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If you had to live in Franco's Spain or Eastern Europe...

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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The New California Republic
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Mon Mar 02, 2020 4:47 pm

Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:
The New California Republic wrote:Keep in mind this is 1957, the Wall isn't up yet, so folk in East Germany could still cross back and forth between East and West fairly easily. Defecting would be a piece of cake.


The wall wasn't up, no. The armed guards and barbed wire fences, however...

In Berlin in 1957 you could cross between East and West freely. You could still do it even into 1961.
Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.

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Vegaslovakia
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Vegaslovakia » Mon Mar 02, 2020 4:55 pm

Eastern Europe because I think I'd get killed in Fascist Spain for being a Communist.
As for the specific country, I really don't know, but probably Czechoslovakia.
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Tokora
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Tokora » Mon Mar 02, 2020 4:58 pm

The USSR specifically because while Khrushchev's rule was actually pretty liberal, the rest of the bloc were the remnants of stalinism and indistinguishable from fascism. So Eastern Europe only because Khrushchev exists.

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Nakena
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Ex-Nation

Postby Nakena » Mon Mar 02, 2020 4:59 pm

Wasnt Franco's Spain also a ruthless dictator of one of the major pacific regions?

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The Greater Ohio Valley
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The Greater Ohio Valley » Mon Mar 02, 2020 5:07 pm

Neither cuz I’d probably not survive long in either of them.
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Leninist Haven
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Postby Leninist Haven » Mon Mar 02, 2020 5:09 pm

Infernal Imperium wrote:You can leave Spain, so....
But I'd consider East Germany. (edit: or probably yugoslavia)
https://www.radio.cz/en/section/special ... ism-part-1

I'm gay and East Germany stopped punishing it in the late 1950's if they count.
"Gay social clubs and groups were allowed to organize themselves freely, so long as they made tenuous links with Protestant Churches... outlaw discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation, but otherwise ignoring that LGBT relationships existed."

Hungary decriminalized in 1961 and Czech Republic in 1962, but I have less information on them. The interview with a Czech person suggests Germany to be better.
It was apparently always legal in Poland but then they later did Operation Hyacinth.
Bulgaria made a show of "western decadence" and then decriminalized in the later 1960's. I'd probably skip them.

Same answer and for the same reason. Also to help them in every way possible.
Last edited by Leninist Haven on Mon Mar 02, 2020 5:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Albrenia
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Ex-Nation

Postby Albrenia » Mon Mar 02, 2020 5:11 pm

I'd be dead in either.

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Bear Stearns
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Capitalizt

Postby Bear Stearns » Mon Mar 02, 2020 5:11 pm

Saiwania wrote:Even better if you're a Communist official but in private- don't really believe in it but pull strings to get luxuries/favors and etc.


You just described all communist officials.
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Bear Stearns
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Postby Bear Stearns » Mon Mar 02, 2020 5:12 pm

Vegaslovakia wrote:Eastern Europe because I think I'd get killed in Fascist Spain for being a Communist.
As for the specific country, I really don't know, but probably Czechoslovakia.


The USSR killed scores of communists for being the wrong type of communist. Better hope ya don't get icepicked.
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Nakena
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Ex-Nation

Postby Nakena » Mon Mar 02, 2020 5:17 pm

Bear Stearns wrote:
Saiwania wrote:Even better if you're a Communist official but in private- don't really believe in it but pull strings to get luxuries/favors and etc.


You just described all communist officials.


Thats not the case. I used to think somewhat the same, but upon further research into the matter i've found out that - for example in the GDR - there was an huge amount of true believers present and that they had various quite nifty mechanisms to ensure true believers would rise preferably in rank and position.

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Xarbhathatith
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Ex-Nation

Postby Xarbhathatith » Mon Mar 02, 2020 5:23 pm

Eastern Europe in the farther reaches of Siberia, specifically Yakutia. I have some Sakha ancestry, and hey, who doesn't want subzero autumnal temperatures and a semi-nomadic lifestyle discouraged and probably illegalized by USSR authorities?
Last edited by Xarbhathatith on Mon Mar 02, 2020 5:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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The New California Republic
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Mon Mar 02, 2020 5:24 pm

Nakena wrote:
Bear Stearns wrote:You just described all communist officials.


Thats not the case. I used to think somewhat the same, but upon further research into the matter i've found out that - for example in the GDR - there was an huge amount of true believers present and that they had various quite nifty mechanisms to ensure true believers would rise preferably in rank and position.

While I have no doubt that some Party members engaged in things like Beziehungen, Bückware, Schmiergeld and Trinkgeld, there is ample evidence to show that it was the exception rather than the rule, as it would have destabilised the entire planned economy if it had been the rule.
Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.

The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the total victory over Caesar's Legion, and the annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas.

White-collared conservatives flashing down the street
Pointing their plastic finger at me
They're hoping soon, my kind will drop and die
But I'm going to wave my freak flag high
Wave on, wave on
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

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Rojava Free State
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Ex-Nation

Postby Rojava Free State » Mon Mar 02, 2020 6:00 pm

Spain. Eastern Europe is basically a conglomerate of third world countries.

I would prefer not to live in either though.
Last edited by Rojava Free State on Mon Mar 02, 2020 6:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Rojava Free State
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Postby Rojava Free State » Mon Mar 02, 2020 6:02 pm

Saiwania wrote:Eastern Europe because back then, you could have a big White family there at that point in time. You're largely unaware of anything the capitalist West has to offer anyways. Even better if you're a Communist official but in private- don't really believe in it but pull strings to get luxuries/favors and etc.


You had to have a big white family because famines and tuberculosis killed most of them, and Stalin killed the rest.
Rojava Free State wrote:Listen yall. I'm only gonna say it once but I want you to remember it. This ain't a world fit for good men. It seems like you gotta be monstrous just to make it. Gotta have a little bit of darkness within you just to survive. You gotta stoop low everyday it seems like. Stoop all the way down to the devil in these times. And then one day you look in the mirror and you realize that you ain't you anymore. You're just another monster, and thanks to your actions, someone else will eventually become as warped and twisted as you. Never forget that the best of us are just the best of a bad lot. Being at the top of a pile of feces doesn't make you anything but shit like the rest. Never forget that.

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Czechoslovakia and Zakarpatia
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Postby Czechoslovakia and Zakarpatia » Mon Mar 02, 2020 8:10 pm

Trollzyn the Infinite wrote:That's an easy one: Spain.

Franco was an evil bastard, but he didn't run his country into the fucking dirt unlike the Warsaw Pact. You could actually live in Spain. Plus, you can easily leave any time you wanted, unlike in the Soviet satellite states.

I mean, you could still go to Yugoslavia, since the OP only said "Eastern Europe", not the Warsaw Pact. Basically any country east of the Iron Curtain counts if you choose Eastern Europe. And Yugoslavia was actually the best place you could live in if you were east of the Iron Curtain during the Cold War, up until the late 1980s and the 1990s, that is. Furthermore, Yugoslavia's borders with the west were enforced quite weakly, allowing you to easily cross into Italy or Austria if you wanted to do that.
Last edited by Czechoslovakia and Zakarpatia on Mon Mar 02, 2020 8:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Major-Tom
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Ex-Nation

Postby Major-Tom » Mon Mar 02, 2020 8:14 pm

Maybe Yugoslavia since it wasn't in total shambles in the 50s, but as others have pointed out, if I choose Spain I'd have the best chance of leaving. This is very much a question of "which turd stinks the least."
Last edited by Major-Tom on Mon Mar 02, 2020 8:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Czechoslovakia and Zakarpatia
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Postby Czechoslovakia and Zakarpatia » Mon Mar 02, 2020 8:18 pm

Major-Tom wrote:Maybe Yugoslavia since it wasn't in total shambles in the 50s, but as others have pointed out, if I choose Spain I'd have the best chance of leaving. This is very much a question of "which turd stinks the least."

If you simply want to leave ASAP, Yugoslavia is also a good choice, because, like I said, their border security with the west was quite weak, and it was the reason many refugees fleeing from the East passed through Yugoslavia to either Italy or Austria, as Tito didn't really bother maintaining a air-tight barrier after he broke up with Stalin and the USSR in the late 1940s. Yugoslavia was effectively a secret passage and a hole through the Iron Curtain.
Last edited by Czechoslovakia and Zakarpatia on Mon Mar 02, 2020 8:20 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Mzeusia
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Ex-Nation

Postby Mzeusia » Mon Mar 02, 2020 8:24 pm

I'd go to Eastern Europe. Specifically the USSR. Then I'd escape to Finland in the boot of a car while Finlandia plays on the radio
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Camelza
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Ex-Nation

Postby Camelza » Mon Mar 02, 2020 8:25 pm

Nothing can beat a balanced Mediterranean climate.

However since I sense this is not the answer requested by the OP and has been also posted before, I shall answer Spain again:
Solely for the reason of not being in the middle of cold war politics and the threat of an invasion and nuclear war by either side. In the end, both options would require you to hide your personal beliefs and conform to the government's whims which I highly disapprove of.

Bonus point for Spain: Considering the corruption and disorganization of the Spanish State, I like to imagine it would be more easy to get away with being yourself than beneath the Iron Curtain.

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Heloin
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Ex-Nation

Postby Heloin » Mon Mar 02, 2020 8:26 pm

Major-Tom wrote:Maybe Yugoslavia since it wasn't in total shambles in the 50s, but as others have pointed out, if I choose Spain I'd have the best chance of leaving. This is very much a question of "which turd stinks the least."

Wait, so is the question Eastern Bloc or Eastern Europe? In either case the answer would be East both it'd have to be a different answer for each. East Germany was a slightly better place to live then post Civil War Spain of the 50's (depending on where you lived in said countries) and Yugoslavia of the 50's was far better then both of them. And it'd still be within the point where any one of them would be relatively easy to leave.
Last edited by Heloin on Mon Mar 02, 2020 8:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Albrenia
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Postby Albrenia » Mon Mar 02, 2020 8:30 pm

Why no poll? I want to vote Hasselhof.

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Czechoslovakia and Zakarpatia
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Postby Czechoslovakia and Zakarpatia » Mon Mar 02, 2020 8:32 pm

Heloin wrote:
Major-Tom wrote:Maybe Yugoslavia since it wasn't in total shambles in the 50s, but as others have pointed out, if I choose Spain I'd have the best chance of leaving. This is very much a question of "which turd stinks the least."

Wait, so is the question Eastern Bloc or Eastern Europe? In either case the answer would be East both it'd have to be a different answer for each. East Germany was a slightly better place to live then post Civil War Spain of the 50's (depending on where you lived in said countries) and Yugoslavia of the 50's was far better then both of them. And it'd still be within the point where any one of them would be relatively easy to leave.

He specifically said its for Eastern Europe in general, AKA any country east of the Iron Curtain.

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Kubra
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Postby Kubra » Mon Mar 02, 2020 8:36 pm

Eastern europe, Moscow or Leningrad. When people talk to dreary Soviet life they don't mean there.
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Repubblica Fascista Sociale Italiana
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Postby Repubblica Fascista Sociale Italiana » Mon Mar 02, 2020 8:40 pm

Spain. Maybe join the Falange, meet the General, or hop across the border and be in Salazarian Portugal
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Heloin
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Postby Heloin » Mon Mar 02, 2020 9:01 pm

Czechoslovakia and Zakarpatia wrote:
Heloin wrote:Wait, so is the question Eastern Bloc or Eastern Europe? In either case the answer would be East both it'd have to be a different answer for each. East Germany was a slightly better place to live then post Civil War Spain of the 50's (depending on where you lived in said countries) and Yugoslavia of the 50's was far better then both of them. And it'd still be within the point where any one of them would be relatively easy to leave.

He specifically said its for Eastern Europe in general, AKA any country east of the Iron Curtain.

Eastern Europe can include Yugoslavia. East of the Iron Curtain would not.

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