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If you had to live in Franco's Spain or Eastern Europe...

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Ethel mermania
Post Overlord
 
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Founded: Aug 20, 2010
Father Knows Best State

Postby Ethel mermania » Tue Mar 03, 2020 7:59 am

Krasny-Volny wrote:
The New California Republic wrote:Wrong. Outside the USSR it was actually the GDR that was most prosperous.


East Germany was much more industrialized and had a far stronger economy than Yugoslavia.

But people in Yugoslavia could buy stereos, Nikes, blue jeans, and Pink Floyd.

And has beautiful beaches.
https://www.hvst.com/posts/the-clash-of ... s-wl2TQBpY

The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion … but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.
--S. Huntington

The most fundamental problem of politics is not the control of wickedness but the limitation of righteousness. 

--H. Kissenger

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Greed and Death
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Ex-Nation

Postby Greed and Death » Tue Mar 03, 2020 8:50 am

Franco's Spain. I can leave if it gets bad which means it was at least decently ran from an economy point of view.
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The New California Republic
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Tue Mar 03, 2020 8:56 am

Ethel mermania wrote:
Krasny-Volny wrote:
East Germany was much more industrialized and had a far stronger economy than Yugoslavia.

But people in Yugoslavia could buy stereos, Nikes, blue jeans, and Pink Floyd.

And has beautiful beaches.

Berlin has beaches too.
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Tsarus
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Tsarus » Tue Mar 03, 2020 8:57 am

Franco's Spain, simply because I agree with him far more than I do communism.
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Kaltovar
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Founded: Jun 26, 2019
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kaltovar » Tue Mar 03, 2020 9:00 am

I'd choose Eastern Europe, because there was an act by the US Congress allowing anyone who escaped it to join the US Army and then become a US Citizen after 5 years of service. I'd slowly build up my rations and take them in a sack down to the Greek boarder then walk into a US Embassy and ask for asylum. I'd end up with a steady job, an education, and ultimately a pension because I would stay in the Army.
Last edited by Kaltovar on Tue Mar 03, 2020 9:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Thermodolia
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Thermodolia » Tue Mar 03, 2020 9:02 am

The New California Republic wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:And has beautiful beaches.

Berlin has beaches too.

But Yugoslavia is better
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Ethel mermania
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Founded: Aug 20, 2010
Father Knows Best State

Postby Ethel mermania » Tue Mar 03, 2020 9:35 am

The New California Republic wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:And has beautiful beaches.

Berlin has beaches too.

Not on the adriatic.... anymore.
https://www.hvst.com/posts/the-clash-of ... s-wl2TQBpY

The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion … but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.
--S. Huntington

The most fundamental problem of politics is not the control of wickedness but the limitation of righteousness. 

--H. Kissenger

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Rojava Free State
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Ex-Nation

Postby Rojava Free State » Tue Mar 03, 2020 12:13 pm

The New California Republic wrote:
Ethel mermania wrote:And has beautiful beaches.

Berlin has beaches too.


Yugoslavia has beautiful Albanian beaches, and not the kind you go swimming on.
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Thermodolia
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Thermodolia » Tue Mar 03, 2020 12:17 pm

Rojava Free State wrote:
The New California Republic wrote:Berlin has beaches too.


Yugoslavia has beautiful Albanian beaches, and not the kind you go swimming on.

Albania isn’t Yugoslavia. Those are two very different nations
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Portals
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Founded: Oct 03, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Portals » Tue Mar 03, 2020 12:20 pm

I would live in Franco's Spain because I feel like he wouldn't have as tight a grip as the Soviets

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Thermodolia
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Thermodolia » Tue Mar 03, 2020 12:25 pm

Portals wrote:I would live in Franco's Spain because I feel like he wouldn't have as tight a grip as the Soviets

Soviets =/= Eastern Europe. Technically Yugoslavia, Albania, and Greece are all Eastern European
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I'm agent #69 in the Gaystapo!
>The Sons of Adam: I'd crown myself monarch... cuz why not?
>>Dumb Ideologies: Why not turn yourself into a penguin and build an igloo at the centre of the Earth?
Click for Da Funies

RIP Dya

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The Archregimancy
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Founded: Aug 01, 2005
Democratic Socialists

Postby The Archregimancy » Tue Mar 03, 2020 12:31 pm

I currently live in al-Sisi's Egypt.

I'm not sure that's too different from either of the scenarios in the OP, except we have better ruins.

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Vivolkha
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Founded: Oct 15, 2017
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Vivolkha » Tue Mar 03, 2020 12:35 pm

Some of my relatives fled Francoist Spain for South America in the 1950s.

Honestly, both are horrible, horrible places to be in. By the 1950s Spain was nearing an economic boom, whereas the USSR was through its best years and heading towards slow stagnation beginning in the late 1960s. But then again I would probably be safer from persecution and closer to the regime in a communist than in a fascist state, and by the 1950s the Eastern Bloc was past its harshest (politically) years.

Also, keep in mind that in both Spain and the Eastern Bloc (East Germany aside, kind of) you needed an exit permit to get out of the country. It was usually denied outright and tied to political criteria in the Eastern Bloc, whereas Spain had quotas for emigrating workers (and it was tied to political criteria as well).
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Czechoslovakia and Zakarpatia
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Founded: Aug 13, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Czechoslovakia and Zakarpatia » Tue Mar 03, 2020 12:52 pm

Krasny-Volny wrote:
Czechoslovakia and Zakarpatia wrote:This. But many here choose Spain simply because of a knee-jerk reaction against the Soviet Union.


Or because in Spain they could actually leave.

You could leave the east through Yugoslavia, or through East Berlin before they actually start building the wall. Historical resources on the subject covered this. And Franco's Spain is just as repressive as the USSR in 1957, so there is no tangible difference to you as a citizen if you lived in there.

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Czechoslovakia and Zakarpatia
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Ex-Nation

Postby Czechoslovakia and Zakarpatia » Tue Mar 03, 2020 12:54 pm

Rojava Free State wrote:
The New California Republic wrote:Berlin has beaches too.


Yugoslavia has beautiful Albanian beaches, and not the kind you go swimming on.

Albania was unfortunately not part of Yugoslavia, as Bunker Enver firmly refused nearly all contact with the outside world asides from Mao's China.

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Ethel mermania
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Founded: Aug 20, 2010
Father Knows Best State

Postby Ethel mermania » Tue Mar 03, 2020 3:08 pm

The Archregimancy wrote:I currently live in al-Sisi's Egypt.

I'm not sure that's too different from either of the scenarios in the OP, except we have better ruins.

How are the beaches?
https://www.hvst.com/posts/the-clash-of ... s-wl2TQBpY

The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion … but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.
--S. Huntington

The most fundamental problem of politics is not the control of wickedness but the limitation of righteousness. 

--H. Kissenger

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Sundiata
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Founded: Sep 27, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Sundiata » Tue Mar 03, 2020 3:14 pm

Spain, not much would change pertaining to how I live my life and express my faith.
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Mirial Magna
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Founded: Feb 20, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Mirial Magna » Tue Mar 03, 2020 3:16 pm

Sundiata wrote:Spain, not much would change pertaining to how I live my life and express my faith.

Assuming you're an American who doesn't already know Spanish, all you'd have to do is brush up on the language and you'd be good to go.

I said this before, but things would be a bit difficult for me as a Calvinist.
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Nanatsu no Tsuki
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Nanatsu no Tsuki » Tue Mar 03, 2020 3:16 pm

Sundiata wrote:Spain, not much would change pertaining to how I live my life and express my faith.


Oh boy, I’m going to laugh at the bold. :lol2:

Catholic grandparents. Very devout. Still had to leave Francoist Spain.
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Mirial Magna
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Founded: Feb 20, 2020
Ex-Nation

Postby Mirial Magna » Tue Mar 03, 2020 3:18 pm

Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
Sundiata wrote:Spain, not much would change pertaining to how I live my life and express my faith.


Oh boy, I’m going to laugh at the bold. :lol2:

Catholic grandparents. Very devout. Still had to leave Francoist Spain.

What'd they do?
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We do not use NS stats, but we do use the outcome of events.
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Nanatsu no Tsuki
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Founded: Feb 10, 2008
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Nanatsu no Tsuki » Tue Mar 03, 2020 3:18 pm

Mirial Magna wrote:
Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
Oh boy, I’m going to laugh at the bold. :lol2:

Catholic grandparents. Very devout. Still had to leave Francoist Spain.

What'd they do?


Mainly being Catalonian.
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Bear Stearns
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Founded: Dec 02, 2018
Capitalizt

Postby Bear Stearns » Tue Mar 03, 2020 3:19 pm

By the 1950s, Spain was basically a wealthier version of some Latin American dictatorship. Not that bad if a place if you were an American businessman.
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Rio Cana
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Founded: Dec 21, 2005
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Rio Cana » Tue Mar 03, 2020 4:53 pm

Regna Loreau wrote:Spain. I could live with the religious aspect if I had to, and besides. I can leave. Also, I rather do like a decent working wage as opposed to being funnelled into the Red Army, Navy or Airforce. Or y'know, dying from a disease after the vaccination was filled with water or saline.


Spain had compulsory military service which lasted 230 years. It was officially ended on 2002. They had to serve for nine months.
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Tokora
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Tokora » Tue Mar 03, 2020 5:01 pm

Czechoslovakia and Zakarpatia wrote:If you simply want to leave ASAP, Yugoslavia is also a good choice, because, like I said, their border security with the west was quite weak, and it was the reason many refugees fleeing from the East passed through Yugoslavia to either Italy or Austria, as Tito didn't really bother maintaining a air-tight barrier after he broke up with Stalin and the USSR in the late 1940s. Yugoslavia was effectively a secret passage and a hole through the Iron Curtain.

If Yugoslavia was an option I'd choose it in a heartbeat, but didn't the op cleary state Eastern Europe while Yugoslavia is Southern Europe?
Last edited by Tokora on Tue Mar 03, 2020 5:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Rio Cana
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Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Rio Cana » Tue Mar 03, 2020 5:02 pm

Remember, during Franco times Spain had Spanish Sahara, Equatorial Guinea plus the two major enclaves that border Morocco.
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