Assad Government kills 34 Turkish Troops.

[Vistulange]

If Syria wasn't broken by a civil war, this invasion would be almost impossible. They only could do this because they have lackies on the ground and a country that is divided.

Fuck me.

That's literally the only reason Turkey is getting into this. Bravo. I'm dead serious. That's exactly why Turkey is involved there. Do you actually think Turkey would have actually tried to get itself involved in a civil war in Syria that didn't exist? Because, you know, Erdoğan and Assad were very close, as in, vacationing together, prior to 2011. You either knew that or disregarded it, or you didn't know. My money is on the latter.

The only reason Turkey got itself involved in this mess was because Erdoğan figured he could shift the Alawite, pro-Iran and pro-Russian leadership at the head to one that was from the Muslim Brotherhood a la Mursi in Egypt, and keep the fellow in power as a compliant, pro-Turkish and pro-Western guy. Mind you, much of your lot was in with this plan, too, the whole deal with removing Assad and replacing him with the "mild Islamists" that could take the AKP as an example of democratic Islamism - remember, this was 2011-2013 and Erdoğan was still all the liberals' not-so-secret crush, since he wasn't pissing on your toes, just ours - up until ISIS became a serious thing.

Ironically, Erdoğan has been the most consistent through this, at least on a superficial level. Credit where it's due, so have Putin and the Iranians - they've never made secrets about their clear preference for Assad.

EDIT: Felt a need to elaborate.

When I say "Erdoğan figured", I never said he figured right. The state of affairs is evident: Assad survived, and the regime does not really look like it's going to fall anytime soon. Hell, the war has been going on for nearly a decade now. Turkey might emerge victorious from these skirmishes and this immediate conflict, but it's going to be the end of Erdoğan.

It genuinely feels odd, to look back eight or nine years and remember folks saying that this whole deal in Syria would be Erdoğan's end - it really does look that way.

[Loben The 2nd]

just watched a complimation of what looked like syrian military getting blasted by air strikes.

where or where are those Russian SAM's that are apparently in syria?

[Durin V]

They all died.

I remember the Greeks winning that war and those 300 holding off the persians, making said win possible.

Which 300? You do know that it's a fairytale right? in reality there were thousands of Greeks holding back the Persians. And as said previously, the war wasn't won because of that battle.

[Loben The 2nd]

I remember the Greeks winning that war and those 300 holding off the persians, making said win possible.

Which 300? You do know that it's a fairytale right? in reality there were thousands of Greeks holding back the Persians. And as said previously, the war wasn't won because of that battle.

the Virgin Thermopylae vs the chad SALAMIS

[Shofercia]

Which 300? You do know that it's a fairytale right? in reality there were thousands of Greeks holding back the Persians. And as said previously, the war wasn't won because of that battle.

the Virgin Thermopylae vs the chad SALAMIS

Best post in the thread thus far!

(Yes, I'm serious)

[Nakena]

Weren't it for the officer purges and promotion of incompetent hacks and 90 days trained conscript the TSK could totally trash the remainder of the SAA and be in a few weeks be in Damascus.

[Tokora]

Is it possible for the Syrian fascists, Turkish fascists, and Islamic fundamentalists to all lose? The lesser of three evils is still three evils.

[Nakena]

Is it possible for the Syrian fascists, Turkish fascists, and Islamic fundamentalists to all lose? The lesser of three evils is still three evils.

Nah. One of those three will win.

[Unstoppable Empire of Doom]

They all died.[/quote]
no they didnt.

At least not until long after the battle of thermopylae.

[Durin V]

Is it possible for the Syrian fascists, Turkish fascists, and Islamic fundamentalists to all lose? The lesser of three evils is still three evils.

Do you even know what facsism is?

[SD_Film Artists]

I didn't know Greece was that anti-immigration.
https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/refu ... turkey-sea

Video appears to show the Greek coastguard trying to capsize a packed boat before attacking refugees with a stick

Boats carrying refugees leaving Turkey for Greece have allegedly been attacked by armed men and the Greek coastguard in at least two separate incidents, according to rescue groups and Turkish officials.

[The East Marches II]

I didn't know Greece was that anti-immigration.
https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/refu ... turkey-sea

Video appears to show the Greek coastguard trying to capsize a packed boat before attacking refugees with a stick

Boats carrying refugees leaving Turkey for Greece have allegedly been attacked by armed men and the Greek coastguard in at least two separate incidents, according to rescue groups and Turkish officials.

If the Turks don't want them, why would a country broken by fiscal discipline want them?

[Baltenstein]

I didn't know Greece was that anti-immigration.
https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/refu ... turkey-sea

Video appears to show the Greek coastguard trying to capsize a packed boat before attacking refugees with a stick

Boats carrying refugees leaving Turkey for Greece have allegedly been attacked by armed men and the Greek coastguard in at least two separate incidents, according to rescue groups and Turkish officials.

The immigrant situation on some Greek islands (Lesbos and Chios in particular) has been unbearable for years. The current situation is the stick (straw would be an understatement) that broke the island's back.

[LRON]

Oh Syria ought to resist?

With what?

They have guns and they have the will. This wouldn't be the first time in history guerilla fighters kept a foreign army at bay

Dont you remember the 300 spartans?

The 300 Spartans were backed by approximately 6000-7000 other Greeks, lost, and certainly did not use guerrilla warfare.

[LRON]

I didn't know Greece was that anti-immigration.
https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/refu ... turkey-sea

Video appears to show the Greek coastguard trying to capsize a packed boat before attacking refugees with a stick

Boats carrying refugees leaving Turkey for Greece have allegedly been attacked by armed men and the Greek coastguard in at least two separate incidents, according to rescue groups and Turkish officials.

Every community has a breaking point.

[SD_Film Artists]

I didn't know Greece was that anti-immigration.
https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/refu ... turkey-sea

If the Turks don't want them, why would a country broken by fiscal discipline want them?

Culteral enrichment™ ?

The immigrant situation on some Greek islands (Lesbos and Chios in particular) has been unbearable for years. The current situation is the stick (straw would be an understatement) that broke the island's back.

Every community has a breaking point.

That sounds more understandable.

[The Lone Alliance]

And apparently Russian forces are moving in to secure the city of Saraqib and the M5 road, with that done Turkey has lost every chance of taking back the M5 road and cutting off Aleppo again.

They're also treating the war as an organized conflict again and are only advancing under an AA umbrella, part of the reason for the Drones effectiveness is the SAA advanced so fast they outpaced most of their air defenses because they foolishly believed they wouldn't need them.

Lessons learned, it looks like at this point the objective is to secure the M5 road and a buffer zone around it.

That'll deny the rebels more ways to hold Aleppo hostage and further make them an irrelevant force for resisting Syria.

Still it looks like any efforts to retake Idlib itself has likely been called off by Russia.

[Loben The 2nd]

I didn't know Greece was that anti-immigration.
https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/refu ... turkey-sea

Video appears to show the Greek coastguard trying to capsize a packed boat before attacking refugees with a stick

Boats carrying refugees leaving Turkey for Greece have allegedly been attacked by armed men and the Greek coastguard in at least two separate incidents, according to rescue groups and Turkish officials.

this was bound to happen eventually.

[The Lone Alliance]

this was bound to happen eventually.

Unfortunately I think the this lesson needs to be learned sooner rather than latter. Cold Equations and the negative side human nature usually come to play eventually.

Every community has a breaking point.

Exactly, and around 3 million more refugees is far beyond Greece's breaking point.

[The East Marches II]

And apparently Russian forces are moving in to secure the city of Saraqib and the M5 road, with that done Turkey has lost every chance of taking back the M5 road and cutting off Aleppo again.

They're also treating the war as an organized conflict again and are only advancing under an AA umbrella, part of the reason for the Drones effectiveness is the SAA advanced so fast they outpaced most of their air defenses because they foolishly believed they wouldn't need them.

Lessons learned, it looks like at this point the objective is to secure the M5 road and a buffer zone around it.

That'll deny the rebels more ways to hold Aleppo hostage and further make them an irrelevant force for resisting Syria.

Still it looks like any efforts to retake Idlib itself has likely been called off by Russia.

That's the big oof re the AA. That would explain why they couldn't stop anything. I had thought the Israelis perhaps were helping the Turks in air defense suppression. I'm glad in this case to be wrong.

[Baltenstein]

Hey remember when Erdogan said two days ago that he has no other choice than to send "millions" of immigrants to Greece because the EU is not sending him sufficient amounts of money? He's currently holding a press conference in Ankara where he just said this:

"We rejected 1 bn euro migrant aid offer from the European Union. Turkey already spent $40 billion and will find way to earn that money," Erdoğan told reporters during the meeting.

"We are talking to them. They tell us, 'we will send you a billion euros.' Who are you trying to fool? ... We don't want this money," Erdoğan said in the televised comments as thousands of migrants try to cross from Turkey into Greece.

So, erm...he complaints about not getting money, but, uh...also...when he is being offered money? Okay.

He has also added some made-up incidents about Greek border security killing immigrants for good measure.

Criticizing Athens for having no respect for international migration law, Erdoğan also added that two migrants have been killed by Greek security forces on border so far.

http://www.anews.com.tr/world/2020/03/0 ... er-from-eu

EDIT:

Also, I have a question to our Turkish native speakers, why do Erdogan's speeches so often come across as if he is either adressing a mentally challenged person or is one himself? I am talking specifically about the - very - simplistic rhetoric dialogues he seems to be so fond of, like this one:

"We are talking to them. They tell us, 'we will send you a billion euros.' Who are you trying to fool? ... We don't want this money,"

Is this simply something that has a different effect in Turkish than in other languages or is Erdogan known for odd speech-pattern habits with Turkey's domestic audience as well?

[The Lone Alliance]

That's the big oof re the AA. That would explain why they couldn't stop anything. I had thought the Israelis perhaps were helping the Turks in air defense suppression. I'm glad in this case to be wrong.

Israel did help with air defense suppression simply by being the largest threat up until the point Turkey intervened, it's likely that Syria had a larger portion of their air defenses deployed against Israeli aggression instead of Turkish aggression, considering Israel had been the ones doing most of the bombing as of late, Israel also started threatening to start a massive air offensive to "Drive the Iranians out of Syria" likely to deliberately force Syria to keep some of their defenses facing them in order to help the Turkish offensive.

But it was telling that the vast majority of the AA defenses Syria was using against the drones was AA guns and not SAMs, though Turkey did take out one battery in Aleppo.

[The East Marches II]

That's the big oof re the AA. That would explain why they couldn't stop anything. I had thought the Israelis perhaps were helping the Turks in air defense suppression. I'm glad in this case to be wrong.

Israel did help with air defense suppression simply by being the largest threat up until the point Turkey intervened, it's likely that Syria had a larger portion of their air defenses deployed against Israeli aggression instead of Turkish aggression, considering Israel had been the ones doing most of the bombing as of late, Israel also started threatening to start a massive air offensive to "Drive the Iranians out of Syria" likely to deliberately force Syria to keep some of their defenses facing them in order to help the Turkish offensive.

But it was telling that the vast majority of the AA defenses Syria was using against the drones was AA guns and not SAMs, though Turkey did take out one battery in Aleppo.

Good take, I could see that being a thing. I can't speak to AA composition or dispositions. I'll take your word for it on the matter.

[Tokora]

Is it possible for the Syrian fascists, Turkish fascists, and Islamic fundamentalists to all lose? The lesser of three evils is still three evils.

Do you even know what facsism is?

Far-right authoritarianism that not always but usually persecutes minorities with the goal of forming a single, united culture.

[Durin V]

Do you even know what facsism is?

Far-right authoritarianism that not always but usually persecutes minorities with the goal of forming a single, united culture.

So where do you see "Syrian fascists", or "Turkish fascists" for that matter?