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The Ethics of Visiting North Korea

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

(assuming no virus around) Would you want to visit North Korea as a tourist? Is it ethical to do so?

I would want to visit, it wouldn't be unethical
48
28%
I would want to visit, despite it being unethical
32
19%
I wouldn't want to visit, such a visit is inherently unethical
52
30%
I wouldn't want to visit, even though there's nothing unethical about such a visit
40
23%
 
Total votes : 172

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Infected Mushroom
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The Ethics of Visiting North Korea

Postby Infected Mushroom » Mon Mar 23, 2020 3:10 am

This thread is simple enough.

Assuming there's no virus going around, two questions:

1. Would you want to visit North Korea as a tourist?
2. Is it ethical to visit North Korea?


My friend is of the opinion that visiting North Korea (and paying tourism money) is inherently an action that supports the regime in North Korea, and they consider it to be profoundly immoral.

However, I have always been curious about North Korea and would certainly like to, in less turbulent times, visit.

I have heard that they have these tours where you can go to Pyongyang and see how the North Korea people live and that while you're on those tours, aside from you having to be with a "tour guide" at all times and having to travel according to a schedule, they don't do a whole lot to oppress you.

On Youtube, there are many glowing reviews of the trips to North Korea. The only thing that's "controversial" about the visits is that if you want to see the golden Kim statues, you have to bow (it's a rule). But it's not that bad...

State tourism is a growing (or was a growing) industry in North Korea.

Alright, enough talking from me.

Remember the discussion questions... assuming there's no virus... 1. Would you want to go on a trip to North Korea as a tourist? 2. Is it ethical to do so?

Why?

1. I would want to visit. I believe North Korea is an alternative system (and one of the only remaining holdouts against capitalistic globalism) and I'd definitely want to see how the people live. Even though I understand the government would only want you to see certain parts of the country, it would still be a very interesting and enlightening experience.

2. I do not believe there is anything immoral about such a trip (although I know many who disagree).
Last edited by Infected Mushroom on Mon Mar 23, 2020 3:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Heloin
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Postby Heloin » Mon Mar 23, 2020 3:16 am

Infected Mushroom wrote:I believe North Korea is an alternative system (and one of the only remaining holdouts against capitalistic globalism) and I'd definitely want to see how the people live.

I think it’s pretty clear that the propaganda machine that is North Korean tourism was built with people like you in mind.
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Roegerland
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Postby Roegerland » Mon Mar 23, 2020 3:19 am

I would want to visit out of sheer curiosity, despite it being unethical.

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-Astoria
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Postby -Astoria » Mon Mar 23, 2020 3:21 am

I would only go only for the sake of curiosity, and nothing else.

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Waldoven
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Postby Waldoven » Mon Mar 23, 2020 3:23 am

1. No, I don't want to risk being one of those rare tourists who throw litter and gets sent to prison

2. I kinda think it is not immoral but a little bit of convincing and evidence might change my opinion Unethical and Immoral. Fullstop
Last edited by Waldoven on Mon Mar 23, 2020 7:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Oneid » Mon Mar 23, 2020 3:23 am

I would love to visit, I think where is the unethics of visiting.
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Postby Samudera Darussalam » Mon Mar 23, 2020 3:30 am

1. "Would you want".....uh, well I have to admit that I'm curious about the nation ruled by the Kim dynasty, so yeah, probably. It won't make my top list though.

2. "Immoral". Hmm. I don't think that.....it's immoral to visit the country, but I'm not really sure about it either.
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Postby Dumb Ideologies » Mon Mar 23, 2020 3:40 am

You won't see how the people live. You'll see a very choreographed fantasy version prepared by the regime. And all the "dark tourism" money will go directly into the regime's pocket. Ethical? No. But maybe interesting as a study in propaganda.
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Heloin
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Postby Heloin » Mon Mar 23, 2020 3:45 am

Dumb Ideologies wrote:You won't see how the people live. You'll see a very choreographed fantasy version prepared by the regime. And all the "dark tourism" money will go directly into the regime's pocket. Ethical? No. But maybe interesting as a study in propaganda.

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Albrenia
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Postby Albrenia » Mon Mar 23, 2020 3:59 am

I wouldn't want to put any money into the coffers of one of the more detestable dictators out of an already bad bunch. Executing people via flame thrower, and punishing the children and parents of criminals to the same punishment as the offender are just some of the horrors the fat little shit does to people.

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Infected Mushroom
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Postby Infected Mushroom » Mon Mar 23, 2020 4:04 am

Heloin wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:I believe North Korea is an alternative system (and one of the only remaining holdouts against capitalistic globalism) and I'd definitely want to see how the people live.

I think it’s pretty clear that the propaganda machine that is North Korean tourism was built with people like you in mind.


what do you mean by this
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Heloin
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Postby Heloin » Mon Mar 23, 2020 4:14 am

Infected Mushroom wrote:
Heloin wrote:I think it’s pretty clear that the propaganda machine that is North Korean tourism was built with people like you in mind.


what do you mean by this

North Korea is a drug/counterfeit/human trafficking empire. It's how it makes the Kim family and the rest of their cronies so rich. The only thing you see visiting North Korea is a carefully scripted set of vignettes that the regime wants you to see to try and convince the world that they aren't the vicious tyrants that they in reality are.
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Kannap
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Postby Kannap » Mon Mar 23, 2020 5:47 am

I have no desire to visit North Korea, in fact any desire related to North Korea would be to work with organizations or donate to charities that help North Koreans who want to leave flee their homeland.
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Bulgar Rouge
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Postby Bulgar Rouge » Mon Mar 23, 2020 5:53 am

Nothing unethical. Exposing North Koreans to foreigners can only be a net positive.

In fact, paying your taxes could be more unethical than that...

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Postby Andsed » Mon Mar 23, 2020 5:55 am

Dumb Ideologies wrote:You won't see how the people live. You'll see a very choreographed fantasy version prepared by the regime. And all the "dark tourism" money will go directly into the regime's pocket. Ethical? No. But maybe interesting as a study in propaganda.

Yep the North Korean regime is not going to allow you to see how the people are actually living. Because the people are living in squalor and in poverty and that truth is something the regime does not want known.
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Arlye Austros
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Postby Arlye Austros » Mon Mar 23, 2020 5:55 am

Funny that you ask, I saw a video that tackled on this same issue a while ago. Here it is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aiGVlGpVKA

It's from a guy who visited NK some years ago and arguable caused a slight surge on the travels booked to Pyongyang. Personally I agree with the guy on a large scale.

1- Yes, out of sheer curiosity. Question is if I would be fine with not questioning the government handlers and trying to play with the rules a bit, or if I would conform with the government-sanctioned version of their reality.
2- No, it isn't, as every dollar you spend there goes into financing a regime that, with its benefits that you may argue, it is authoritarian and dictatorial.
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Postby The Holy Therns » Mon Mar 23, 2020 6:02 am

Oh, IM, honey, no.
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Thermodolia
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Postby Thermodolia » Mon Mar 23, 2020 6:09 am

No I’d never visit NK, just like I’ll never visit China, Iran, and a few other shitholes. Unless of course I’m deployed there

And yes it’s very much unethical. You are supporting a regime that murders whole families for the crimes of one individual
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Postby Pilipinas and Malaya » Mon Mar 23, 2020 6:09 am

Andsed wrote:
Dumb Ideologies wrote:You won't see how the people live. You'll see a very choreographed fantasy version prepared by the regime. And all the "dark tourism" money will go directly into the regime's pocket. Ethical? No. But maybe interesting as a study in propaganda.

Yep the North Korean regime is not going to allow you to see how the people are actually living. Because the people are living in squalor and in poverty and that truth is something the regime does not want known.


And you'll most likely be landing in Pyongyang, which is modernised enough that it looks like any major city in Asia that's well developed enough. People also say that most of those who live in Pyongyang are handpicked by the government because of their loyalty to the regime and status, etc.

But my two cents on the actual hypothetical is no. I would not be visiting it because I would be providing some form of economic assistance to the Kim Regime. I would like to go there, but simply because of the reason above, no. Same for many other countries under the rule of an iron fist leader with little care for its civilians, including the China IM so fiercely defends.
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Postby The Empire of Pretantia » Mon Mar 23, 2020 6:10 am

I would visit and slip them a hard drive full of movies and shows.
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Postby Pilipinas and Malaya » Mon Mar 23, 2020 6:13 am

The Empire of Pretantia wrote:I would visit and slip them a hard drive full of movies and shows.


Maybe drop in Crash Landing on You and see how accurate they think the depiction of North Korea is haha.
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Thermodolia
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Postby Thermodolia » Mon Mar 23, 2020 6:13 am

The Empire of Pretantia wrote:I would visit and slip them a hard drive full of movies and shows.

Tell it’s America secrets. It’s technically true. They are american and they are a secret
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Postby Europa Undivided » Mon Mar 23, 2020 6:16 am

I would visit with the sole purpose of getting in a team of elite operatives to depose the Kim family.
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Postby Samudera Darussalam » Mon Mar 23, 2020 6:27 am

Thermodolia wrote:
The Empire of Pretantia wrote:I would visit and slip them a hard drive full of movies and shows.

Tell it’s America secrets. It’s technically true. They are american and they are a secret

Eh, I wonder if such an act may cause uprising in Best Korea. Just imagine, "The Films' Revolution is instigated by several Americans who slip a hard drive full of movies...."
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Albennia
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Postby Albennia » Mon Mar 23, 2020 6:34 am

It would be perfectly ethical - as much as some people here will hate me saying it, North Korea is not Nazi Germany. People do not get torn to pieces by dogs outside of the pages of the South Korean far-right press (I know the name that's commonly used but I'm not taking my chances with the mods) (stories that are then reported uncritically by Western news outlets). What exists there today is a drastic improvement on what has existed there before.

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Last edited by Albennia on Mon Mar 23, 2020 6:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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