Re: 5 million dollars to change religion

[Heloin]

As people mentioned, the money is not the trick. It is the fact that you would spend the next decade actively engaging with the ccommunity, replacing your social circle with that of the church chosen, reorganising your schedule to fit the church.

And then after 10 years the deal says you could walk away and start all over; leaving your friends, routine, perhaps even your new life partner you met at the church behind.

Would you ? Are you sure ?

there's a probability that you'd feel very comfortable in the new faith over the 10 years and decide to stay (even when the 10 years lapse, it's your call)

Giving the option to switch back kills the point of the scenario though. If you're saying that you have to be 100% committed to the new faith to get the five mil but can change later, then anyone who takes the money expecting to change has already failed.

however, if you find a new comfort in your newfound faith, is that not a good thing?

Irrelevant to the question though.

[Radiatia]

I'd happily take the deal. I could do with an extra $5 million in the bank (given how expensive New Zealand is becoming, $5 million should cover about two weeks rent) but also I genuinely miss being religious and having something to believe in and a community to worship with every Sunday.

I can't actually change my beliefs because I find religion inherently irrational and trying to justify such a belief to myself only leads to cognitive dissonance, but yeah the chance to go back to actually having something to believe in and hope for in my life, with a $5M bonus sounds like a hell of a good deal to me.

[La Xinga]

Bloody rituals? Huh??

Perhaps they refer to the maiming of the genitals ?

Who would do such a thing? jews for sure do not, Islam I would guess would not either, but I don't know.

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My opinion on this is I would never do what the OP says! It's like a son running away from his merciful father (who keeps him living every second) for 5 million.

[Infected Mushroom]

I don't understand why there aren't more Yes votes.

Do people not want 5 million dollars?

I'm shocked.

[Greed and Death]

I do not think only good things happen to good people but shit some order to the world some rightness by witch it could be judged is all I ask for.

I really empathize with you, and honestly everyone goes through this kind of spiritual struggle and come out one way or another.

However, the conclusion I've come to, that seems to be supported by Christian scripture and tradition, is that we're not going to really get true justice this side of Judgement. The Christian hope comes from beyond where we are. Which sounds pretty discouraging, I know, but there is something empowering about it if you'll humor me.

Evangelicalism, as far as I have seen, avoids the topic of suffering. However, Catholicism does have a theology of suffering and what Christians can do in the face of it, I believe it is called "Redemptive Suffering". I'm no expert in this by any means, but this is my understanding: When we face personal suffering, we offer it up as a form of worship. Instead of of despairing in what we're going through, we look to that aforementioned hope beyond and realize that through our faith, death and suffering don't have power over us.

I know that this is a difficult concept to grasp, I've struggled with it too, and it may or may not apply to your particular issue, but it's a thought.

Thank you I will take your words to heart and think upon them.

[Diarcesia]

I don't understand why there aren't more Yes votes.

Do people not want 5 million dollars?

I'm shocked.

Imagine exponentially increasing your "perceived" chances of going to hell for five million dollars.

What good is it for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul?

Neither their money, nor their children will help them against GOD. They have incurred the hellfire, wherein they abide forever.

[Infected Mushroom]

I don't understand why there aren't more Yes votes.

Do people not want 5 million dollars?

I'm shocked.

Imagine exponentially increasing your "perceived" chances of going to hell for five million dollars.

What good is it for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul?

Neither their money, nor their children will help them against GOD. They have incurred the hellfire, wherein they abide forever.

but for all we know, maybe the new religion was the correct one

[Rojava Free State]

Perhaps they refer to the maiming of the genitals ?

Who would do such a thing? jews for sure do not, Islam I would guess would not either, but I don't know.

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My opinion on this is I would never do what the OP says! It's like a son running away from his merciful father (who keeps him living every second) for 5 million.

Jewish baby boy's foreskins be like "you didn't have to cuuuuut me oooooff"

[Infected Mushroom]

There's a substantial probability that the person who takes this deal not only gains 5 millions but also ends up in heaven

it doesn't so bad now does it?

[Albrenia]

There's a substantial probability that the person who takes this deal not only gains 5 millions but also ends up in heaven

it doesn't so bad now does it?

Unless their previous position was correct, that is.

[Infected Mushroom]

There's a substantial probability that the person who takes this deal not only gains 5 millions but also ends up in heaven

it doesn't so bad now does it?

Unless their previous position was correct, that is.

The way I see it, people have already rolled the die once (picked a religion or not, in the hopes of not getting screwed in the afterlife).

Now what's wrong with being paid 5 million dollars to roll the die again?

I mean, it's something you might have done for free anyways. So why not? It doesn't necessarily hurt your chances.

[Armenos]

Please consider this on-its-surface-very-simple (but really, quite complicated) hypothetical:

You will be paid 5 million dollars if you change your religion (or adopt a new religion if you're currently non-religious). You can only choose between Christianity and Islam and very specifically, only the three largest denominations of either (so 6 options in total).

If you're already a Christian though, you have to choose one of the 3 Islamic choices. If you're already Islamic, you have to choose one of the 3 Christian choices.

If you "take the deal" you have to do the following:

1. Actively choose to believe in the new religion for at least a nearly continuous period of 10 years
2. For those 10 years, actively practice the new religion
3. Fo those 10 years, actively proselytise the new religion to all friends and family, old and new
4. Fo those 10 years, actively present yourself as a practitioner of the new religion to all friends and family, old and new

If you "take the deal" but fail to do 1-4 fo an accumulated period, then the deal may be revoked. When it does get revoked, the penalty is that you not only instantly lose the 5 million but also all of you money and all of your family's money... EVERYTHING. ALL GONE.

So think wisely.

Would you take the deal? Yes or no?

Now having said that, I believe the options come down to this:

1. No, my religious status is not for sale
2. No, it's unethical to gamble with my family's entire fortune
3. I would like to do it but I say No because I don't think it's possible to do one or more of terms 1-5 (ex Belief is not choice)
4. Yes, and it sounds easy
5. Yes, even though 1-5 is going to take some serious work

For the purposes of the hypothetical, assume the 5 million dollars is exempt from the laws of taxation and 100% legal (you can keep all of it).

Please choose an option and then discuss why it is the most reasonable, morally correct, and/or economically viable option. Feel free to debate with others.

I would choose Option 5. However, it's going to be really really hard to tell my brain, "hey listen up, this new religion is now 100% real. START TALKING TO GOD!" However, with some persistence, I could get started on this 10 year thing. But I have every inclination to believe it's going to be hell hard.

To be frank,I would choose to convert to Judaism if I had such an option but going around and prosyletizing isn't the nature of Judaism and some of my family members wouldn't take my conversion well and could turn to "belligerent" means.

So I would say option 3

[Zarmagon]

I don't understand why there aren't more Yes votes.

Do people not want 5 million dollars?

I'm shocked.

There's a substantial probability that the person who takes this deal not only gains 5 millions but also ends up in heaven

it doesn't so bad now does it?

So... all of this is just hypothetical. Therefore, I do not get any money for this... thing.

Why would someone recognize in public that he or she may take such an offer? It's all about reputation finally.

However, in real life you should ask better what the people would do if there is hunger and what choices they would do. If the people are ready for cannibalism due to their animal selfishness when hungry then why not about the trade of faiths? Do they really care of their souls?

Only those enough civilized and moral would reject such offers and put their ethical principles before rather to die for morality than to spoil their "eternal souls" but such people are too few in such a big world like ours.

Many have a lot of pride and selfishness in themselves, perhaps more than they may know. It's the Darwinist Survival Epoch now. Look around you and at the politicians and businessmen and tell if you can still find moral people. Humans had became beasts already but in a white-collar style.

Another question is this: How can you be sure that you can go in heaven? Or how do you know which religion is the good one?

In the Christian Gospels the words of Jesus Christ are like these: "I come from the Father. Who leaves Me (in the front of the people) he leaves the Father and I leave him (in the front of Father). Who trust in Me and in the Father that sent Me, even if he dies he will live." Another thing in Christianity is the idea of helping each other.

In the Islam what I know is that all is about serving Allah and his Prophet and by leaving Islam you'll get a condemnation to death (and drinking your blood after - a practice in the Middle East). An interesting idea, despite not so approved or agreed by many Muslims (but promoted by some terrorists), is that after death you may become a green bird in heaven or that you may get a harem of virgin girls and the strength of many men in you. However, here I didn't find if anywhere about mutual help.

Most of people doesn't ever question themselves seriously on such subject but I'm sure that two thirds of the world's peoples could become cannibalistic beasts in certain moments and their bite is ruthless.

[Dylar]

Another question is this: How can you be sure that you can go in heaven? Or how do you know which religion is the good one?

It's called faith for a reason

[Purgatio]

There's a substantial probability that the person who takes this deal not only gains 5 millions but also ends up in heaven

it doesn't so bad now does it?

Well, except the rules in the OP requires one to sacrifice everything you and your family currently own. So this essentially just boils down to a poll to see what percentage of NSGers come from families with less or more than US$5m.

[Heloin]

There's a substantial probability that the person who takes this deal not only gains 5 millions but also ends up in heaven

it doesn't so bad now does it?

Well, except the rules in the OP requires one to sacrifice everything you and your family currently own. So this essentially just boils down to a poll to see what percentage of NSGers come from families with less or more than US$5m.

That's an insanely stupid take.

[Purgatio]

Well, except the rules in the OP requires one to sacrifice everything you and your family currently own. So this essentially just boils down to a poll to see what percentage of NSGers come from families with less or more than US$5m.

That's an insanely stupid take.

Thats literally what the rules say. If someone happens to come from a family with more than US$5m, there's literally no upside to the OP's deal if the rules state you have to give up everything you currently own. Then its a deal that's all harm for no benefit, which is pointless. Which defeats the point of these kinds of questions (which requires a pro-con bargain).

[Stagnant Axon Terminal]

i kind of have a thing for catholics so sign me up

[Heloin]

That's an insanely stupid take.

Thats literally what the rules say. If someone happens to come from a family with more than US$5m, there's literally no upside to the OP's deal if the rules state you have to give up everything you currently own. Then its a deal that's all harm for no benefit, which is pointless. Which defeats the point of these kinds of questions (which requires a pro-con bargain).

You think everyone prioritising their faith over the 5 million dollars has that kind of money? Maybe the guy who's stated that they regularly spend $100,000 for a vacation is a bit out of touch with how much money people tend to have.

[Purgatio]

Thats literally what the rules say. If someone happens to come from a family with more than US$5m, there's literally no upside to the OP's deal if the rules state you have to give up everything you currently own. Then its a deal that's all harm for no benefit, which is pointless. Which defeats the point of these kinds of questions (which requires a pro-con bargain).

You think everyone prioritising their faith over the 5 million dollars has that kind of money? Maybe the guy who's stated that they regularly spend $100,000 for a vacation is a bit out of touch with how much money people tend to have.

Which misses the point. The "you have to give up everything you and your family own for the US$5m" doesn't really add anything to the problem, all it does is it means in some circumstances and for some persons the 'dilemma' doesn't become a dilemma anymore (because it only imposes costs and confers no benefit), without really adding anything to the dilemma for everyone else. It would make more sense to do away with that requirement so its an actual dilemma in all cases.

[The Alma Mater]

There's a substantial probability that the person who takes this deal not only gains 5 millions but also ends up in heaven

it doesn't so bad now does it?

Well, except the rules in the OP requires one to sacrifice everything you and your family currently own.

It doesn't actually. It merely makes it very likely, because when you become an evangelist for your new faith you will probably alienate your current social circle.

Or convert them for real.

[Infected Mushroom]

Well, except the rules in the OP requires one to sacrifice everything you and your family currently own.

It doesn't actually. It merely makes it very likely, because when you become an evangelist for your new faith you will probably alienate your current social circle.

Or convert them for real.

is conversion of others difficult?

[The Alma Mater]

It doesn't actually. It merely makes it very likely, because when you become an evangelist for your new faith you will probably alienate your current social circle.

Or convert them for real.

is conversion of others difficult?

Well, at this moment 64% of NSG voters are not even tempted by 5 million - so it seems it is not easy.

[Rojava Free State]

is conversion of others difficult?

Well, at this moment 64% of NSG voters are not even tempted by 5 million - so it seems it is not easy.

My facts and logic are a solid steel wall against the influences of religion. You'd have to turn your brain off to rationalize how a world as brutal as this could be overseen by a God that is all knowing, all loving and all powerful. He can't be all three of those things if the world is a hellhole. Clearly there's limitations, and for me the logical limitation to God is that you can't stop bad things from happening if you don't exist.

Also someone please explain to me how adam and eve's son abel had a son named enoch with a woman when adam and eve were the first two people and therefore there couldn't have been more than 10 people in the world at that time, all of whom would be the children of the progenitors. See, you can't use your brain or the whole narrative caves in.

[Hakinda Herseyi Duymak istiyorum]

I wouldn't change, I'm happy to be weak agnostic