NationStates

Tobleste wrote:

The Two Jerseys wrote:Or try to ban trucks?

Here's what I dont get: you guys like to pretend that guns are just like trucks in that they're great and safe and it would be stupid to regulate them. But you also argue that without guns "the people" (I.e. gun owners) would be defenseless from an imminent Gestapoesque American dictatorship.

How can guns be so devastating that an American Reich would be brought low by a small amount of under educated gun hoarders but be so irrelevant that they're no more dangerous than a car? If cars and trucks are just as dangerous as guns, why do you need guns? If guns are no more dangerous than cars and trucks, how can guns be so effective?

I'm being slightly sarcastic. I know the real reason. The arguments are completely inconsistent and are invented to defend a cultural gun obsession that is limited to America.

Have you considered no longer inventing them?

Instead of focusing on gun control, why don't we focus on the mental health issues.

American Pere Housh wrote:Instead of focusing on gun control, why don't we focus on the mental health issues.

Because that might actually help.

American Pere Housh wrote:Instead of focusing on gun control, why don't we focus on the mental health issues.

Why?

Have to admit to it.
Need funding for that kind of thing. Everybody is for it until you mention taxes.
Even the gun nuts have argued against things like the mentally ill should not have access to weapons.

Sounds simple and yet it’s an effort to establish.

The Black Forrest wrote:

American Pere Housh wrote:Instead of focusing on gun control, why don't we focus on the mental health issues.

Why?

Have to admit to it.
Need funding for that kind of thing. Everybody is for it until you mention taxes.
Even the gun nuts have argued against things like the mentally ill should not have access to weapons.

Sounds simple and yet it’s an effort to establish.

Case in point...

Tobleste wrote:

The Two Jerseys wrote:Or try to ban trucks?

Here's what I dont get: you guys like to pretend that guns are just like trucks in that they're great and safe and it would be stupid to regulate them. But you also argue that without guns "the people" (I.e. gun owners) would be defenseless from an imminent Gestapoesque American dictatorship.

How can guns be so devastating that an American Reich would be brought low by a small amount of under educated gun hoarders but be so irrelevant that they're no more dangerous than a car? If cars and trucks are just as dangerous as guns, why do you need guns? If guns are no more dangerous than cars and trucks, how can guns be so effective?

I'm being slightly sarcastic. I know the real reason. The arguments are completely inconsistent and are invented to defend a cultural gun obsession that is limited to America.

The relevance of guns isn't a result of how devastating they are. A truck is more devastating if you want to murder as many people as possible, a gun on the other hand is an excellent force equalizer, and makes it much harder for a small group of people to control a much larger group of people. Compare for example the demonstrations in Hong Kong, New York or Paris, where protesters were disarmed vs those in Virginia where they were decidedly not.

Aclion wrote:

Tobleste wrote:
Here's what I dont get: you guys like to pretend that guns are just like trucks in that they're great and safe and it would be stupid to regulate them. But you also argue that without guns "the people" (I.e. gun owners) would be defenseless from an imminent Gestapoesque American dictatorship.

How can guns be so devastating that an American Reich would be brought low by a small amount of under educated gun hoarders but be so irrelevant that they're no more dangerous than a car? If cars and trucks are just as dangerous as guns, why do you need guns? If guns are no more dangerous than cars and trucks, how can guns be so effective?

I'm being slightly sarcastic. I know the real reason. The arguments are completely inconsistent and are invented to defend a cultural gun obsession that is limited to America.

The relevance of guns isn't a result of how devastating they are. A truck is more devastating if you want to murder as many people as possible, a gun on the other hand is an excellent force equalizer, and makes it much harder for a small group of people to control a much larger group of people. Compare for example the demonstrations in Hong Kong, New York or Paris, where protesters were disarmed vs those in Virginia where they were decidedly not.

What was the difference between the demonstrations in New York and Virginia? Aside from the guns.

American Pere Housh wrote:Instead of focusing on gun control, why don't we focus on the mental health issues.

Why not both?

That said, I'd have some respect for gun control opponents if they spent half as much effort on addressing gun violence through mental health as they do on trying to shut down conversations on gun control. Unfortunately, I haven't seen much evidence that they actually care about the topic and seem to just use mental health as a distraction (like video games - another thing they occasionally blame mass shootings on yet do feck all about because they dont really care about the issue).

Tobleste wrote:

American Pere Housh wrote:Instead of focusing on gun control, why don't we focus on the mental health issues.

Why not both?

That said, I'd have some respect for gun control opponents if they spent half as much effort on addressing gun violence through mental health as they do on trying to shut down conversations on gun control. Unfortunately, I haven't seen much evidence that they actually care about the topic and seem to just use mental health as a distraction (like video games - another thing they occasionally blame mass shootings on yet do feck all about because they dont really care about the issue).

just one question if you will permit me.

why are you afraid of guns?

Loben The 2nd wrote:

Tobleste wrote:
Why not both?

That said, I'd have some respect for gun control opponents if they spent half as much effort on addressing gun violence through mental health as they do on trying to shut down conversations on gun control. Unfortunately, I haven't seen much evidence that they actually care about the topic and seem to just use mental health as a distraction (like video games - another thing they occasionally blame mass shootings on yet do feck all about because they dont really care about the issue).

just one question if you will permit me.

why are you afraid of guns?

That's a dumb question tbh. Even as a supporter of 2nd Amendment rights, I have a healthy fear of firearms. You'd be an idiot not too.

Neanderthaland wrote:

Loben The 2nd wrote:
just one question if you will permit me.

why are you afraid of guns?

That's a dumb question tbh. Even as a supporter of 2nd Amendment rights, I have a healthy fear of firearms. You'd be an idiot not too.

not really what i meant.

i meant fear as in a straight up unhealthy fear of them.

i fear but respect guns for their mechanical history.

my question while blunt is meant that way to be as open as possible.

Loben The 2nd wrote:

Neanderthaland wrote:That's a dumb question tbh. Even as a supporter of 2nd Amendment rights, I have a healthy fear of firearms. You'd be an idiot not too.

not really what i meant.

i meant fear as in a straight up unhealthy fear of them.

i fear but respect guns for their mechanical history.

my question while blunt is meant that way to be as open as possible.

What does an unhealthy fear of firearms look like? Do the Amish have an unhealthy fear of firearms?

Neanderthaland wrote:

Loben The 2nd wrote:
not really what i meant.

i meant fear as in a straight up unhealthy fear of them.

i fear but respect guns for their mechanical history.

my question while blunt is meant that way to be as open as possible.

What does an unhealthy fear of firearms look like? Do the Amish have an unhealthy fear of firearms?

the argument in favor of gun control.

Loben The 2nd wrote:

Neanderthaland wrote:What does an unhealthy fear of firearms look like? Do the Amish have an unhealthy fear of firearms?

the argument in favor of gun control.

I can't help but notice the circularity of that.

Neanderthaland wrote:

Loben The 2nd wrote:
the argument in favor of gun control.

I can't help but notice the circularity of that.

upon further thought yes it does look quite circular....

The Black Forrest wrote:

American Pere Housh wrote:Instead of focusing on gun control, why don't we focus on the mental health issues.

Why?

Have to admit to it.
Need funding for that kind of thing. Everybody is for it until you mention taxes.
Even the gun nuts have argued against things like the mentally ill should not have access to weapons.

Sounds simple and yet it’s an effort to establish.

What do you mean when you say mentally ill?

Tobleste wrote:

The Two Jerseys wrote:Or try to ban trucks?

Here's what I dont get: you guys like to pretend that guns are just like trucks in that they're great and safe and it would be stupid to regulate them. But you also argue that without guns "the people" (I.e. gun owners) would be defenseless from an imminent Gestapoesque American dictatorship.

How can guns be so devastating that an American Reich would be brought low by a small amount of under educated gun hoarders but be so irrelevant that they're no more dangerous than a car? If cars and trucks are just as dangerous as guns, why do you need guns? If guns are no more dangerous than cars and trucks, how can guns be so effective?

I'm being slightly sarcastic. I know the real reason. The arguments are completely inconsistent and are invented to defend a cultural gun obsession that is limited to America.

I mean, have you ever considered that the government would ALSO have trucks? Meaning that the people would lack guns, but have trucks. They could certainly then use those trucks to fight the government. However the government would have both trucks AND guns.

Not to mention that it's only slightly less than half of the people in US that have access to guns. 30% Personally own a gun themselves, and 43% live in a household with a gun. Keep in mind that while guns are not distributed to EVERYONE, the US civilian population has more small arms than the Russian and Chinese military's combined.

So we're not talking about 'A small number of guns in the hands of some paranoid preppers.' we're talking about enough guns to arm the entire civilian populace of the USA in an untracked, decentralized network that at the very least, almost half of the USA has immediate access to, and if it came down to it, it wouldn't take the other half that long to avail themselves of it.

They're less 'inconsistent' and more 'you literally don't understand what you're talking about.'

Guns are tools. Trucks are tools. That they can both be used to murder lots of people doesn't mean they shouldn't be used.

The Black Forrest wrote:

American Pere Housh wrote:Instead of focusing on gun control, why don't we focus on the mental health issues.

Why?

Have to admit to it.
Need funding for that kind of thing. Everybody is for it until you mention taxes.
Even the gun nuts have argued against things like the mentally ill should not have access to weapons.

Sounds simple and yet it’s an effort to establish.

Well in Alabama, if you are mentally ill or a felon then you can't legally own a firearm plus it's felony to possess a stolen firearm in Alabama.

Tobleste wrote:

American Pere Housh wrote:Instead of focusing on gun control, why don't we focus on the mental health issues.

Why not both?

That said, I'd have some respect for gun control opponents if they spent half as much effort on addressing gun violence through mental health as they do on trying to shut down conversations on gun control. Unfortunately, I haven't seen much evidence that they actually care about the topic and seem to just use mental health as a distraction (like video games - another thing they occasionally blame mass shootings on yet do feck all about because they dont really care about the issue).

Because the former is savage and terrible. As for your "opponents" I've never met a single supporter of gun rights who was made out of straw.

The Black Forrest wrote:

American Pere Housh wrote:Instead of focusing on gun control, why don't we focus on the mental health issues.

Why?

Have to admit to it.
Need funding for that kind of thing. Everybody is for it until you mention taxes.
Even the gun nuts have argued against things like the mentally ill should not have access to weapons.

Sounds simple and yet it’s an effort to establish.

Because simply being diagnosed with a mental disorder shouldn't cost you your natural rights.

Chernoslavia wrote:

The Black Forrest wrote:
Why?

Have to admit to it.
Need funding for that kind of thing. Everybody is for it until you mention taxes.
Even the gun nuts have argued against things like the mentally ill should not have access to weapons.

Sounds simple and yet it’s an effort to establish.

Because simply being diagnosed with a mental disorder shouldn't cost you your natural rights.

Guns are not natural rights.

As to disorders? There are certain diseases where you a threat to yourself and others; you should not have access To guns if you have one of those.

Bromagia wrote:

The Black Forrest wrote:
Why?

Have to admit to it.
Need funding for that kind of thing. Everybody is for it until you mention taxes.
Even the gun nuts have argued against things like the mentally ill should not have access to weapons.

Sounds simple and yet it’s an effort to establish.

What do you mean when you say mentally ill?

The types of illness where you are threat to yourself and or others. Those numbers are small as compared to depression and anxiety....

The Black Forrest wrote:

Chernoslavia wrote:
Because simply being diagnosed with a mental disorder shouldn't cost you your natural rights.

Guns are not natural rights.

As to disorders? There are certain diseases where you a threat to yourself and others; you should not have access To guns if you have one of those.

They are a natural right though.

The Black Forrest wrote:

Chernoslavia wrote:
Because simply being diagnosed with a mental disorder shouldn't cost you your natural rights.

Guns are not natural rights.

As to disorders? There are certain diseases where you a threat to yourself and others; you should not have access To guns if you have one of those.

The right to keep and bear arms is in fact a natural right.

The Black Forrest wrote:

Bromagia wrote:What do you mean when you say mentally ill?

The types of illness where you are threat to yourself and or others. Those numbers are small as compared to depression and anxiety....

Ah. More vague handwaving when asked for concrete details. Gotcha. You're just repeating the "correct" noises about a policy that you've heard elsewhere.

This is why these ideas are met with derision: they aren't even plans in a meaningful way.