2020 US General Election Thread V: Pandemic Postpones Polls

[Major-Tom]

Bloomberg is essentially the same person as Trump, but not senile. He's literally the only person running who I would prefer Trump to. You seriously think Sanders would cause the downfall of the democrats and not the person who goes against everything they claim to stand for?

If you think Bloomberg and trump are the same, you have no clue about either of them.

They're not the same, but to defeat Trump in 2020, we need someone who is markedly different from Trump, not someone who was buddies with him until 2015. We need someone who didn't run a standard line Republican administration with a slight inclination towards Democratic nanny state policies and a few concessions towards liberalism.

I just don't see many independent or apathetic voters seeing two NYC billionaires and former acquaintances on the ballot and thinking "well, shit, this is a consequential decision." I have my gripes with Biden, Klobuchar, Pete, etc, but I'd happily vote for them over Trump. If it were Bloomberg, I'd probably vote him in, but I'd wallow in self-hatred for months after the fact.

[Farnhamia]

You know how "insane" is not literal, right? Just like when you ask someone "what are you smoking?", you're not actually interested in what substances they may or may not be inhaling... You're using it to say they're being ridiculous.

Since you seem such a babe in the woods, I'll tell you what's crazy... It's a bunch of faux Sanders supporters that are so over the top with vitriol and rudeness that they could well be Trump supporters. Their goal? To alienate the moderate Dem vote in an effort to ensure they won't come out and vote for Bernie in November. If not that, then they're just ignorant. You may fit the bill either way. Why not tone it down?

Knock it the fuck off. You're not helping and this is borderline flame-bait.

[Ethel mermania]

Gotta have your zingers be accurate to the pharmaceutical classifications of heroin.

Being technically correct is the best kind of correct.

---

They sent them to get heads up on more bombings in NYC, which has happened. Local protests were not handled by counter-terrorism.

Making excuses for local police acting internationally really doesn't address my point.

---

You would much rather Bloomberg than Sanders?

Lumen would rather America become a one party dictatorship than have Sanders be the nominee, as long as it's his party.

---

Unless you're a psychiatrist... don't diagnose the insane.

BTW, Bloomberg donated $1.8 Billion to Johns Hopkins University. Did you?

Bet that was worth a big tax write-off. How many government services go underfunded because billionaires get to effectively dictate public spending through "charitable" donations?

That NYPD investigates outside of NYC? I have no objection to that, and they have been doing it long before Bloomberg.

[Jerzylvania]

Since you seem such a babe in the woods, I'll tell you what's crazy... It's a bunch of faux Sanders supporters that are so over the top with vitriol and rudeness that they could well be Trump supporters. Their goal? To alienate the moderate Dem vote in an effort to ensure they won't come out and vote for Bernie in November. If not that, then they're just ignorant. You may fit the bill either way. Why not tone it down?

People on Twitter and the internet are rude, I don't care if they're Bernie supporters, Pete supporters, Klobuchar supporters, Trump supporters etc, it's semi-anonymous online and people can vent their pent up political anger without any real-world consequences (unless you're Bret Stephens, of course).

At the end of the day, the Bernie supporter you know in person is going to be no more rude than the Biden supporter you know.

The persons I know irl aren't part of some major Russian effort to help Trump get reelected. What the goals of certain voices I hear over the internet is certainly in question.

[Major-Tom]

People on Twitter and the internet are rude, I don't care if they're Bernie supporters, Pete supporters, Klobuchar supporters, Trump supporters etc, it's semi-anonymous online and people can vent their pent up political anger without any real-world consequences (unless you're Bret Stephens, of course).

At the end of the day, the Bernie supporter you know in person is going to be no more rude than the Biden supporter you know.

The persons I know irl aren't part of some major Russian effort to help Trump get reelected. What the goals of certain voices I hear over the internet is certainly in question.

This idea of "Russian bots" is just an over-exaggeration at best. Angry people on Twitter and Facebook are just that, angry online people.

[Jerzylvania]

The persons I know irl aren't part of some major Russian effort to help Trump get reelected. What the goals of certain voices I hear over the internet is certainly in question.

This idea of "Russian bots" is just an over-exaggeration at best. Angry people on Twitter and Facebook are just that, angry online people.

You wanna show your sources on that claim? Or is that subjective opinion?

[Cisairse]

"What every study out there -- conservative or progressive -- says, Medicare for all will save money. Ours will cost about $45 billion, not $60 trillion."

From From the transcript. Also I heard Bernie say it.

Never mind it's only 3 orders of magnitude.

That mistake was so absurd that it wraps around to being minor because it’s so obviously a mistake.

Sanders got very stressed up there, and I’m not sure why. He should’ve expected the opposition he faced tonight. Maybe he did, but didn’t prepare enough?

I think his "How much time do we have?" comment revealed why he was so upset. He's said before that he hates debates because you can't actually defend yourself — there's no time for anything except bumper-sticker chants in a minute and fifteen seconds. Couple that with the fact that they were asking him questions he has answered thoroughly before, and yeah I would probably be stressed too.

[Major-Tom]

This idea of "Russian bots" is just an over-exaggeration at best. Angry people on Twitter and Facebook are just that, angry online people.

You wanna show your sources on that claim? Or is that subjective opinion?

It was small scale in 2016. It's easier to cast blame on trolls from a different continent than to look deep within the problems of our own party, or to analyze Trump's popularity as a whole. Take the analysis on Facebook, 1 in 23,000 pieces of content were linked to Russia according to the study The Nation cites. I'm not going to lose sleep over that statistic.

There are Russian bots, they exist. But not every account posting pissed off messages is a Russian bot, it's just such an easy scapegoat. Russia is deep into a several year long economic downturn and dealing with internal opposition that does threaten the Putin regime. I can't imagine they'd orchestrate a malicious, large-scale effort to help a Democratic candidate on Twitter tbh. I can't speak for the actions of individuals or some small-scale "Russian activity," but the idea of a massive Russian conspiracy is just that, a conspiracy.

[Cisairse]

The media will push the Biden "come back kid" narrative if he wins SC (even if he's been ordained to win it since he's announced).

Super Tuesday will be the defining moment in this primary, Biden still has a real shot.

Nah, Biden is too old to be the "Come Back Kid". Something more is needed to fit his age. But Biden could make it a contested convention if he gets a sizable amount of Delegates matched to Sanders. I don't know, this race is fluid and unpredictable.

In that case we'll call him the Johnny Cash of this election, for suddenly having a viable career again in old age long after everyone thought he was done for.

[Cisairse]

You wanna show your sources on that claim? Or is that subjective opinion?

It was small scale in 2016. It's easier to cast blame on trolls from a different continent than to look deep within the problems of our own party, or to analyze Trump's popularity as a whole. Take the analysis on Facebook, 1 in 23,000 pieces of content were linked to Russia according to the study The Nation cites. I'm not going to lose sleep over that statistic.

There are Russian bots, they exist. But not every account posting pissed off messages is a Russian bot, it's just such an easy scapegoat. Russia is deep into a several year long economic downturn and dealing with internal opposition that does threaten the Putin regime. I can't imagine they'd orchestrate a malicious, large-scale effort to help a Democratic candidate on Twitter tbh. I can't speak for the actions of individuals or some small-scale "Russian activity," but the idea of a massive Russian conspiracy is just that, a conspiracy.

"Conspiracy" just means an agreement between two or more persons to do something. The fact that there is more than one person behind the Russian troll farms doesn't make them any less real.

[Jerzylvania]

You wanna show your sources on that claim? Or is that subjective opinion?

It was small scale in 2016. It's easier to cast blame on trolls from a different continent than to look deep within the problems of our own party, or to analyze Trump's popularity as a whole. Take the analysis on Facebook, 1 in 23,000 pieces of content were linked to Russia according to the study The Nation cites. I'm not going to lose sleep over that statistic.

There are Russian bots, they exist. But not every account posting pissed off messages is a Russian bot, it's just such an easy scapegoat. Russia is deep into a several year long economic downturn and dealing with internal opposition that does threaten the Putin regime. I can't imagine they'd orchestrate a malicious, large-scale effort to help a Democratic candidate on Twitter tbh. I can't speak for the actions of individuals or some small-scale "Russian activity," but the idea of a massive Russian conspiracy is just that, a conspiracy.

Nevertheless, there is a danger here for the actual overzealous Sanders supporters. Driving off any potential future moderate supporters which Bernie needs to win the General is a fool's errand.

[San Lumen]

It was small scale in 2016. It's easier to cast blame on trolls from a different continent than to look deep within the problems of our own party, or to analyze Trump's popularity as a whole. Take the analysis on Facebook, 1 in 23,000 pieces of content were linked to Russia according to the study The Nation cites. I'm not going to lose sleep over that statistic.

There are Russian bots, they exist. But not every account posting pissed off messages is a Russian bot, it's just such an easy scapegoat. Russia is deep into a several year long economic downturn and dealing with internal opposition that does threaten the Putin regime. I can't imagine they'd orchestrate a malicious, large-scale effort to help a Democratic candidate on Twitter tbh. I can't speak for the actions of individuals or some small-scale "Russian activity," but the idea of a massive Russian conspiracy is just that, a conspiracy.

Nevertheless, there is a danger here for the actual overzealous Sanders supporters. Driving off any potential future moderate supporters which Bernie needs to win the General is a fool's errand.

Hence why I think he would alienate the middle in a general election and cost us the house

[United States of Devonta]

Who won the South Carolina Democratic Debate? -FiveThirtyEight/Ipsos

Interesting numbers, it seem's Bernie had a good debate performance in the eyes of viewers. On the contrary to what all of us thought. Bernie and Mayor Pete were graded the highest and ended in a Tie. Bernie got the largest jump in voter consideration after the debate and was rated the most likely to beat Trump.

It seems some how, he won this debate, even with a bad performance.

[Ethel mermania]

Nevertheless, there is a danger here for the actual overzealous Sanders supporters. Driving off any potential future moderate supporters which Bernie needs to win the General is a fool's errand.

Hence why I think he would alienate the middle in a general election and cost us the house

Which I get, i personally dislike Bloomberg, however i may still vote for him, Sanders? HAHAHA, no.

[San Lumen]

Who won the South Carolina Democratic Debate? -FiveThirtyEight/Ipsos

Interesting numbers, it seem's Bernie had a good debate performance in the eyes of viewers. On the contrary to what all of us thought. Bernie and Mayor Pete were graded the highest and ended in a Tie. Bernie got the largest jump in voter consideration after the debate and was rated the most likely to beat Trump.

It seems some how, he won this debate, even with a bad performance.

Like trump he has a base of support that will never leave him. It’s not enough to win an election

[Shrillland]

Who won the South Carolina Democratic Debate? -FiveThirtyEight/Ipsos

Interesting numbers, it seem's Bernie had a good debate performance in the eyes of viewers. On the contrary to what all of us thought. Bernie and Mayor Pete were graded the highest and ended in a Tie. Bernie got the largest jump in voter consideration after the debate and was rated the most likely to beat Trump.

It seems some how, he won this debate, even with a bad performance.

I think it's because we at NSG tend to look at these debates as in a vacuum, not necessarily taking how the candidates are faring outside them into consideration or how die hard their supporters can be.

[Outer Sparta]

Who won the South Carolina Democratic Debate? -FiveThirtyEight/Ipsos

Interesting numbers, it seem's Bernie had a good debate performance in the eyes of viewers. On the contrary to what all of us thought. Bernie and Mayor Pete were graded the highest and ended in a Tie. Bernie got the largest jump in voter consideration after the debate and was rated the most likely to beat Trump.

It seems some how, he won this debate, even with a bad performance.

Like trump he has a base of support that will never leave him. It’s not enough to win an election

You're assuming that base of support is a constant and will never change. Here's the thing: young people and minorities vote less often. Getting them to turnout more would do wonders.

[United States of Devonta]

Who won the South Carolina Democratic Debate? -FiveThirtyEight/Ipsos

Interesting numbers, it seem's Bernie had a good debate performance in the eyes of viewers. On the contrary to what all of us thought. Bernie and Mayor Pete were graded the highest and ended in a Tie. Bernie got the largest jump in voter consideration after the debate and was rated the most likely to beat Trump.

It seems some how, he won this debate, even with a bad performance.

Like trump he has a base of support that will never leave him. It’s not enough to win an election

Fight fire w/ fire baby!

[San Lumen]

Like trump he has a base of support that will never leave him. It’s not enough to win an election

You're assuming that base of support is a constant and will never change. Here's the thing: young people and minorities vote less often. Getting them to turnout more would do wonders.

And only winning urban areas Won’t get you a house majority

[Alien Space Bats]

Spanish flu had a mortality rate that varied from less than 1% at the low end to as high as 25% at the high end, depending on the strain. Currently, COVID-19's estimated mortality rate is something like 2.3%.

Apologies. I did not intend to be hysterical. Even so, a 2-3% rate is going to mean a lot more deaths and potential disruption that what we're used to and have been used to for a long time.

Absolutely agreed, and the lack of preparation here in the U.S. is going to make it much worse. We don't have enough protective gear for our hospital staff, let alone for doctors, nurses, and medical professionals working in private offices around the country. Nor do we have enough testing kits. And if it comes to imposing quarantines, it's going to take a widespread mobilization of the National Guard to provide local law enforcement with the muscle that it needs to enforce those quarantines, given the level of open distrust and hostility towards authority in general. I can't see the State Police or local LEO's alone having the ability to keep people from spreading the virus around in uncontrolled fashion without backup.

But beyond this, my biggest concerns are twofold, and neither of them go directly to mortality: First, I'm concerned about our food distribution system, especially at the local level. Too many people rely on food delivery from restaurants or prepared food from deli counters, all of which are going to fail in community outbreak situations. For most people, cooking (sadly) means opening a bag or can of something someone else already made, and even that line of access to nutrition is going to be at risk with recent budget (and leadership) cuts at the FDA.

Second, I wouldn't put it past Trump to use his authority to try and cancel voting on the grounds that the polls are a potential place where disease could be spread, especially if it means disrupting the Democratic Party's nomination process. I mean, the RNC would happily just give him the nomination if push came to shove, and if the Democrats never finished their primary process and couldn't come up with someone to run against him, I can't imagine Trump being chuffed about having to run unopposed.

[San Lumen]

Apologies. I did not intend to be hysterical. Even so, a 2-3% rate is going to mean a lot more deaths and potential disruption that what we're used to and have been used to for a long time.

Absolutely agreed, and the lack of preparation here in the U.S. is going to make it much worse. We don't have enough protective gear for our hospital staff, let alone for doctors, nurses, and medical professionals working in private offices around the country. Nor do we have enough testing kits. And if it comes to imposing quarantines, it's going to take a widespread mobilization of the National Guard to provide local law enforcement with the muscle that it needs to enforce those quarantines, given the level of open distrust and hostility towards authority in general. I can't see the State Police or local LEO's alone having the ability to keep people from spreading the virus around in uncontrolled fashion without backup.

But beyond this, my biggest concerns are twofold, and neither of them go directly to mortality: First, I'm concerned about our food distribution system, especially at the local level. Too many people rely on food delivery from restaurants or prepared food from deli counters, all of which are going to fail in community outbreak situations. For most people, cooking (sadly) means opening a bag or can of something someone else already made, and even that line of access to nutrition is going to be at risk with recent budget (and leadership) cuts at the FDA.

Second, I wouldn't put it past Trump to use his authority to try and cancel voting on the grounds that the polls are a potential place where disease could be spread, especially if it means disrupting the Democratic Party's nomination process. I mean, the RNC would happily just give him the nomination if push came to shove, and if the Democrats never finished their primary process and couldn't come up with someone to run against him, I can't imagine Trump being chuffed about having to run unopposed.

He has zero authority to shut down polling stations. There is no federal department or agency that manages elections. Elections are run by states

[Jerzylvania]

Nevertheless, there is a danger here for the actual overzealous Sanders supporters. Driving off any potential future moderate supporters which Bernie needs to win the General is a fool's errand.

Hence why I think he would alienate the middle in a general election and cost us the house

I don't see the logic in taking it out on down ballot candidates. Perhaps it's not about logic, but rather the human negative emotional response to mean people. Anyway you cut it, this is going to be a very close election and Bernie will need every democratic voter to go to the polls and cast a ballot for him. There's very good strategy in staying out of your own way.

[Alien Space Bats]

"just join the Peace Corps or go to war"

literally the most stereotypically boomer answer ever

That one went right over your head, didn't it?

Don't join the Peace Corps or sign up for military service, then. Find a local church group that does volunteer work overseas and offer to help out for a few weeks in some other country. I knew of a Pentecostalist church in Southeastern Michigan that used to send parishioners to Africa for a week (or even just a long weekend) to dig wells, build schools and clinics, etc. Or engage in a little "activist tourism", in which you travel somewhere for a few months to work with local populations in various ways, whether that involves construction, distributing medicines, monitoring environmental degradation, or whatever. My point is that if you never get out of the States (or Europe), you'll never see how many of the things you take for granted are actually not things that should be taken for granted at all.

But, hey: If you don't want to do that, and instead want to go ahead and pretend that life as a young person here in America, where you may not have the best job prospects or a steady stream of raises to pay off that student loan of yours is the worst possible arrangement a human being could ever have, go ahead. Just don't get pissed off when those of us who know better mock you or laugh at you for your idiotic attitude, because you will have so very richly deserved it.

[Alien Space Bats]

If we're going on actual population proportions, whites would still be a majority of the court. Blacks wouldn't even have a seat.

Yeah, they would. With 12% of the population being black, they'd have precisely one seat on the Court (which is what they have now).

[Washington Resistance Army]

"just join the Peace Corps or go to war"

literally the most stereotypically boomer answer ever

That one went right over your head, didn't it?

Don't join the Peace Corps or sign up for military service, then. Find a local church group that does volunteer work overseas and offer to help out for a few weeks in some other country. I knew of a Pentecostalist church in Southeastern Michigan that used to send parishioners to Africa for a week (or even just a long weekend) to dig wells, build schools and clinics, etc. Or engage in a little "activist tourism", in which you travel somewhere for a few months to work with local populations in various ways, whether that involves construction, distributing medicines, monitoring environmental degradation, or whatever. My point is that if you never get out of the States (or Europe), you'll never see how many of the things you take for granted are actually not things that should be taken for granted at all.

But, hey: If you don't want to do that, and instead want to go ahead and pretend that life as a young person here in America, where you may not have the best job prospects or a steady stream of raises to pay off that student loan of yours is the worst possible arrangement a human being could ever have, go ahead. Just don't get pissed off when those of us who know better mock you or laugh at you for your idiotic attitude, because you will have so very richly deserved it.

Nobody is saying that living in the US as a young person is the worst possible arrangement a human being could ever have and even saying that makes it seem like you just ignore all the very real complaints young people have about things.