Catholic church on birth control; cause for abandoning it?

[Joohan]

No, but the Christian churches of the world are helping with:

Education, Healthcare, Food relief, housing relief, orphanages, rehab centers, infrastructure, telecommunications, etc.

Literally, the church is the only source of public welfare in numerous parts of the world. You mean to honestly tell me that the Church is the problem, when it is quite literally often the only ones who are helping?

They may help but it doesn't mean they dont do their fair share of harm. Remember, the nazis pushed an anti smoking campaign and supported workers. Doesn't mean they didnt do their fair share of evil. Mao Zedong supported women's rights. He also was a murderer. Donald Trump has a great sense of humor. He also starts fights with everyone and then complains when no one likes him. Mark Hackle was a very transparent and honest sheriff in my county. His dare program still was a failure. People can do both good and bad things.

Yes, because clearly the Church is in the same ball park as Hitler and Mao

I acknowledge that the Church makes mistakes all the time. The church is made up of men, and men are fallible; but it's opposition to contraception isn't one of those mistakes. The church has, and still does, support a more educated, more self controlled, and more pious world. Contraception isn't necessary when a person is responsible, educated, and mindful of themselves. The Church actively has been supporting education, welfare, and family functions for literally centuries. If people only acted more inline with dogma, then we would be living in an objectivly better world.

[LimaUniformNovemberAlpha]

Sexually frustrated virgins are dumb too. Like how the fuck is sexual frustration real lmao what are you, an elephant?

I'm too terrified of child support bills to pursue dating, but I imagine it would be frustrating to think you're giving women everything they want and it still doesn't work.

[Nakena]

Idk about everyone else here, but my issue with your ideas is that you wanna tell me what to do with myself. I could care less if you wanna have sex or not.

I've had plenty of people tell me I should just be raped if I don't want to have sex.

Many mental health professionals still see asexuals as mentally ill, and so does most of society .There's a huge stigma, worse than the stigma for any other sexual minority.

Since when you're asexual?

[Ayytaly]

Sexually frustrated virgins are dumb too. Like how the fuck is sexual frustration real lmao what are you, an elephant?

I'm too terrified of child support bills to pursue dating, but I imagine it would be frustrating to think you're giving women everything they want and it still doesn't work.

Women of today is like that sentient terrain you want to plant your seed in: It feels offended if the farmer asks if she has had other farmers before him, and will spit out your seeds if the weather isn't to her liking and demands you to change it even though it's out of your comtrol. Oh, and she'll never tell you whether or not she has traces of DDT and other chemicals in her soil.

E-I-E-I-O.

[United Muscovite Nations]

I've had plenty of people tell me I should just be raped if I don't want to have sex.

Many mental health professionals still see asexuals as mentally ill, and so does most of society .There's a huge stigma, worse than the stigma for any other sexual minority.

Since when you're asexual?

I've always been, but I began to realize it was the case around November of last year after a few conversations with friends and a brief relationship.

[LimaUniformNovemberAlpha]

I'm too terrified of child support bills to pursue dating, but I imagine it would be frustrating to think you're giving women everything they want and it still doesn't work.

Women of today is like that sentient terrain you want to plant your seed in: It feels offended if the farmer asks if she has had other farmers before him

"Offended?" Seriously? I thought they just thought of such guys as pathetic...

[The New California Republic]

I'm too terrified of child support bills to pursue dating, but I imagine it would be frustrating to think you're giving women everything they want and it still doesn't work.

Women of today is like that sentient terrain you want to plant your seed in: It feels offended if the farmer asks if she has had other farmers before him, and will spit out your seeds if the weather isn't to her liking and demands you to change it even though it's out of your comtrol. Oh, and she'll never tell you whether or not she has traces of DDT and other chemicals in her soil.

E-I-E-I-O.

...comparing women to literal dirt.

[LimaUniformNovemberAlpha]

Women of today is like that sentient terrain you want to plant your seed in: It feels offended if the farmer asks if she has had other farmers before him, and will spit out your seeds if the weather isn't to her liking and demands you to change it even though it's out of your comtrol. Oh, and she'll never tell you whether or not she has traces of DDT and other chemicals in her soil.

E-I-E-I-O.

...comparing women to literal dirt.

I don't think he meant to claim they have everything in common... it's like when guys compare their girlfriends to their cats. Claims of similarity in some aspects do not equal claims of similarity in all.

[The New California Republic]

...comparing women to literal dirt.

I don't think he meant to claim they have everything in common... it's like when guys compare their girlfriends to their cats. Claims of similarity in some aspects do not equal claims of similarity in all.

Making the comparison at all is just fucked up.

[United Muscovite Nations]

I'm too terrified of child support bills to pursue dating, but I imagine it would be frustrating to think you're giving women everything they want and it still doesn't work.

Women of today is like that sentient terrain you want to plant your seed in: It feels offended if the farmer asks if she has had other farmers before him, and will spit out your seeds if the weather isn't to her liking and demands you to change it even though it's out of your comtrol. Oh, and she'll never tell you whether or not she has traces of DDT and other chemicals in her soil.

E-I-E-I-O.

As if men aren't worse about this.

[The Greater Ohio Valley]

Then people should stop being horny.

That would require that humans being to cease being human beings and instead become lifeless robots who solely exist to please a deity who may or may not exist.

[United Muscovite Nations]

Then people should stop being horny.

That would require that humans being to cease being human beings and instead become lifeless robots who solely exist to please a deity who may or may not exist.

Thank you for proving my point that asexuals are routinely dehumanized.

[The Greater Ohio Valley]

That would require that humans being to cease being human beings and instead become lifeless robots who solely exist to please a deity who may or may not exist.

Thank you for proving my point that asexuals are routinely dehumanized.

I dehumanized no one. You’re the one who said people should stop being horny.

[Nakena]

Then people should stop being horny.

That would require that humans being to cease being human beings and instead become lifeless robots who solely exist to please a deity who may or may not exist.

Thats horrific. Basically like Libria on Prozium II.

[Hanafuridake]

Yeah, a bunch of volcels in ivory towers aren't the best place to get your opinions on birth control from.

Other organizations need to play a more active role in social work in poorer countries.

[Machine Cultists]

I'm too terrified of child support bills to pursue dating, but I imagine it would be frustrating to think you're giving women everything they want and it still doesn't work.

You know that you can date people without engaging in activities that inherently contain a risk of pregnancy, right? And while it's true that the less-understanding people out there aren't exactly too accommodating of that, it's also true that we're best off not dating the less-understanding people out there.

Anyway I figured I'd join in on the thread. Is the idea that "The Church and I don't agree on something, therefore it's a false religion and I'm better off in another denomination" a sincere position? The Catholic Church's dogma and social teachings are consistent, and if someone believes that the Catholic Church should support birth control then they probably disagree with the biblical teachings on sex outside of marriage too.

[LimaUniformNovemberAlpha]

Is the idea that "The Church and I don't agree on something, therefore it's a false religion and I'm better off in another denomination" a sincere position?

More like "the Catholic church's terrible ideas got many people killed for no good reason, therefore either its claim of speaking for God is false and it is therefore a corrupt, untrustworthy institution, or it worships a terrible God."

[United Muscovite Nations]

Thank you for proving my point that asexuals are routinely dehumanized.

I dehumanized no one. You’re the one who said people should stop being horny.

And then you said that not being horny requires you to be a lifeless robot. That's dehumanizing people who aren't horny lmao.

[Hanafuridake]

Nonsense. We live in the real world. In the real world, people are horny. If the Catholic church ignores this and still spreads their terrible ideas that get people killed, they bear a share of culpability.

If your theory doesn't work in practice, it's a terrible theory.

Then people should stop being horny. It's not the Catholic Church's responsibility to pay for people to have sex without consequences.

For many married couples in Third World countries, "sex without consequences" means being able to feed the kids they already have and make sure their spouse doesn't catch a STD.

[The Republic of Fore]

Here's the thing you seem to be forgetting. It's not any individual Catholic's problem if third world countries are suffering. Isn't hypocritical for you to gripe and them when you're sitting here doing exactly nothing to help people in third world countries? Paying lip service and pointing about that problems exist doesn't fix anything. Ask the families of women who've had the breasts cut off by the LRA how much kony 2012 did for them.

[Hanafuridake]

Here's the thing you seem to be forgetting. It's not any individual Catholic's problem if third world countries are suffering. Isn't hypocritical for you to gripe and them when you're sitting here doing exactly nothing to help people in third world countries? Paying lip service and pointing about that problems exist doesn't fix anything. Ask the families of women who've had the breasts cut off by the LRA how much kony 2012 did for them.

This thread is specifically about the Catholic Church's (not individual Catholics) policies on birth control which contributes to poverty and disease in poorer countries.

That seems like it would be obvious if you read the thread.

[Galloism]

You know, we're really getting off topic here... myself included.

The question more central to this thread; is it hypocritical, on the part of any individual Catholic, to both use birth control and continue to partake in a religious institution notorious for denying it to third worlders with more need for it?

I'd say yes (but I have a dim view of catholicism), but can you expand on the "denying it to third worlders"? Do they influence laws to ban them or what's their method of denial?

I’d still like an answer to this LUNA.

[Hakons]

I see NSG needed its monthly dose of rabid, drooling anticatholic bigotry

[The Alma Mater]

They may help but it doesn't mean they dont do their fair share of harm. Remember, the nazis pushed an anti smoking campaign and supported workers. Doesn't mean they didnt do their fair share of evil. Mao Zedong supported women's rights. He also was a murderer. Donald Trump has a great sense of humor. He also starts fights with everyone and then complains when no one likes him. Mark Hackle was a very transparent and honest sheriff in my county. His dare program still was a failure. People can do both good and bad things.

Yes, because clearly the Church is in the same ball park as Hitler and Mao

I acknowledge that the Church makes mistakes all the time. The church is made up of men, and men are fallible; but it's opposition to contraception isn't one of those mistakes. The church has, and still does, support a more educated, more self controlled, and more pious world. Contraception isn't necessary when a person is responsible, educated, and mindful of themselves. The Church actively has been supporting education, welfare, and family functions for literally centuries. If people only acted more inline with dogma, then we would be living in an objectivly better world.

But the reality is that people do not behave that way. And that the Church knows that.

So, while nobody will deny the Church does good things - it also does harm. Knowingly. Purposefully.
The questions are:
1. Does it do more good than harm ?
2. If the answer to 1 is yes - does it matter ? Can you balance out bad with good like a scale ? Does that mean we should not punish people for crimes if they are pillars of the community as well ?
3. If ones intentions are pure, but the outcome of ones actions is bad - is it wrong to continue said actions ?

[United Massachusetts]

And in comes the crew of anti-Catholics. Such is the nature of this whole thread, I imagine. I've constructed a fun dialogue:

Person 1: I think individual Catholics aren't bad, but the Church holds awful and terrible opinions that are flagrantly immoral. I'm not anti-Catholic, though or anything?
Person 2: So, a faithful Catholic, who holds to their churches position, holds "awful and terrible opinions that are flagrantly immoral?"
Person 1: Yes, but one can be Catholic and not agree with their church's position.
Person 2: Sure, I guess. So, you're cool with Catholics, unless they actually listen to what their Church says?
Person 1: Just on birth control. And abortion. And sex. And women priests. And celibacy. And [insert pet cause here]. See, I don't hate religion or religious people; I just hate organised religion.
Person 2: OK. So, isn't Catholicism an organised religion?
Person 1: Yes, I suppose.
Person 2: Ah, so if (a) you hate organised religion, and (b) Catholicism is an organised religion, then it follows that you hate Catholicism. You also think that faithful Catholics who listen to what their Church teaches hold "awful and terrible positions that are flagrantly immoral." Why didn't you say you were anti-Catholic from the beginning?
Person 1: I'm not anti-Catholic -- I have Catholic friends!

To clarify, there's certainly room for criticising the Catholic Church. But I think a lot of commentary treads across a line into some sketchy anti-Catholic rhetoric.