The Ethics of Visiting North Korea

[Northern Davincia]

Yeah, that is what I disagree with. If you visit, the most oppressive regime of the modern world profits.

Okay, stop driving cars then, because that funds plenty of oppressive regimes.

Supply chains can be moved out of oppressive regimes. Tourism, less so.

[Kannap]

Yeah, that is what I disagree with. If you visit, the most oppressive regime of the modern world profits.

Okay, stop driving cars then, because that funds plenty of oppressive regimes.

One of many good excuses to be anti-private transportation and pro-public transit.

[Risottia]

This thread is simple enough.

Assuming there's no virus going around, two questions:

1. Would you want to visit North Korea as a tourist?
2. Is it ethical to visit North Korea?

By the same standards, visiting the US of A would raise the ethical question of supporting death penalty and mass racial profiling through the tax revenue your taxes would generate.

[Risottia]

Okay, stop driving cars then, because that funds plenty of oppressive regimes.

Supply chains can be moved out of oppressive regimes. Tourism, less so.

Well, it would be enough to avoid leisure activities in countries that systematically violate human rights.
I'm sure that moving one's own leisure activities is easier than moving one's own fuel sources.

[Northern Davincia]

Okay, stop driving cars then, because that funds plenty of oppressive regimes.

One of many good excuses to be anti-private transportation and pro-public transit.

Or we could have freedom instead.

This thread is simple enough.

Assuming there's no virus going around, two questions:

1. Would you want to visit North Korea as a tourist?
2. Is it ethical to visit North Korea?

By the same standards, visiting the US of A would raise the ethical question of supporting death penalty and mass racial profiling through the tax revenue your taxes would generate.

Money spent in North Korea ends up entirely in the hands of the regime. Money spent in the US goes mainly to whatever business you patronize.

[Kannap]

One of many good excuses to be anti-private transportation and pro-public transit.

Or we could have freedom instead.

Freedom to continue buying whatever brand of car we like but still not have viable nationwide options for public transit?

[LiberNovusAmericae]

It's not immoral, but it is stupid. The rule of law is nonexistent there and as a result, the regime can have you imprisoned, tortured, and executed for any reason. It presents an unnecessary risk to yourself and any people who come with you.

[LiberNovusAmericae]

This thread is simple enough.

Assuming there's no virus going around, two questions:

1. Would you want to visit North Korea as a tourist?
2. Is it ethical to visit North Korea?

By the same standards, visiting the US of A would raise the ethical question of supporting death penalty and mass racial profiling through the tax revenue your taxes would generate.

Neither is unethical. North Korea won't collapse due to lack of tourists and neither will the U.S., though our human rights problems are much more minor than NK's.

[Vivolkha]

1. I would like to, but probably not going to do it anytime soon because of obvious and not-so-obvious personal security concerns.
2. It's more of a personal experience for you, because I don't really think tourist money will return to their people, unless by some miracle they let you buy in the dubiously legal non-state-controlled markets.

You won't see how the people live. You'll see a very choreographed fantasy version prepared by the regime. And all the "dark tourism" money will go directly into the regime's pocket. Ethical? No. But maybe interesting as a study in propaganda.

While your itinerary is very controlled and rife with propaganda, they are actually not that good at hiding the country's conditions, based on documentaries by infiltrated journalists in the country. You will not be able to keep a record of it (i.e. no photos, etc.) but the contradictions in what they say and even what you see are easy to spot, especially if you are informed.

[Northern Davincia]

Or we could have freedom instead.

Freedom to continue buying whatever brand of car we like but still not have viable nationwide options for public transit?

Yes. Freedom is what you can do, not what others can give to you.

[Page]

I wouldn't do it, but my reasons are more rooted in self-preservation than ethics.

How much tourism benefits the regime vs. regular people, I don't think there is an easy answer to that question.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Personally? No. I do not wish to visit North Korea. I don’t see a shithead dictatorship where everything is controlled by a megalomaniac family and offers no freedom of movement as a desirable destination. Is it ethical? It is what it is. If you want to visit, go ahead.

[Kannap]

Freedom to continue buying whatever brand of car we like but still not have viable nationwide options for public transit?

Yes. Freedom is what you can do, not what others can give to you.

More people would have the freedom to travel around our own country if nationwide good standard public transit was available but I digress, this is a topic for another thread and another day.

[Bear Stearns]

Given that our politicians in the past have gleefully visited Saudi Arabia, the Soviet Union, Israel, Turkey, Saddam's Iraq, the United Arab Emirates, and Kuwait, regular citizens visiting North Korea seems like small potatoes.

[Bear Stearns]

what do you mean by this

North Korea is a drug/counterfeit/human trafficking empire. It's how it makes the Kim family and the rest of their cronies so rich. The only thing you see visiting North Korea is a carefully scripted set of vignettes that the regime wants you to see to try and convince the world that they aren't the vicious tyrants that they in reality are.

They aren't that rich. There are professional athletes wealthier than them.

[Heloin]

North Korea is a drug/counterfeit/human trafficking empire. It's how it makes the Kim family and the rest of their cronies so rich. The only thing you see visiting North Korea is a carefully scripted set of vignettes that the regime wants you to see to try and convince the world that they aren't the vicious tyrants that they in reality are.

They aren't that rich. There are professional athletes wealthier than them.

In the Kingdom of the Blind the one eyed man is king. It doesn't matter that other people are richer then the Kim family, the Kim family own a country effectively and use that country as one of the largest criminal enterprises on earth to fund their lifestyle, dictatorial rule, and nuclear and conventional weapons.

[Major-Tom]

It would be so intriguing and surreal to visit N.K, I've always had this morbid curiosity about the place. But venturing there is unethical, you're sending $$$ to the most deranged, inhuman government on the planet. Furthermore, whose to say you're not endangering other North Koreans, say your tour guide, locals, just because you might slip up.

[Trollzyn the Infinite]

1. Would you want to visit North Korea as a tourist?
2. Is it ethical to visit North Korea?

No and no.

/thread

[United Muscovite Nations]

It would be so intriguing and surreal to visit N.K, I've always had this morbid curiosity about the place. But venturing there is unethical, you're sending $$$ to the most deranged, inhuman government on the planet. Furthermore, whose to say you're not endangering other North Koreans, say your tour guide, locals, just because you might slip up.

You send money to dictatorships with almost every transaction you make.

[Albrenia]

It would be so intriguing and surreal to visit N.K, I've always had this morbid curiosity about the place. But venturing there is unethical, you're sending $$$ to the most deranged, inhuman government on the planet. Furthermore, whose to say you're not endangering other North Koreans, say your tour guide, locals, just because you might slip up.

You send money to dictatorships with almost every transaction you make.

Does that excuse doing it just for the lols then?

Polluting is bad, but we still do it every time we drive a car or even fart, nonetheless we shouldn't start burning down forests for cheap laughs.

[United Muscovite Nations]

You send money to dictatorships with almost every transaction you make.

Does that excuse doing it just for the lols then?

Polluting is bad, but we still do it every time we drive a car or even fart, nonetheless we shouldn't start burning down forests for cheap laughs.

It means if you're going to get on your high horse for $2000 dollars to North Korea, do it for the tens of thousands you probably send every year to Saudi Arabia.

[Trollzyn the Infinite]

Does that excuse doing it just for the lols then?

Polluting is bad, but we still do it every time we drive a car or even fart, nonetheless we shouldn't start burning down forests for cheap laughs.

It means if you're going to get on your high horse for $2000 dollars to North Korea, do it for the tens of thousands you probably send every year to Saudi Arabia.

*laughs in bicycle*

[Albrenia]

Does that excuse doing it just for the lols then?

Polluting is bad, but we still do it every time we drive a car or even fart, nonetheless we shouldn't start burning down forests for cheap laughs.

It means if you're going to get on your high horse for $2000 dollars to North Korea, do it for the tens of thousands you probably send every year to Saudi Arabia.

So you're saying that it does excuse it? That the unfortunate state of things funnels money into the pockets of monsters means we can, indeed, do it for fun without the need to reconsider?

[Vetalia]

No way, the last thing I'd need is to accidentally screw something up and get imprisoned.

However, I don't think it's unethical to do so - yes, in theory the money might go to support the regime but it also provides a livelihood for many people and an opportunity, however limited, to expose them to the outside world. It's no more unethical than buying products made in China or oil from Saudi Arabia, or any product or service from any country with a terrible human rights record.

[United Muscovite Nations]

It means if you're going to get on your high horse for $2000 dollars to North Korea, do it for the tens of thousands you probably send every year to Saudi Arabia.

So you're saying that it does excuse it? That the unfortunate state of things funnels money into the pockets of monsters means we can, indeed, do it for fun without the need to reconsider?

It doesn't excuse it, but acting like your consumption is more ethical than going on a trip to North Korea is hypocritical as all hell.