Legalization of hard drugs

[Gunyria]

Definition of Hard Drugs I want to work with: very strong illegal drugs such as heroin and cocaine, an addicting drug capable of producing severe physical or psychological dependence, as heroin.

Hello people! Most of my life I was anti-hard drugs because it seemed to me as unethical to let people legaly destroy their lifes and also I've had some friends who started with drugs and they completely changed. Some of my other reasons to be against hard drugs were my religion and my opinion that addiction is for weak people who can't controll them selves. But. In the last few weeks I've read a lot of articles about how the war on drugs made overall criminality higher etc. and also I have watched a documentary about how Portugal legalized all drugs and that led to much lower overdose rates and addiction rates.

Because of this, I would like to ask you, what do you base your opinions on hard drugs on? Is is religion, crime rate, addiction rate or something else? Please give me the best argunents for or against legalization of hard drugs

I will be really happy to see reasoning of both sides on this issue

[LiberNovusAmericae]

viewtopic.php?p=18946099#p18946099

/not a mod but you should read this.

[Gunyria]

https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?p=18946099#p18946099

/not a mod but you should read this.

Thank you my friend! I edited my post. Hope it's alright now

[Farnhamia]

https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?p=18946099#p18946099

/not a mod but you should read this.

I need to rewrite that, never been happy with it. And, funnily enough, everyone can tell who is a Mod and who isn't. Our nation names are in beautiful, radiant colors while you civilians have just plain old green. Not to mention the title displayed below our names. Thanks, though.

I would like to ask Gunyria what "hard drugs" are?

[Gunyria]

https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?p=18946099#p18946099

/not a mod but you should read this.

I need to rewrite that, never been happy with it. And, funnily enough, everyone can tell who is a Mod and who isn't. Our nation names are in beautiful, radiant colors while you civilians have just plain old green. Not to mention the title displayed below our names. Thanks, though.

I would like to ask Gunyria what "hard drugs" are?

Thank you very much for reminder. I wrote the definition I want to work with in my first post. Sorry for not putting that in the first time. Thanks again!

[The Black Forrest]

Depends on the drugs. Crystal Meth? That stuff really doesn’t have a way to return from.....

[Chan Island]

Depends on the drugs. Crystal Meth? That stuff really doesn’t have a way to return from.....

And crocadil is just straight up poison.

But I could see myself legalising some things classed as hard drugs, sure. Cocaine leaves for example are safely chewed widely across south america, and there's no reason why we could not tax and regulate that substance. Lots of bankers seem to take it anyway without it making them drop like flies.

[Bromagia]

No recreational drug should be illegal. Criminalization does not work, makes things worse, and is an unacceptable infringement on the free choice of others.

[Kargintina the Third]

Legalize all drugs

[LiberNovusAmericae]

https://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?p=18946099#p18946099

/not a mod but you should read this.

Thank you my friend! I edited my post. Hope it's alright now

No problem.

---

I think addiction is more of a disease so no favors are really being done by throwing addicts in prison just for putting a substance in their body. If they are violent, that is another story. Many of these non-violent addicts need treatment though, not the punitive force of the law.

[Ethel mermania]

In these times of global panic a little valium in the water supply may not be a bad idea.

[Chan Island]

In these times of global panic a little valium in the water supply may not be a bad idea.

And in times like these... it would be a fun science experiment to put LSD in the water supply.

[Des-Bal]

Depends on the drugs. Crystal Meth? That stuff really doesn’t have a way to return from.....

Yeah that's why everyone who has ever done it has died. Criminalizatiton of drugs does very little positive. If crystal meth was legally available and you knew exactly what was in it far fewer people would die from the violence uncertainty and lack of quality control associated with criminal enterprises.

[Rojava Free State]

Maybe not legalize as much as decriminalize.

[Rojava Free State]

In these times of global panic a little valium in the water supply may not be a bad idea.

And in times like these... it would be a fun science experiment to put LSD in the water supply.

that weed I smoked on Thursday was pretty trippy stuff. It was strong, we need to mark dispensaries as "Essential occupations" in these times of plague and shadow.

[Mushet]

Portugal decriminalized use of hard drugs, they didn't legalize them. There is a substantial difference. Whether it was a net positive or a net negative to them is debatable but it didn't plunge them into chaos. Myself I'm in favor of decriminalizing hard drugs, legalizing marijuana and perhaps other drugs like LSD with appropriate controls.

[Salus Maior]

Nah.

Required detox and rehab for addicts, continued harsh criminalization of trafficking/selling.

[Purpelia]

I would legalize all of it. All of it. Even the stuff that kills you instantly like drinking bleach. But I would put several conditions on that.
1. All drugs sold should have to go through the same quality control program as food or medicine. That way you could ensure people aren't getting poisoned by anything other than the poison they actually chose.
2. All drugs should be sold over the counter in pharmacies to ensure proper access to tools like syringes and thus reduce HIV transmission and the like.
3. All buyers should be forced to sign a waver disqualifying them for ever more from any and all social aid programs, the publicly funded healthcare system and the like.

[Rojava Free State]

I would legalize all of it. All of it. Even the stuff that kills you instantly like drinking bleach. But I would put several conditions on that.
1. All drugs sold should have to go through the same quality control program as food or medicine. That way you could ensure people aren't getting poisoned by anything other than the poison they actually chose.
2. All drugs should be sold over the counter in pharmacies to ensure proper access to tools like syringes and thus reduce HIV transmission and the like.
3. All buyers should be forced to sign a waver disqualifying them for ever more from any and all social aid programs, the publicly funded healthcare system and the like.

I think we should also establish a waiting period for first time users of three weeks. Within those three weeks they must be sent an anti drug flyer every day and if they still do dope at the end...

[Purpelia]

I would legalize all of it. All of it. Even the stuff that kills you instantly like drinking bleach. But I would put several conditions on that.
1. All drugs sold should have to go through the same quality control program as food or medicine. That way you could ensure people aren't getting poisoned by anything other than the poison they actually chose.
2. All drugs should be sold over the counter in pharmacies to ensure proper access to tools like syringes and thus reduce HIV transmission and the like.
3. All buyers should be forced to sign a waver disqualifying them for ever more from any and all social aid programs, the publicly funded healthcare system and the like.

I think we should also establish a waiting period for first time users of three weeks. Within those three weeks they must be sent an anti drug flyer every day and if they still do dope at the end...

I disagree. As far as I am concerned it is morally wrong for us to do anything to prevent or dissuade people from self destructing if that is their choice. Which is why I advocate cutting them off (#3). You want to drink bleach? Fine, drink bleach. It's your choice. Same for taking drugs, smoking or eating a bullet.

Bottom line is a person dying of a heroin overdose after years of use is no different than someone who sucked too hard on a shotgun. The only difference is how long the deliberate suicide took to set in. And as far as I care suicide is a human right.

[Nobel Hobos 2]

Yes. But I'd have a license required, with name and license number recorded when purchasing the legal drugs. Anyone who provides the drugs to children or administers them to anyone without consent, would lose their license.

Marijuana would not be licensed.

[Rojava Free State]

I think we should also establish a waiting period for first time users of three weeks. Within those three weeks they must be sent an anti drug flyer every day and if they still do dope at the end...

I disagree. As far as I am concerned it is morally wrong for us to do anything to prevent or dissuade people from self destructing if that is their choice. Which is why I advocate cutting them off (#3). You want to drink bleach? Fine, drink bleach. It's your choice. Same for taking drugs, smoking or eating a bullet.

Why is it morally wrong to try and save someone? If we talk even one person off of a ledge, I think we've done the greatest good.

[Purpelia]

I disagree. As far as I am concerned it is morally wrong for us to do anything to prevent or dissuade people from self destructing if that is their choice. Which is why I advocate cutting them off (#3). You want to drink bleach? Fine, drink bleach. It's your choice. Same for taking drugs, smoking or eating a bullet.

Why is it morally wrong to try and save someone? If we talk even one person off of a ledge, I think we've done the greatest good.

Because in doing so you are undermining his agency and control over the most basic of human rights, that being the right to live. If you deny someone the right to chose his own death than you are denying him the right to chose his own life as well. So whilst it is good to save people who are sick or get into an accident or are attacked it is not good to "save" those who deliberately seek death out. Because life or death is their choice to make. And no matter how we feel about that choice we must allow them to make it.

[The Snazzylands]

I'm all for decriminalization. It should be very clear by now that having all forms of drug possession be a criminal offense does a lot more harm than good. Legalization is something different and could have some unforeseen negative consequences.

For example, the reason performance enhancing substances are banned in sports is because otherwise there would always be an incentive for every player to use them, as they give a substantial advantage over someone who does not.
This might be an extreme example, but people who work on Wall Street are known to often use amphetamines, cocaine, or other stimulants in order to keep up with all the work they're expected to do. If these drugs are outright legalized, it's possible that would just exacerbate the problem, and some people in highly competitive work environments could feel like they're expected to use these drugs in order to work more.

Depends on the drugs. Crystal Meth? That stuff really doesn’t have a way to return from.....

Yeah that's why everyone who has ever done it has died. Criminalizatiton of drugs does very little positive. If crystal meth was legally available and you knew exactly what was in it far fewer people would die from the violence uncertainty and lack of quality control associated with criminal enterprises.

Okay this is a bit hyperbolic. People who try meth don't instantly die. But people who get hooked on it build a tolerance to it, and need to keep increasing their dosage which makes overdoses much more likely.

[Rojava Free State]

Why is it morally wrong to try and save someone? If we talk even one person off of a ledge, I think we've done the greatest good.

Because in doing so you are undermining his agency and control over the most basic of human rights, that being the right to live. If you deny someone the right to chose his own death than you are denying him the right to chose his own life as well. So whilst it is good to save people who are sick or get into an accident or are attacked it is not good to "save" those who deliberately seek death out. Because life or death is their choice to make. And no matter how we feel about that choice we must allow them to make it.

Most drug addicts are not choosing to die, and I'm not saying we should kidnap them and make them stop, but I think I am very much in the right to tell a friend of mine "you have a problem. You need to stop." If they listen to my advice, that's one less victim of the heroin crisis.