Abortion Law Reform Passes in New Zealand

[Ors Might]

Catch me in person. I'll make that argument all day. And have. In front of professional peers, no less.



We grabbed a supply of Plan B as a precaution. Promises to be a good time.

I can admit a fetus is human, tbh. It’s made of human cells after all. I just don’t consider a fetus has personhood and I think it’s a woman’s choice, what she decides with her body. If this means terminating a pregnancy, it’s fine.

Eh, personhood as a philosophical concept can, in all fairness, be best summed up as “complicated as all fuck”.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

I can admit a fetus is human, tbh. It’s made of human cells after all. I just don’t consider a fetus has personhood and I think it’s a woman’s choice, what she decides with her body. If this means terminating a pregnancy, it’s fine.

Eh, personhood as a philosophical concept can, in all fairness, be best summed up as “complicated as all fuck”.

Indeed. It is.

[Katganistan]

Ya know I’m pretty sure we are going to have a baby boom from all of this COVID-19 stuff

I don't care how good you think you are, six feet is a hell of a distance to impregnate someone from.

I bet Superman could do it.

I personally think Children of The Corn would be a fun one.

How about SAW or It? We could use a good horror

Rosemary's Baby
The Bad Seed or its gender bending remake The Good Son.

[Czechoslovakia and Zakarpatia]

1. Gee, maybe the tree they ate from shouldn't have been called the Tree of Knowledge or something then.
2. Yes it was, and this is quite common among religions with more dictatorial deities, that learning or advancing culturally/socially/technologically is bad. Prometheus and Greek mythology is also a great example of this behavior and belief.
3. They were punished because they were gaining an ability God didn't want them to have and punished them for daring to gain some semblance of independence.

Sounds like my parents. Especially the last one. I remember getting a beat down/getting yelled at for getting caught looking up what a dysfunctional family was.

They obviously panicked that you were about to learn who they truly were, and so they desperately tried to "shut it down". I hope you got away from such horrible environment by now, because abusive individuals don't even deserve to be called parents.

[Forsher]

Unfortunately due to some eel-like slipperiness from one of the MP's, protesters can now gather outside clinics and other facilities offering abortions unimpeded, as Parliament inadvertently voted in favour of an addition to the legislation that removed the implementation of safe zones, and there was no real legislative way to reinstate them.

Parliament can do anything it wants. For example, they could pass a law tomorrow requiring that all new arrivals are shot and cremated, while the day after passing another law saying anyone displaying symptoms is to be shot and cremated also. And then the day after that they can finally get around to killing all the blue eyed babies. God knows they've been talking about that for long enough.

I suspect what you mean is that they couldn't be arsed doing it since it'd be additional legislative work.

The protest thing is an interesting question. On the one hand, I can see why you'd want such a law. On the other hand, I have seen those Boston Legal episodes about having anti-Bush protesters be corralled to certain (out of the way/irrelevant) areas.

Mostly I really don't care. As Costa has pointed out, it was really a more "technically" illegal problem than "illegal". A bit like how NZ's oldest laws kind of possibly predate human inhabitation of the physical landmass (Magna Carta dates to 1215, but not the version on the statute books, and Maori are thought to have arrived ca. 1250). I get that abortion means a lot to a lot of people, but it's not an issue I have ever cared overly much about. I agree it shouldn't be a criminal matter, but not enough to see exactly what we've done is what I'm saying.

Good, I hope New Zealand continues to be one of the best English speaking countries and that conservative and religious shackles continue to break world wide.

More like... you don't know very much about NZ.

On this particular issue NZ was very much behind the US (which has strong legal protections for abortion but no political protections), except in the sense it's not a political issue here. It'd be a bit like suggesting statehood for American Samoa is a major political issue in the US. I'm sure there are some people who care very deeply about it, but it just doesn't come up. There's a reason why the previous Labour government spent nine years in power and never did this: there's not much reward for doing so. (This Labour government is much more style over substance... all its headline election policies have failed, been abandoned or are embroiled in entirely avoidable messes or were blantantly xenophobic and instituted almost immediately so everyone's forgotten about them... so this kind of "good headlines, minimal changes" policy works for them much more. It's not entirely their fault: this is not a strong Labour party, it's very constrained by the nature of the current governing coalition.)

[Shanghai industrial complex]

More like... you don't know very much about NZ.

On this particular issue NZ was very much behind the US (which has strong legal protections for abortion but no political protections), except in the sense it's not a political issue here. It'd be a bit like suggesting statehood for American Samoa is a major political issue in the US. I'm sure there are some people who care very deeply about it, but it just doesn't come up. There's a reason why the previous Labour government spent nine years in power and never did this: there's not much reward for doing so. (This Labour government is much more style over substance... all its headline election policies have failed, been abandoned or are embroiled in entirely avoidable messes or were blantantly xenophobic and instituted almost immediately so everyone's forgotten about them... so this kind of "good headlines, minimal changes" policy works for them much more. It's not entirely their fault: this is not a strong Labour party, it's very constrained by the nature of the current governing coalition.)

Are you sure not bring abortion into politics?Because it's religion and politics that are now legal to stop abortion.
Mississippi officially approved the 13th Amendment on abolition on February 7, 2013.I don't think the United States is entitled to say that NZ goes behind him,on political protection.

[Thermodolia]

More like... you don't know very much about NZ.

On this particular issue NZ was very much behind the US (which has strong legal protections for abortion but no political protections), except in the sense it's not a political issue here. It'd be a bit like suggesting statehood for American Samoa is a major political issue in the US. I'm sure there are some people who care very deeply about it, but it just doesn't come up. There's a reason why the previous Labour government spent nine years in power and never did this: there's not much reward for doing so. (This Labour government is much more style over substance... all its headline election policies have failed, been abandoned or are embroiled in entirely avoidable messes or were blantantly xenophobic and instituted almost immediately so everyone's forgotten about them... so this kind of "good headlines, minimal changes" policy works for them much more. It's not entirely their fault: this is not a strong Labour party, it's very constrained by the nature of the current governing coalition.)

Are you sure not bring abortion into politics?Because it's religion and politics that are now legal to stop abortion.
Mississippi officially approved the 13th Amendment on abolition on February 7, 2013.I don't think the United States is entitled to say that NZ goes behind him,on political protection.

The official ratification had no legal effect anyway as the 13th was already law and had been in Mississippi for quite some time

[Forsher]

More like... you don't know very much about NZ.

On this particular issue NZ was very much behind the US (which has strong legal protections for abortion but no political protections), except in the sense it's not a political issue here. It'd be a bit like suggesting statehood for American Samoa is a major political issue in the US. I'm sure there are some people who care very deeply about it, but it just doesn't come up. There's a reason why the previous Labour government spent nine years in power and never did this: there's not much reward for doing so. (This Labour government is much more style over substance... all its headline election policies have failed, been abandoned or are embroiled in entirely avoidable messes or were blantantly xenophobic and instituted almost immediately so everyone's forgotten about them... so this kind of "good headlines, minimal changes" policy works for them much more. It's not entirely their fault: this is not a strong Labour party, it's very constrained by the nature of the current governing coalition.)

Are you sure not bring abortion into politics?Because it's religion and politics that are now legal to stop abortion.
Mississippi officially approved the 13th Amendment on abolition on February 7, 2013.I don't think the United States is entitled to say that NZ goes behind him,on political protection.

What the fuck?

I have no idea what that says at all.

What I said is that the US... despite constant political and cultural assault on abortion... has vastly stronger legal protections for it than NZ did (and, by the nature of NZ's law, still does... but this is because, as I indicated, our laws, almost all of them, can be changed in a matter of hours).


If you're trying to disagree with that, please use grammar to do so... in order that I may understand your point.

[The Alma Mater]

No, it isn't. There are plenty of pro-choice people who agree that the fetus is human; it's personhood that is the main issue, so check your facts before spouting this nonsense Hakons.

It's not nonsense, just look at literally any debate between politicians. The pro-choice side always abstracts and euphemises with "women's health," "a right to choose," ect... I have never, not even once, heard a pro-choice argument that admits the humanity of the fetus. I've only seen it on NSG, where people like you are more brazen than in real life.

The whole "no person can use another persons body against their will" line of reasoning is also quite common outside of NSG.

[New haven america]

No, it isn't. There are plenty of pro-choice people who agree that the fetus is human; it's personhood that is the main issue, so check your facts before spouting this nonsense Hakons.

It's not nonsense, just look at literally any debate between politicians. The pro-choice side always abstracts and euphemises with "women's health," "a right to choose," ect... I have never, not even once, heard a pro-choice argument that admits the humanity of the fetus. I've only seen it on NSG, where people like you are more brazen than in real life.

You could go back at least a couple pages and find it.

But would using the search bar be too much work is the question?

[Thermodolia]

Sounds like my parents. Especially the last one. I remember getting a beat down/getting yelled at for getting caught looking up what a dysfunctional family was.

They obviously panicked that you were about to learn who they truly were, and so they desperately tried to "shut it down". I hope you got away from such horrible environment by now, because abusive individuals don't even deserve to be called parents.

Funny enough I actually didn’t think we where dysfunctional until they out of the blue screamed that “we aren’t a dysfunctional family”.

Oh I haven’t lived with my parents since I was 18. I really am glad the military exists, that got me out of there.

[Czechoslovakia and Zakarpatia]

They obviously panicked that you were about to learn who they truly were, and so they desperately tried to "shut it down". I hope you got away from such horrible environment by now, because abusive individuals don't even deserve to be called parents.

Funny enough I actually didn’t think we where dysfunctional until they out of the blue screamed that “we aren’t a dysfunctional family”.

Oh I haven’t lived with my parents since I was 18. I really am glad the military exists, that got me out of there.

You know it's bad when even a military bootcamp is better than your family. I am glad you got out of there, and I hope you will be able to live a good life.

[Mettaton-EX]

a fetus is a person, but no person has the right to use another person's body without their consent.

this also means that you can't send anybody to prison if they're pregnant, since you would also be imprisoning an innocent person

[Shanghai industrial complex]

Are you sure not bring abortion into politics?Because it's religion and politics that are now legal to stop abortion.
Mississippi officially approved the 13th Amendment on abolition on February 7, 2013.I don't think the United States is entitled to say that NZ goes behind him,on political protection.

What the fuck?

I have no idea what that says at all.

What I said is that the US... despite constant political and cultural assault on abortion... has vastly stronger legal protections for it than NZ did (and, by the nature of NZ's law, still does... but this is because, as I indicated, our laws, almost all of them, can be changed in a matter of hours).


If you're trying to disagree with that, please use grammar to do so... in order that I may understand your point.

emmmm OK,maybe I understand your point.You means US is doing poorly in politics, while NZ is doing poorly in law?

[Grenartia]

Catch me in person. I'll make that argument all day. And have. In front of professional peers, no less.



We grabbed a supply of Plan B as a precaution. Promises to be a good time.

I can admit a fetus is human, tbh. It’s made of human cells after all. I just don’t consider a fetus has personhood and I think it’s a woman’s choice, what she decides with her body. If this means terminating a pregnancy, it’s fine.

I mean, we don't force people to donate blood or organs to save someone else, so why should someone who gets pregnant have to be forced to carry the fetus to term?

[Forsher]

emmmm OK,maybe I understand your point.You means US is doing poorly in politics, while NZ is doing poorly in law?

Close enough.

[The New California Republic]

I can admit a fetus is human, tbh. It’s made of human cells after all. I just don’t consider a fetus has personhood and I think it’s a woman’s choice, what she decides with her body. If this means terminating a pregnancy, it’s fine.

I mean, we don't force people to donate blood or organs to save someone else, so why should someone who gets pregnant have to be forced to carry the fetus to term?

Yes, even if we assume the foetus for the sake of argument is a person, the question as to why the foetus gets a right that no other person has, i.e. to use another person's body against their will, for the foetus to override the bodily sovereignty of the woman and use her body in order for their own life to be saved, has not been answered in half a dozen of these abortion threads. Nobody, nobody, else has that right; so why the foetus gets it is unknown.

[Crockerland]

I mean, if we are going to be fair, men shouldn't be exempted from slut-shaming in those societies too.

And yet they are, more often than not. So they shouldn't be, but they are.

Also, slut shaming is stupid.

Slut shaming is a virtue.

[Godular]

And yet they are, more often than not. So they shouldn't be, but they are.

Also, slut shaming is stupid.

Slut shaming is a virtue.

That right there be some premium grade A bullshit.

[Liriena]

And yet they are, more often than not. So they shouldn't be, but they are.

Also, slut shaming is stupid.

Slut shaming is a virtue.

Savonarola called and said you're a prude

[Crockerland]

Slut shaming is a virtue.

Savonarola called and said you're a prude

Savonarola? I'm pretty sure you're confusing him with this guy:

[Kernen]

Savonarola called and said you're a prude

Savonarola? I'm pretty sure you're confusing him with this guy:

That meme hit me deep in the funnybone.

[Galloism]

a fetus is a person, but no person has the right to use another person's body without their consent.

this also means that you can't send anybody to prison if they're pregnant, since you would also be imprisoning an innocent person

Well, they don't really know the difference.

[Katganistan]

a fetus is a person, but no person has the right to use another person's body without their consent.

this also means that you can't send anybody to prison if they're pregnant, since you would also be imprisoning an innocent person

Untrue. There are babies born in prison, and then they go live with another relative.
I had a friend who was born in just such circumstances.

[Dogmeat]

a fetus is a person, but no person has the right to use another person's body without their consent.

this also means that you can't send anybody to prison if they're pregnant, since you would also be imprisoning an innocent person

Untrue. There are babies born in prison, and then they go live with another relative.
I had a friend who was born in just such circumstances.

Great guy. Went on to become a famous French policeman.