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Global ramifications of the Corona Crisis

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Alvecia
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Founded: Aug 17, 2015
Democratic Socialists

Postby Alvecia » Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:27 am

Australian rePublic wrote:Do you think that this will kill the SJW/political correctness movement once and for all

Err....how?
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Nobel Hobos 2
Minister
 
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Founded: Dec 04, 2019
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Nobel Hobos 2 » Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:27 am

Australian rePublic wrote:
Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:
None of those is realistic. Taiwan and whose army?

I do expect there will be democracy in China some day, but it will be decades in the future. It may not even be possible in such a large-pop country (bearing in mind India where democracy is less than ideal) so they may have to devolve power to the provinces and form a federation. Though as the US shows us, that is less than ideal too.

Flawed democracy is better than the clusterfuck they have now


What they have now is bizarre combination of unregulated capitalism and Mao's police state. Only half of that is really odious to me, but I think we have to live with it as long as China doesn't invade its neighbours.

Now a disclaimer. I'm 55 years old, childless, and all the people I care about are as old or older. I actually don't care what happens to Australia thirty years from now, and I'm shameless about it. I don't worry about things that I won't be around to worry about.
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Nobel Hobos 2
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Founded: Dec 04, 2019
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Nobel Hobos 2 » Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:29 am

Alvecia wrote:
Australian rePublic wrote:Do you think that this will kill the SJW/political correctness movement once and for all

Err....how?


Once you've punched a disabled person in the face to get their toilet paper, you can't go online and pretend to be a saint.
Also, AiliAiliA
No footwear industry: citizens cannot afford new shoes.
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Albrenia
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Posts: 9870
Founded: Aug 18, 2017
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Albrenia » Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:30 am

Australian rePublic wrote:Do you think that this will kill the SJW/political correctness movement once and for all


I don't think so. People will still find ways to be needlessly offended during and after this.

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Australian rePublic
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Posts: 18706
Founded: Mar 18, 2013
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Australian rePublic » Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:32 am

Alvecia wrote:
Australian rePublic wrote:Do you think that this will kill the SJW/political correctness movement once and for all

Err....how?

For starters, the concept of cultural relativism will show its consequences. Secondly, people will start callimg out people who scream blind racism to anyone who tries to call China out for their bullshit, and thirdly, people have actual things to worry about, so they don't need to invent imagi ary ones
Disclaimer: In-Character posts are NOT a reflection of the real world Australian government, any government departments, or any Australian states or territories. I have no authority over real world government decisions. This nation does not reflect my views, as I am trying to unlock banners
As a centrist, I have been called both an extreme leftist and an extreme right-winger.
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Why stylised as "rePublic"
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Alvecia
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Posts: 19289
Founded: Aug 17, 2015
Democratic Socialists

Postby Alvecia » Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:34 am

Australian rePublic wrote:
Alvecia wrote:Err....how?

For starters, the concept of cultural relativism will show its consequences. Secondly, people will start callimg out people who scream blind racism to anyone who tries to call China out for their bullshit, and thirdly, people have actual things to worry about, so they don't need to invent imagi ary ones

I think you underestimate the persistence of fools
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That there is no exception to the rule "There is an exception to every rule" is the exception that proves the rule.
---
Give a man a fish, and he'll eat for a day. Teach a man to fish, and he'll stop asking you to catch his fish.
That's not happening
That shouldn't be happening
Why is that happening?
That's why it's happening?
How has this ever worked?

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Australian rePublic
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Founded: Mar 18, 2013
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Australian rePublic » Thu Mar 26, 2020 4:35 am

Alvecia wrote:
Australian rePublic wrote:For starters, the concept of cultural relativism will show its consequences. Secondly, people will start callimg out people who scream blind racism to anyone who tries to call China out for their bullshit, and thirdly, people have actual things to worry about, so they don't need to invent imagi ary ones

I think you underestimate the persistence of fools

Yea, but the movement was already dying. This will be the final nail in the coffin
Disclaimer: In-Character posts are NOT a reflection of the real world Australian government, any government departments, or any Australian states or territories. I have no authority over real world government decisions. This nation does not reflect my views, as I am trying to unlock banners
As a centrist, I have been called both an extreme leftist and an extreme right-winger.
From Sydney, NSW. From Greek ancestry. Orthodox Christian.
Why stylised as "rePublic"
17 Published Issues and 1 WA Resolution
Issue Ideas You Can Steal

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Thermodolia
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Founded: Oct 07, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Thermodolia » Thu Mar 26, 2020 5:10 am

Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:
Australian rePublic wrote:Interesting. The sooner Xi Jinping is gone, the better


Don't wish for that. You could get someone worse.

Or the people of China get democracy. Though it’s more likely that if Xi goes the entire apparatus is going down with him. So we are probably going to see warlord era 2.0
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Nobel Hobos 2
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Founded: Dec 04, 2019
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Nobel Hobos 2 » Thu Mar 26, 2020 5:32 am

Thermodolia wrote:
Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:
Don't wish for that. You could get someone worse.

Or the people of China get democracy. Though it’s more likely that if Xi goes the entire apparatus is going down with him. So we are probably going to see warlord era 2.0


On the list of possible alternatives to Xi, I think democracy is down the Very Unlikely end of the list. But if it makes you happy.
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Rojava Free State
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Posts: 11186
Founded: Feb 06, 2018
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Rojava Free State » Thu Mar 26, 2020 5:34 am

Alvecia wrote:
Australian rePublic wrote:Do you think that this will kill the SJW/political correctness movement once and for all

Err....how?


Because they fell victim to Chinese propoganda and began claiming that it's racist to point out the origin of this disease. They were so gullible that they ended up defending an autocracy.
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Rojava Free State
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Founded: Feb 06, 2018
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Rojava Free State » Thu Mar 26, 2020 5:35 am

Nobel Hobos 2 wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:Or the people of China get democracy. Though it’s more likely that if Xi goes the entire apparatus is going down with him. So we are probably going to see warlord era 2.0


On the list of possible alternatives to Xi, I think democracy is down the Very Unlikely end of the list. But if it makes you happy.


Yeah China doesn't really have much of a history of democracy. Statism and tyranny is kinda the default system of governance there, going back thousands of years.
political compass:

Economic Left/Right: -0.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.38
pro: marijuana, gun rights, private property

anti: fascism, communism, islamism, sexism, pan africanism, La raza, Warren Police Department (and most of the other police departments of metro Detroit except for Auburn Hills. They're aight), gun control, trump, obama, bush, clinton, reagan, carter, chipotle and snotty in crowd teens. Ugh I can't deal with them
Hurdergaryp wrote:Humanity keeps seeing itself as the crown of creation, but to this world we're a crown of thorns at best.

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James_xenoland
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Posts: 271
Founded: May 31, 2005
Father Knows Best State

Postby James_xenoland » Thu Mar 26, 2020 5:48 am

What do I think will happen? Still too early to say for sure. But this isn't an end of the world, end or civilization or even an end of society level event. Maybe if the virus was about ~10% more lethal, it might have been able to make a move on current society. What I would like to see happen and in some cases NEEDS to happen:

The world comes to understand that we're are not ready to safely open our borders so completely that we can't control them anymore... even in an outbreak. With it needs to come a view of air travel which doesn't see it as being so important that we would only ever even THINK about stopping it in the worst of the very worst cases. (and even then with the least possible effort to enforce it) Trade is the only serious international type of travel that could be seen as essential. Special agreements and preparations need to be put in place to ensure important trade can continue in an outbreak without threat of spreading the illness. (market "OFW LTLWI" needs to be invoked here likely. more on that later) The idea that the global economy collapses because some business men and women can't make that monthly trip half way around the world for a few months, is ****ing absurd! (not saying people are necessarily claiming such, just pointing it out) Tourism is a luxury (OFW LTLWI) it's not the world or rest of society's fault that you setup your industry on a single thing, with no secondary possible backup plans. Life or death > luxury.

There should also be a demand (even legally) for the return home of all production of the items a country uses and a legal mandate for the return of all important production. (medical, defense, electronics, production equipment, food etc) International trade should mostly be for regional goods (like media, some types of food items and raw materials) and in things smaller countries can't produce themselves. (OC trade in everything would be allowed, but for a price near~equal to the cost locally... so sane free trade, instead of current trade ideology) At the very utmost least, it should never be allowed to stay in a single country! Especially a totalitarian a/o authoritarian one!

The WHO NEEDS to be disbanded/replaced or at least completely cleared out from top to bottom and reworked. No politics, ideology or economics, only medicine! More than just heads need to roll at the very least! International orgs (UN etc) in general need to be fixed or dropped. Or at least leading to a long overdue rethinking. (the idea that we work with and allow authoritarian/totalitarian countries and others that stone rape victims to death or refuse to allow women to leave the house alone, into these organizations, with voting power no less, is an exercise in literal insanity! Unfortunately, no more or less so than the idea that these orgs are in anyway steppingstones to world government.) Governments need to sign more one-to-one agreements on issues dealing with outbreaks and other such risks. Particularly international travel! (like how to deal with cruise ships and air travel etc)

Most importantly, a PAINFUL (see "OFW LTLWI") top-to-bottom-bottom-to-top rethinking of how we as societies deal with future risk, especially random "only a matter of time" type risks! Because the current way we deal and prepare for risk is criminal. If it's going to happen, or if it happening can cost major loss of life and breakdown of society, then it needs to be dealt with now not later! Basically, if the speed or circumstances of an event are too great to deal with during said event, then government and others should be legally required to plan and prepare immediately. No more "putting off today what costs a lot, to worry about later instead." (see current outbreak and the global lack of medical supplies, equipment and meds.. or even plan B's. to name only the basics) The other half of our risk/threat problems come once the event begins. As we've seen here with corona, nobody wants/feels the need/is forced to do anything unless and until it's already clear that it should have been done already! (school closings, travel bans, event cancelling, emergency actions, lockdowns, quarantines etc.) And then even when something is done, it's usually ill planned or not thought about at all. (see closing down non-necessities but leaving schools open just because. etc) That shit needs to change. Planning as well as legally demanded actions need to be looked at and considered! We generally suck with risk.. We ignore inevitabilities like outbreaks, solarflare caused EMPs and other such things... While other "threats" need only be theoretical to move the world,.. if they have a popular enough ideology/activists behind them. Hopefully this makes certain people come rejoin reality, about actual risks and threats facing the world. To help deal with the actual risks and dangers that where and are ALWAYS sitting right in front of us!

Finally.. "OFW LTLWI" = Oh-fucking-well, learn to live with it! It's a concept that many are going to need to get accustomed to. The market is going to have a fit, but it was it's "wisdom" that got us here in the first place! But it'll learn to deal eventually. And if not...it's about time we did away with the ruinous idiocy that is the concept of "businesses/companies as a commodity" anyway! Take things back to sane standards. (of profit, not eternally increasing profits at all costs or else)
Last edited by James_xenoland on Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:11 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Novus America
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Posts: 31664
Founded: Jun 02, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Novus America » Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:32 am

Honestly I think we will go right back to our idiocy soon enough.
Although I hope people finally realize just how dangerous, fragile and stupid our global supply chain is, and how it completely fails in a crisis, too many people have invested too much in their lies to admit the truth and actually change.
___|_|___ _|__*__|_

Zombie Ike/Teddy Roosevelt 2020.

Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. Pragmatism is my ideology.

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Nakena
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Posts: 9498
Founded: May 06, 2017
Capitalizt

Postby Nakena » Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:55 am

Novus America wrote:Honestly I think we will go right back to our idiocy soon enough.
Although I hope people finally realize just how dangerous, fragile and stupid our global supply chain is, and how it completely fails in a crisis, too many people have invested too much in their lies to admit the truth and actually change.


I believe there will if there isnt already a change in mentality regards to lack of redundancy and fragile supply lines. It might be one big takeaway from the crisis.
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Novus America
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Founded: Jun 02, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Novus America » Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:08 am

Nakena wrote:
Novus America wrote:Honestly I think we will go right back to our idiocy soon enough.
Although I hope people finally realize just how dangerous, fragile and stupid our global supply chain is, and how it completely fails in a crisis, too many people have invested too much in their lies to admit the truth and actually change.


I believe there will if there isnt already a change in mentality regards to lack of redundancy and fragile supply lines. It might be one big takeaway from the crisis.


I hope you are right, but neoliberal “free trade” (when it actually as currently practiced fails to meet the criteria laid out by early advocates for free trade) has become an article of religious faith, not of practicality or logic, and corporations have sunk hundreds of billions of dollars into it.

I fear the combination of religious dogma sunk costs will be too much for this one crisis showing the failures to overcome.
Last edited by Novus America on Thu Mar 26, 2020 7:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
___|_|___ _|__*__|_

Zombie Ike/Teddy Roosevelt 2020.

Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. Pragmatism is my ideology.

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Cisairse
Senator
 
Posts: 3843
Founded: Mar 17, 2017
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Cisairse » Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:43 am

Thermodolia wrote:
Cisairse wrote:
Yeah. Humans will be damned if we give away our society for a virus that isn't even airborne.

About that


"Survives in the air" doesn't mean it's airborne.
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Nakena
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9498
Founded: May 06, 2017
Capitalizt

Postby Nakena » Fri Mar 27, 2020 10:20 am

Novus America wrote:
Nakena wrote:
I believe there will if there isnt already a change in mentality regards to lack of redundancy and fragile supply lines. It might be one big takeaway from the crisis.


I hope you are right, but neoliberal “free trade” (when it actually as currently practiced fails to meet the criteria laid out by early advocates for free trade) has become an article of religious faith, not of practicality or logic, and corporations have sunk hundreds of billions of dollars into it.

I fear the combination of religious dogma sunk costs will be too much for this one crisis showing the failures to overcome.


Depends how bad it gets.
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Novus America
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Posts: 31664
Founded: Jun 02, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Novus America » Fri Mar 27, 2020 10:24 am

Nakena wrote:
Novus America wrote:
I hope you are right, but neoliberal “free trade” (when it actually as currently practiced fails to meet the criteria laid out by early advocates for free trade) has become an article of religious faith, not of practicality or logic, and corporations have sunk hundreds of billions of dollars into it.

I fear the combination of religious dogma sunk costs will be too much for this one crisis showing the failures to overcome.


Depends how bad it gets.


True, but I am not sure this is bad enough.
I mean I want it to die, but have become disillusioned as it has steamrolled across the world, leaving devastation behind and people cheer it on.
___|_|___ _|__*__|_

Zombie Ike/Teddy Roosevelt 2020.

Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. Pragmatism is my ideology.

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