What the heck to do about student debt

[Greed and Death]

That's what immigrants are for..

Why are we importing low-skilled labor when we have millions of poor Americans with low skills? Seems like we're fucking them over.

Because 3 Ds are involved.

[Infected Mushroom]

nothing's "free"... you're just shifting the cost of who pays for it

the term "free education" and "free healthcare" are propaganda terms

if you said, "completely tax-funded education" then at least you're still making sense

Free means free at the point of service and people understand that.

i still feel its extremely loaded terminology used to shut down the opposition

"how can anyone oppose FREE healthcare" (for example)... "what you want it to COST something?"

thing is, it's not free... the cost has just been re-arranged; you gonna be paying years and years of taxes for it in the future, likely far more than you'd personally ever use from the system

"shouldn't education be free?"

Thing is... it can't be, unless you're going to convert to a total command economy

why use "free" at all in the discourse when that's not an accurate representation, it wasn't even "free" at the point of entry. You personally don't have to pay for any of it maybe but your parents have been paying into it (the system) for years along with the rest of the taxpayers etc

so at any given point in time, there are services being paid for... always

[Adersfield]

remove student loan interest... raise taxes.. or you know go to the military.. you can get college so much cheaper if you go to military... GI bill

[Ifreann]

They're free at the point of access.

they've been paid (and are being paid for) by another party and in the future, you will also be paying for others

so the whole term "free" is misleading in the extreme

Maybe you don't understand it. Everyone else does.

[Infected Mushroom]

they've been paid (and are being paid for) by another party and in the future, you will also be paying for others

so the whole term "free" is misleading in the extreme

Maybe you don't understand it. Everyone else does.

the system still requires payment, hence its not free

hence the term "free education" is a propaganda term, it's not rooted in facts

at no point is it free, not even at the point of entry

[Ifreann]

Maybe you don't understand it. Everyone else does.

the system still requires payment, hence its not free

hence the term "free education" is a propaganda term, it's not rooted in facts

at no point is it free, not even at the point of entry

You're trying to make it seem like "free education" is a propaganda term to smear the idea by association. Nobody thinks that something described as "free" was not paid for at any point.

[Infected Mushroom]

the system still requires payment, hence its not free

hence the term "free education" is a propaganda term, it's not rooted in facts

at no point is it free, not even at the point of entry

You're trying to make it seem like "free education" is a propaganda term to smear the idea by association. Nobody thinks that something described as "free" was not paid for at any point.

it's called free, so the implication is that there's no need to pay for it

otherwise, it would be a misrepresentation

If I said to you, "hey do you want a free ride to school... and then a few weeks later you have to start paying into this overall pool" then it's not free

you'd tell me... "this is not free, don't say it's free"

[Ifreann]

You're trying to make it seem like "free education" is a propaganda term to smear the idea by association. Nobody thinks that something described as "free" was not paid for at any point.

it's called free, so the implication is that there's no need to pay for it

otherwise, it would be a misrepresentation

And it is free to access. Students don't get a bill.

If I said to you, "hey do you want a free ride to school... and then a few weeks later you have to start paying into this overall pool" then it's not free

you'd tell me... "this is not free, don't say it's free"

That's not the same as something being paid for by the government, because whether one pays taxes has no relation to whether one avails of the education system. Just like everything else that's paid for by the government.

[Infected Mushroom]

it's called free, so the implication is that there's no need to pay for it

otherwise, it would be a misrepresentation

And it is free to access. Students don't get a bill.

If I said to you, "hey do you want a free ride to school... and then a few weeks later you have to start paying into this overall pool" then it's not free

you'd tell me... "this is not free, don't say it's free"

That's not the same as something being paid for by the government, because whether one pays taxes has no relation to whether one avails of the education system. Just like everything else that's paid for by the government.

the government is paid for by the people

so it goes in a circle

[South Ccanda]

My band director told me his brilliant idea to avoid paying his student debt is to never stop going to school. He has racked up 6 digits that will ultimately die with him since student debt doesn't go down to the next of kin. he's going back soon to get his masters.

I'm not saying that this is a good solution, I just think it's kinda funny, kinda sad.

[Stagnant Axon Terminal]

imo there should be no private colleges period uwu

all public

all paid for through taxes

abolish debt

[South Ccanda]

imo there should be no private colleges period uwu

all public

all paid for through taxes

abolish debt

I dunno about that. Private college is like buying a yeti cooler even though the store is handing out free Ozark Trail coolers. If you want to pay more for a brand name, go for it. it's America. Have fun.

[Ifreann]

And it is free to access. Students don't get a bill.


That's not the same as something being paid for by the government, because whether one pays taxes has no relation to whether one avails of the education system. Just like everything else that's paid for by the government.

the government is paid for by the people

so it goes in a circle

As I said, whether one pays taxes has no relation to whether one avails of the education system. Just like everything else that's paid for by the government. You can go to school whether you pay taxes or not. You pay taxes(or don't) whether you go to school or not.

And you aren't even arguing against making higher education available to everyone, you're just trying to make it seem bad by calling the term "free education" propaganda.

---

My band director told me his brilliant idea to avoid paying his student debt is to never stop going to school. He has racked up 6 digits that will ultimately die with him since student debt doesn't go down to the next of kin. he's going back soon to get his masters.

I'm not saying that this is a good solution, I just think it's kinda funny, kinda sad.

More power to him.

[Stagnant Axon Terminal]

imo there should be no private colleges period uwu

all public

all paid for through taxes

abolish debt

I dunno about that. Private college is like buying a yeti cooler even though the store is handing out free Ozark Trail coolers. If you want to pay more for a brand name, go for it. it's America. Have fun.

A yeti cooler and an education are not the same thing. You should not be able to buy your way into a better resume.

[Ethel mermania]

I dunno about that. Private college is like buying a yeti cooler even though the store is handing out free Ozark Trail coolers. If you want to pay more for a brand name, go for it. it's America. Have fun.

A yeti cooler and an education are not the same thing. You should not be able to buy your way into a better resume.

Sure you should, if one wants to pay for more education, extra tutoring, more books to put themselves in a better position to succeed, it should be encouraged

[Stagnant Axon Terminal]

A yeti cooler and an education are not the same thing. You should not be able to buy your way into a better resume.

Sure you should, if one wants to pay for more education, extra tutoring, more books to put themselves in a better position to succeed, it should he encouraged

Tutors and books only contribute to your grades, not the benefit you get from attending Harvard over a public state college. But all schools should have tutors available, and educational materials should be plentiful in libraries and online. That still shouldn't be something you have to spend much money, if any, on.
The point is, me and Joe should not go to the same high school, make the same grades, major in the same thing, and be significantly different in hireability because he had Harvard money and I went for public university.

[Ethel mermania]

Sure you should, if one wants to pay for more education, extra tutoring, more books to put themselves in a better position to succeed, it should he encouraged

Tutors and books only contribute to your grades, not the benefit you get from attending Harvard over a public state college. But all schools should have tutors available, and educational materials should be plentiful in libraries and online. That still shouldn't be something you have to spend much money, if any, on.
The point is, me and Joe should not go to the same high school, make the same grades, major in the same thing, and be significantly different in hireability because he had Harvard money and I went for public university.

If you are poor, harvard is basically free.

If the workload at harvard is better than ohio state, all other things being equal the harvard student should be the first hired.

[Perisno]

Higher Education is not a right. As such, it should not be free. Making it free for all devalues education, so it won't even matter once you get the education. Employers won't care.

Not to mention, the more intelligent will have their college paid for by employers who are interested in them. If all college is free, these special deals are no longer open for the students who actually work to get special interest's interest. Army enrollment will go down as well. Making college free will do no one any good.

[Ifreann]

A yeti cooler and an education are not the same thing. You should not be able to buy your way into a better resume.

Sure you should, if one wants to pay for more education, extra tutoring, more books to put themselves in a better position to succeed, it should be encouraged

Success shouldn't require up-front investment. That's how you get people trapped in poverty.

[South Ccanda]

I dunno about that. Private college is like buying a yeti cooler even though the store is handing out free Ozark Trail coolers. If you want to pay more for a brand name, go for it. it's America. Have fun.

A yeti cooler and an education are not the same thing. You should not be able to buy your way into a better resume.

I think you absolutely should be able to do that. what is the point of accumulating wealth for your children if they can't use that wealth to live the life they desire?

[Stagnant Axon Terminal]

Tutors and books only contribute to your grades, not the benefit you get from attending Harvard over a public state college. But all schools should have tutors available, and educational materials should be plentiful in libraries and online. That still shouldn't be something you have to spend much money, if any, on.
The point is, me and Joe should not go to the same high school, make the same grades, major in the same thing, and be significantly different in hireability because he had Harvard money and I went for public university.

If you are poor, harvard is basically free.

If the workload at harvard is better than ohio state, all other things being equal the harvard student should be the first hired.

Disagree. School does not determine one's preparedness for entering the workforce, reliability, or ability to do the job best.

[Stagnant Axon Terminal]

A yeti cooler and an education are not the same thing. You should not be able to buy your way into a better resume.

I think you absolutely should be able to do that. what is the point of accumulating wealth for your children if they can't use that wealth to live the life they desire?

They shouldn't be able to use money to live a life inherently better than others. You should not be able to purchase your way into success, health, etc. Although I'm biased, I am against currency in all forms.

[South Ccanda]

Sure you should, if one wants to pay for more education, extra tutoring, more books to put themselves in a better position to succeed, it should be encouraged

Success shouldn't require up-front investment. That's how you get people trapped in poverty.

That's a fair argument. Some people may get trapped in poverty. some people may exceed their wildest dreams, though. It is definitely uncertain what will happen. But if people are willing to roll the die, shouldn't they be allowed to?

[Ifreann]

A yeti cooler and an education are not the same thing. You should not be able to buy your way into a better resume.

I think you absolutely should be able to do that. what is the point of accumulating wealth for your children if they can't use that wealth to live the life they desire?

If you need to accumulate wealth for your children to have a happy and comfortable life, then what happens to all the people who can't accumulate wealth?

[Stagnant Axon Terminal]

Success shouldn't require up-front investment. That's how you get people trapped in poverty.

That's a fair argument. Some people may get trapped in poverty. some people may exceed their wildest dreams, though. It is definitely uncertain what will happen. But if people are willing to roll the die, shouldn't they be allowed to?

No.