Philippines, and/or vietnam.


Thankfully that's already happening but we need to accelerate it further. We also need to cut off their human capital by banning all PRC citizens from studying, researching or teaching at American universities.


And before anyone screams that's racist, keep in mind that this rule wouldn't apply to people from Singapore or Taiwan, who are also Han Chinese. It only applies to communist Chinese. It would be a policy directed at a specific country.
Last edited by Rojava Free State on Tue Mar 24, 2020 5:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
political compass:

Economic Left/Right: -0.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.38
pro: marijuana, gun rights, private property

anti: fascism, communism, islamism, sexism, pan africanism, La raza, Warren Police Department (and most of the other police departments of metro Detroit except for Auburn Hills. They're aight), gun control, trump, obama, bush, clinton, reagan, carter, chipotle and snotty in crowd teens. Ugh I can't deal with them
Hurdergaryp wrote:Humanity keeps seeing itself as the crown of creation, but to this world we're a crown of thorns at best.

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Kaystein
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Founded: Jan 12, 2019
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Kaystein » Tue Mar 24, 2020 5:57 pm

Rojava Free State wrote:
Vetalia wrote:
Thankfully that's already happening but we need to accelerate it further. We also need to cut off their human capital by banning all PRC citizens from studying, researching or teaching at American universities.


And before anyone screams that's racist, keep in mind that this rule wouldn't apply to people from Singapore or Taiwan, who are also Han Chinese. It only applies to communist Chinese. It would be a policy directed at a specific country.


You're still enabling racists to attack ethnic-Chinese; you should stop. How this pandemic started is public information, and regurgitating said information here isn't necessary.
Last edited by Kaystein on Tue Mar 24, 2020 6:00 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Moscareinas
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Founded: Dec 09, 2015
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Moscareinas » Tue Mar 24, 2020 6:02 pm

Vetalia wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:A better way to hit china would be to shift production to india, the Philippines, and/or vietnam.


Thankfully that's already happening but we need to accelerate it further. We also need to cut off their human capital by banning all PRC citizens from studying, researching or teaching at American universities.


No, that's wrong. How the fuck do you expect the Chinese to fight off pandemics other than full-blown shutdown the next time a pandemic goes off within Chinese borders? Revolt?
Moscareinas is an unexpectedly prosperous democratic republic whose territories include 54% of the western Indian Ocean, the IRL BIOT, Comoros, the Seychelles, Mauritius, and Reunion. Not included: Madagascar.

Moscans are torn about Madagascar.

(Yes, I'm Dahon. Please.)

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LiberNovusAmericae
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Posts: 6600
Founded: Mar 10, 2018
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby LiberNovusAmericae » Tue Mar 24, 2020 6:02 pm

Nakena wrote:
Vetalia wrote:
How?


Most western nation can't even manufacture basic medical equipment as of now as all was outsourced to places like the PRC by davos men because "muh free markets, muh frees, muh globalization" and similar nonsense.

Pathetic but true.
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Rojava Free State
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Founded: Feb 06, 2018
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Postby Rojava Free State » Tue Mar 24, 2020 6:04 pm

Kaystein wrote:
Rojava Free State wrote:
And before anyone screams that's racist, keep in mind that this rule wouldn't apply to people from Singapore or Taiwan, who are also Han Chinese. It only applies to communist Chinese. It would be a policy directed at a specific country.


You're still enabling racists to attack ethnic-Chinese; you should stop. How this pandemic started is public information, and regurgitating said information here isn't necessary.


No I'm not enabling anyone. We can be against racist violence while also blaming the government that caused this.

While you and several others were upset about this being called the China virus, China accused our government of creating and spreading COVID as a biological weapon without evidence. I notice there was no one waging keyboard warfare over that damn dirty lie. It is necessary to keep reminding everyone that this is indeed of chinese origin, because #1 it places the blame on the guilty party and #2 offends a foreign dictatorship and unwitting useful idiots that prop them up by caping for them.
political compass:

Economic Left/Right: -0.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.38
pro: marijuana, gun rights, private property

anti: fascism, communism, islamism, sexism, pan africanism, La raza, Warren Police Department (and most of the other police departments of metro Detroit except for Auburn Hills. They're aight), gun control, trump, obama, bush, clinton, reagan, carter, chipotle and snotty in crowd teens. Ugh I can't deal with them
Hurdergaryp wrote:Humanity keeps seeing itself as the crown of creation, but to this world we're a crown of thorns at best.

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Rojava Free State
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 11417
Founded: Feb 06, 2018
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Rojava Free State » Tue Mar 24, 2020 6:05 pm

Moscareinas wrote:
Vetalia wrote:
Thankfully that's already happening but we need to accelerate it further. We also need to cut off their human capital by banning all PRC citizens from studying, researching or teaching at American universities.


No, that's wrong. How the fuck do you expect the Chinese to fight off pandemics other than full-blown shutdown the next time a pandemic goes off within Chinese borders? Revolt?


Maybe their government can start using the brains endowed to them by billions of years of evolution and can actually listen to the doctors instead of silencing them.
political compass:

Economic Left/Right: -0.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.38
pro: marijuana, gun rights, private property

anti: fascism, communism, islamism, sexism, pan africanism, La raza, Warren Police Department (and most of the other police departments of metro Detroit except for Auburn Hills. They're aight), gun control, trump, obama, bush, clinton, reagan, carter, chipotle and snotty in crowd teens. Ugh I can't deal with them
Hurdergaryp wrote:Humanity keeps seeing itself as the crown of creation, but to this world we're a crown of thorns at best.

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Moscareinas
Diplomat
 
Posts: 767
Founded: Dec 09, 2015
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Moscareinas » Tue Mar 24, 2020 6:08 pm

Rojava Free State wrote:
Moscareinas wrote:
No, that's wrong. How the fuck do you expect the Chinese to fight off pandemics other than full-blown shutdown the next time a pandemic goes off within Chinese borders? Revolt?


Maybe their government can start using the brains endowed to them by billions of years of evolution and can actually listen to the doctors instead of silencing them.


Millions of years. There were no fossil hominids in the Precambrian, yo.

That dig aside, you're missing my point -- provided the Chinese government does shit right after this abates, they'd need their own medical authorities to advise them on the best course to take to stave off disaster.
Moscareinas is an unexpectedly prosperous democratic republic whose territories include 54% of the western Indian Ocean, the IRL BIOT, Comoros, the Seychelles, Mauritius, and Reunion. Not included: Madagascar.

Moscans are torn about Madagascar.

(Yes, I'm Dahon. Please.)

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