The Ethics of Visiting North Korea

[Infected Mushroom]

It would be as exciting as visiting the capital of a real medieval kingdom except in the 21st century.

This is definitely amongst my top 10 must sees.

[Albennia]

It would be as exciting as visiting the capital of a real medieval kingdom except in the 21st century.

This is definitely amongst my top 10 must sees.

For the first one you can go to Liechtenstein. Hell, if you've got the cash you can rent the entire place

[Infected Mushroom]

It would be as exciting as visiting the capital of a real medieval kingdom except in the 21st century.

This is definitely amongst my top 10 must sees.

For the first one you can go to Liechtenstein. Hell, if you've got the cash you can rent the entire place

I'll add it to the list. From a wiki search, Liechtenstein also looks like a very beautiful country and I like castles a lot.

[Kannap]

It would be as exciting as visiting the capital of a real medieval kingdom except in the 21st century.

This is definitely amongst my top 10 must sees.

Exciting in the same way ziplining with a broken harness is exciting.

[United Muscovite Nations]

I believe North Korea is an alternative system (and one of the only remaining holdouts against capitalistic globalism) and I'd definitely want to see how the people live.

I think it’s pretty clear that the propaganda machine that is North Korean tourism was built with people like you in mind.

There's nothing untrue about what he said there.

[United Muscovite Nations]

I'd want to go visit just to see it because it's the only place of its kind in the world. As for the ethics, it's no more unethical than visiting any other authoritarian country or enabling them in other ways. If anything it can encourage more openness on the part of the regime.

[United Muscovite Nations]

You won't see how the people live. You'll see a very choreographed fantasy version prepared by the regime. And all the "dark tourism" money will go directly into the regime's pocket. Ethical? No. But maybe interesting as a study in propaganda.

That's only true for the group tours. On individual tours you get a lot more freedom and are able to meet real people as the minders can more closely supervise you, and the minders are also willing to discuss politics with you.

t. have a friend IRL who went on an individual tour in NoKo.

[Infected Mushroom]

You won't see how the people live. You'll see a very choreographed fantasy version prepared by the regime. And all the "dark tourism" money will go directly into the regime's pocket. Ethical? No. But maybe interesting as a study in propaganda.

That's only true for the group tours. On individual tours you get a lot more freedom and are able to meet real people as the minders can more closely supervise you, and the minders are also willing to discuss politics with you.

t. have a friend IRL who went on an individual tour in NoKo.

Did he have a good time?

I hear they treat tourists quite well

[United Muscovite Nations]

That's only true for the group tours. On individual tours you get a lot more freedom and are able to meet real people as the minders can more closely supervise you, and the minders are also willing to discuss politics with you.

t. have a friend IRL who went on an individual tour in NoKo.

Did he have a good time?

I hear they treat tourists quite well

He did, he said that he and the minders got into a few big arguments about politics though, and that his hotel was really crummy (individual tours stay in a less sheltered hotel than the one group tourists stay in).

[Infected Mushroom]

Did he have a good time?

I hear they treat tourists quite well

He did, he said that he and the minders got into a few big arguments about politics though, and that his hotel was really crummy (individual tours stay in a less sheltered hotel than the one group tourists stay in).

I see...

Was the food to his liking?

[United Muscovite Nations]

He did, he said that he and the minders got into a few big arguments about politics though, and that his hotel was really crummy (individual tours stay in a less sheltered hotel than the one group tourists stay in).

I see...

Was the food to his liking?

He said it was fine, but some of it lacked taste.

[Northern Davincia]

Is it ethical? No. I would like to visit someday regardless, but I have reason to be cautious in the event of arrest.

[Geneviev]

1. I am curious about North Korea and would be interested in seeing what it's really like. However, 2. it is an oppressive regime and I would not like to pay for people being killed if they disagree.

[Infected Mushroom]

1. I am curious about North Korea and would be interested in seeing what it's really like. However, 2. it is an oppressive regime and I would not like to pay for people being killed if they disagree.

so are you saying you would only visit if it's for free? if you didn't have to pay?

[Geneviev]

1. I am curious about North Korea and would be interested in seeing what it's really like. However, 2. it is an oppressive regime and I would not like to pay for people being killed if they disagree.

so are you saying you would only visit if it's for free? if you didn't have to pay?

If the government doesn't profit, yes. If the tour was organized by a private third party I could consider paying as well.

[Infected Mushroom]

so are you saying you would only visit if it's for free? if you didn't have to pay?

If the government doesn't profit, yes. If the tour was organized by a private third party I could consider paying as well.

I see...

It says on wikipedia:

Tourism in North Korea is tightly controlled by the North Korean government. Only about 4,000 to 6,000 Western tourists visit North Korea each year. All tourism is organized by one of several state-owned tourism bureaus, including Korea International Travel Company (KITC), Korean International Sports Travel Company (KISTC), Korean International Taekwondo Tourism Company (KITTC) and Korean International Youth Travel Company (KIYTC).[1]

[Infected Mushroom]

Is it ethical? No. I would like to visit someday regardless, but I have reason to be cautious in the event of arrest.

My understanding is that if you obey the laws and show a moderate level of deference, there would be no arrests

this is a state of affairs that is acceptable to me because I respect the law wherever I go

[Kannap]

If the government doesn't profit, yes. If the tour was organized by a private third party I could consider paying as well.

I see...

It says on wikipedia:

Tourism in North Korea is tightly controlled by the North Korean government. Only about 4,000 to 6,000 Western tourists visit North Korea each year. All tourism is organized by one of several state-owned tourism bureaus, including Korea International Travel Company (KITC), Korean International Sports Travel Company (KISTC), Korean International Taekwondo Tourism Company (KITTC) and Korean International Youth Travel Company (KIYTC).[1]

I've always said that the best way to experience a place you're traveling to is to have a certain perspective forced upon you by official authorities.

[Kannap]

Is it ethical? No. I would like to visit someday regardless, but I have reason to be cautious in the event of arrest.

My understanding is that if you obey the laws and show a moderate level of deference, there would be no arrests

this is a state of affairs that is acceptable to me because I respect the law wherever I go

And I jaywalk wherever I go to balance everything out.

[Deacarsia]

1. I would never want to visit North Korea as a tourist.
2. It is highly unethical to visit North Korea.

I think your friend entirely is right, and I think you are extremely naïve if you think otherwise.

[Geneviev]

If the government doesn't profit, yes. If the tour was organized by a private third party I could consider paying as well.

I see...

It says on wikipedia:

Tourism in North Korea is tightly controlled by the North Korean government. Only about 4,000 to 6,000 Western tourists visit North Korea each year. All tourism is organized by one of several state-owned tourism bureaus, including Korea International Travel Company (KITC), Korean International Sports Travel Company (KISTC), Korean International Taekwondo Tourism Company (KITTC) and Korean International Youth Travel Company (KIYTC).[1]

Yeah, that is what I disagree with. If you visit, the most oppressive regime of the modern world profits.

[Northern Davincia]

Is it ethical? No. I would like to visit someday regardless, but I have reason to be cautious in the event of arrest.

My understanding is that if you obey the laws and show a moderate level of deference, there would be no arrests

this is a state of affairs that is acceptable to me because I respect the law wherever I go

It's not necessarily me being arrested that worries me. That's a potential outcome anywhere I go. It's either becoming a hostage or ending up dead that really worries me.

[Geneviev]

I see...

It says on wikipedia:

I've always said that the best way to experience a place you're traveling to is to have a certain perspective forced upon you by official authorities.

To be fair, I think we do know better, so it's not really a problem for tourists.

[Dogmeat]

Unless you're a journalist, I can't imagine there being any value in this. Even if you are a journalist, there's probably not much since you won't be allowed to interact meaningfully with anyone, and will only be shown what the regime wants you to see.

Fantasies about being subversive and telling the residents all kinds of things, or slipping in media, are a lot less practical and a lot less laudable in real life then they are in fantasy. Knowledge of the outside world comes to the DPRK through carefully crafted back-channels. The people you will be allowed to deal with know that they are being watched, and know how dangerous participation in that kind of thing is. You will be reported and imprisoned, and if they're not lucky so will they. Don't do this.

[United Muscovite Nations]

I see...

It says on wikipedia:

Yeah, that is what I disagree with. If you visit, the most oppressive regime of the modern world profits.

Okay, stop driving cars then, because that funds plenty of oppressive regimes.