Catholic church on birth control; cause for abandoning it?

[Dylar]

Woah, let's not do anything too drastic now.

>guns kill 40,000 people a year
"woah, wtf, we have to stop this"
>alcohol kills 90,000 a year
>cigarettes kill 400,000 a year
"well you can't make that choice for other people"

Except that I support the continued legalization of all three

[The South Falls]

Again, I return to the hospital example.

*some dude calls 911*

Dude: I'm having a heart attack, send an ambulance

911: lol, well you shouldn't have eaten all them cheeseburgers back in the day, then your arteries wouldn't have been so clogged

Accountability in that case just means that you're paying for your medical bills, unless you bought insurance, in which case you're paying for part your your medical bills.

The state is there so someone doesn't have to be accountable for their own actions. Just like the police force. Say that someone cohabits with a boy/girlfriend that later turns out to be abusive. The police force, an arm of the state, is there to protect you from him/her. Normally, you'd be "accountable for your actions", in that you decided to live with them. However, the state prevents such from happening. Just like with condoms.

[United Muscovite Nations]

>guns kill 40,000 people a year
"woah, wtf, we have to stop this"
>alcohol kills 90,000 a year
>cigarettes kill 400,000 a year
"well you can't make that choice for other people"

Prohibition was already once tried in the US. With known results.

The government was just too much of a pussy to crack down.

[Genivaria]

Again, I return to the hospital example.

*some dude calls 911*

Dude: I'm having a heart attack, send an ambulance

911: lol, well you shouldn't have eaten all them cheeseburgers back in the day, then your arteries wouldn't have been so clogged

This scenario would be more like the state not providing cheeseburgers, and then people complaining that they should have cheeseburgers because they’re enjoyable.

Catholic clinics do treat people with stds. They just say you shouldn’t be doing the thing that leads to stds in the first place.

Yes people sometimes make poor choices, I don't think they should necessarily be doomed for them.

Sometimes people get distracted while they're driving and drive into a tree, luckily they had car insurance.

[United Muscovite Nations]

Accountability in that case just means that you're paying for your medical bills, unless you bought insurance, in which case you're paying for part your your medical bills.

The state is there so someone doesn't have to be accountable for their own actions. Just like the police force. Say that someone cohabits with a boy/girlfriend that later turns out to be abusive. The police force, an arm of the state, is there to protect you from him/her. Normally, you'd be "accountable for your actions", in that you decided to live with them. However, the state prevents such from happening. Just like with condoms.

No it isn't, the state is there to protect people from violence.

[Genivaria]

Prohibition was already once tried in the US. With known results.

The government was just too much of a pussy to crack down.

Wow, the Mafia would love you.

[Salus Maior]

Prohibition was already once tried in the US. With known results.

The government was just too much of a pussy to crack down.

Also most of them were also drinkers.

[The New California Republic]

They in all likelihood don't even know that themselves. Many such diseases are asymptomatic or have symptoms so mild that it is difficult for the person to recognise it as a disease.

If they know they're at risk (i.e. they have sex), they should get tested.

Not guaranteed either. Tests done shortly after STD infection, up to several weeks after infection, come back negative. For example when I had a HIV test I was warned that it could be a false negative if exposure was within the last few weeks.

[Nakena]

Prohibition was already once tried in the US. With known results.

The government was just too much of a pussy to crack down.

Like with the War on Drugs ever since Nixon, too?

[The Black Forrest]

They know the potential consequences. If you don't know whether your partner has an STD, then you don't know your partner well enough to be having sex with them.

They in all likelihood don't even know that themselves. Many such diseases are asymptomatic or have symptoms so mild that it is difficult for the person to recognise it as a disease.

One set of twins is also a problem. Interesting finding. However, It would have to be reproduced a few more times.

[United Muscovite Nations]

The government was just too much of a pussy to crack down.

Wow, the Mafia would love you.

The mob gets the firing squad.

[Risottia]

Woah, let's not do anything too drastic now.

>guns kill 40,000 people a year
"woah, wtf, we have to stop this"
>alcohol kills 90,000 a year
>cigarettes kill 400,000 a year
"well you can't make that choice for other people"

Because of course there's no difference between choosing to drink/inhale dangerous substances and choosing to inject lead at high speed into someone else.

[Antityranicals]

Accountability in that case just means that you're paying for your medical bills, unless you bought insurance, in which case you're paying for part your your medical bills.

The state is there so someone doesn't have to be accountable for their own actions. Just like the police force. Say that someone cohabits with a boy/girlfriend that later turns out to be abusive. The police force, an arm of the state, is there to protect you from him/her. Normally, you'd be "accountable for your actions", in that you decided to live with them. However, the state prevents such from happening. Just like with condoms.

And there's no real reason why that same job cannot be done by private protection agencies, for a small cost.

[United Muscovite Nations]

If they know they're at risk (i.e. they have sex), they should get tested.

Not guaranteed either. Tests done shortly after STD infection, up to several weeks after infection, come back negative. For example when I had a HIV test I was warned that it could be a false negative if exposure was within the last few weeks.

Fair, but that's all the more reason for multiple tests to be covered.

[Salus Maior]

Are you sure that's the road you want to go down friend?

If you perform an action, the consequences are on you. It is a self-inflicted problem. If you have consensual sex, the consequences of the sex are self-inflicted. Only if you were raped should the consequences of that be covered by state funds, because in that you had no choice.

The perpetrator should foot all the bills for the victim tbh. Unless they can’t.

[The Black Forrest]

The government was just too much of a pussy to crack down.

Like with the War on Drugs ever since Nixon, too?

Well? Nixon did decimate the pot trade as many claimed it was the gateway drug. The problem? Heroin and cocaine started to get cheap.

[United Muscovite Nations]

>guns kill 40,000 people a year
"woah, wtf, we have to stop this"
>alcohol kills 90,000 a year
>cigarettes kill 400,000 a year
"well you can't make that choice for other people"

Because of course there's no difference between choosing to drink/inhale dangerous substances and choosing to inject lead at high speed into someone else.

Most of those gun deaths are suicides and many of those drinking deaths are manslaughter. Moreover, alcohol was directly involved in many of those shooting deaths.

[United Muscovite Nations]

If you perform an action, the consequences are on you. It is a self-inflicted problem. If you have consensual sex, the consequences of the sex are self-inflicted. Only if you were raped should the consequences of that be covered by state funds, because in that you had no choice.

The perpetrator should foot all the bills for the victim tbh. Unless they can’t.

The perpetrator should have all assets seized and put in a labor camp.

[The South Falls]

We can't predict sex would lead to trauma, however. We don't think that gun is going to go off in our faces. You don't expect the worst, otherwise you wouldn't do it.

Sure, a gun probably won’t go off in your face. But you still shouldn’t be looking down the barrel either.

You probably shouldn't, but the state is there when you do.

Again, I return to the hospital example.

*some dude calls 911*

Dude: I'm having a heart attack, send an ambulance

911: lol, well you shouldn't have eaten all them cheeseburgers back in the day, then your arteries wouldn't have been so clogged

This scenario would be more like the state not providing cheeseburgers, and then people complaining that they should have cheeseburgers because they’re enjoyable.

Catholic clinics do treat people with stds. They just say you shouldn’t be doing the thing that leads to stds in the first place.

I was taking this from the angle that the state should provide condoms because we can't account for people not heeding the church's advice. One little word of advice from the church ain't gon stop most people

[Genivaria]

Are you sure that's the road you want to go down friend?

If you perform an action, the consequences are on you. It is a self-inflicted problem. If you have consensual sex, the consequences of the sex are self-inflicted. Only if you were raped should the consequences of that be covered by state funds, because in that you had no choice.

So you also support the abolishment of all forms of insurance right?

[Antityranicals]

The perpetrator should foot all the bills for the victim tbh. Unless they can’t.

The perpetrator should have all assets seized and put in a labor camp.

Wouldn't you say that depends on the crime? I don't think that would be quite justified for a traffic ticket...

[United Muscovite Nations]

If you perform an action, the consequences are on you. It is a self-inflicted problem. If you have consensual sex, the consequences of the sex are self-inflicted. Only if you were raped should the consequences of that be covered by state funds, because in that you had no choice.

So you also support the abolishment of all forms of insurance right?

No, but they should pay for their own insurance if they want that covered.

[United Muscovite Nations]

The perpetrator should have all assets seized and put in a labor camp.

Wouldn't you say that depends on the crime? I don't think that would be quite justified for a traffic ticket...

We were talking about rape.

[Antityranicals]

Wouldn't you say that depends on the crime? I don't think that would be quite justified for a traffic ticket...

We were talking about rape.

Ah. There, I largely agree. But the assets and proceeds of labor should be given to the victim, not to the state.

[Genivaria]

Wouldn't you say that depends on the crime? I don't think that would be quite justified for a traffic ticket...

We were talking about rape.

No we were talking about sex in general actually, rape was just one situation.