Re: 5 million dollars to change religion

[Mirial Magna]

Yeah that's about what this hypothetical comes out to be. "Gay guys: Would you be straight for ten years to earn $5 million?" "Straight guys: Would you be gay for ten years to earn $5 million?"

I considered making that.

However, in the end, I decided that this thread would generate a better discussion about the nature of faith.

Most people will never change their religious beliefs.
I guess the fact that we're not all worshiping the sun/moon shows that there are exceptions to this rule.

[Alpes a Septentrionali Imperium]

No, my religion is not for sale. That and I generally disagree with quite a few practices of Islam, the only religion I would be able to convert to for the 5 million in this scenario.

[Ifreann]

Santa is the forensic accountant, he has those slave elves determining who is naughty and nice.

I think I could outwit the old man.

But he sees you when you're sleeping. He knows when you're awake. He knows about your offshore accounts, so pay your taxes for goodness sake.

[Mirial Magna]

I think I could outwit the old man.

But he sees you when you're sleeping. He knows when you're awake. He knows about your offshore accounts, so pay your taxes for goodness sake.

I will NEVER pay my taxes!
#TaxFraudforLife

[The Grims]

Yup it’s right next to the switch that makes you gay

Yeah that's about what this hypothetical comes out to be. "Gay guys: Would you be straight for ten years to earn $5 million?" "Straight guys: Would you be gay for ten years to earn $5 million?"

Indeed, the same question. You can go through the motions, but your heart would.not be in it.
Or perhaps it would.

[The New California Republic]

I think I could outwit the old man.

But he sees you when you're sleeping. He knows when you're awake. He knows about your offshore accounts, so pay your taxes for goodness sake.

He must have an elf spy in the Cayman Islands. Dammit.

[Samudera Darussalam]

I think I could outwit the old man.

But he sees you when you're sleeping. He knows when you're awake. He knows about your offshore accounts, so pay your taxes for goodness sake.

So santa is basically a stalker....good to know.

[Atlantarctica]

I would take the offer but that would make me seem like a greedy idiot...

[DACOROMANIA]

This is very interesting debate.

As a Christian, my option here might be to choose Islam.

If I've been born in another place and in other circumstances than I'm now, then I would have been open to such offer of 5 million dollars. Not what I would do as for who I am now.
However, I'd have turn not just my family and friends to the new religion, but also I'd be going for more, even making plans for a Sultanate for myself. It would not be easy to make everyone to convert, but the promise of a "harem" for some people and their loyalty surely may work.

So, for 10 years following all 4 steps. I wouldn't do all these for nothing. I'll be the new Sultan and my newer subjects would take care for that I'll remain so.
Today it's more easier to change the religions or faiths of millions of people, even nations. For example, ideologies like Communism worked well in that direction. Yet more are converted daily to various faiths and ideologies.

""1. Actively choose to believe in the new religion for at least a nearly continuous period of 10 years
2. For those 10 years, actively practice the new religion
3. Fo those 10 years, actively proselytise the new religion to all friends and family, old and new
4. Fo those 10 years, actively present yourself as a practitioner of the new religion to all friends and family, old and new
""

One more thing: once converted to Islam you cannot turn back or to other religions. Muslims may cut heads for that. It's a real fact in Middle East (and beyond). An entire family was killed for the conversion of a man to Christianity. But who cares?

[Bananaistan]

The proposition is nonsense. How does one go about actively choosing to believe in something? You could go through the motions of your new religion but you cannot choose to believe.

[Ifreann]

The proposition is nonsense. How does one go about actively choosing to believe in something? You could go through the motions of your new religion but you cannot choose to believe.

Ah, but by the same token, how can a third party tell if you're really actively choosing to believe something or just going through the motions?

[The New California Republic]

The proposition is nonsense. How does one go about actively choosing to believe in something? You could go through the motions of your new religion but you cannot choose to believe.

I think it's more asking would you fake being a believer for money.

[Ethel mermania]

I think I could outwit the old man.

But he sees you when you're sleeping. He knows when you're awake. He knows about your offshore accounts, so pay your taxes for goodness sake.

Exactly, the santa state is the police state

[Washington Resistance Army]

5 million dollars isn't nearly enough for me to keep an act up for 10 years.

[Deacarsia]

Never!

“Thy money be with thee unto perdition: because thou hast thought that the gift of God is purchased with money. Thou hast no part, nor lot in this word. For thy heart is not right before God. Do penance therefore from this thy wickedness: and pray to God, if perhaps this cogitation of thy heart may be remitted thee. For I see thou art in the gall of bitterness and the obligation of iniquity.” (Acts 8:20-23)

“For the root of all evils is covetousness: vwhich certain desiring have erred from the faith, and have entangled themselves in many sorrows.” (I Timothy 6:10)

[Thermodolia]

But he sees you when you're sleeping. He knows when you're awake. He knows about your offshore accounts, so pay your taxes for goodness sake.

So santa is basically a stalker....good to know.

I mean ya

[Thermodolia]

5 million dollars isn't nearly enough for me to keep an act up for 10 years.

You already worship several gods what’s one more?

[The Grims]

The proposition is nonsense. How does one go about actively choosing to believe in something? You could go through the motions of your new religion but you cannot choose to believe.

Perhaps going through the motions will cause belief. An jnteresting thing to study.

[-Santa-]

But he sees you when you're sleeping. He knows when you're awake. He knows about your offshore accounts, so pay your taxes for goodness sake.

I will NEVER pay my taxes!
#TaxFraudforLife

NO PRESENTS FOR YOU.

[Granluras]

So the Christian options are Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy, and either Anglicanism or Oriental Orthodoxy, depending on the estimate. The Islamic options are Sunni Islam, Shia Islam, and Kharijite Islam.
My religious preferences are not for sale. I value my eternal soul more than any amount of money.

This

[Unstoppable Empire of Doom]

As I have no soul I cant really put a price on it. However I find the entire offer suspect. My, admittedly limited, understanding of Catholicism is you cannot fake faith. Thus you break the contract immediately. Not to mention greed is a sin.

I know far less about Islam but I assume it is similar in all abrahamic religions.

As an agnostic I might go for conversion to Catholicism. After 10 years I'd probably donate most of the money.

[Salus Maior]

I don't understand how people who profess an Abrahamic faith think that only good things can happen to good people.

That's never been a theme in the Christian tradition, that's for sure.

I do not think only good things happen to good people but shit some order to the world some rightness by witch it could be judged is all I ask for.

I really empathize with you, and honestly everyone goes through this kind of spiritual struggle and come out one way or another.

However, the conclusion I've come to, that seems to be supported by Christian scripture and tradition, is that we're not going to really get true justice this side of Judgement. The Christian hope comes from beyond where we are. Which sounds pretty discouraging, I know, but there is something empowering about it if you'll humor me.

Evangelicalism, as far as I have seen, avoids the topic of suffering. However, Catholicism does have a theology of suffering and what Christians can do in the face of it, I believe it is called "Redemptive Suffering". I'm no expert in this by any means, but this is my understanding: When we face personal suffering, we offer it up as a form of worship. Instead of of despairing in what we're going through, we look to that aforementioned hope beyond and realize that through our faith, death and suffering don't have power over us.

I know that this is a difficult concept to grasp, I've struggled with it too, and it may or may not apply to your particular issue, but it's a thought.

[Urlendia]

When I say this thread earlier today I was like "Pfft, no fucking way. I hate going to church!" But then I saw this really nice flat I would love to buy, and 5 million dollars would be more than enough. So yeah. My religion can be bought for a nice flat from 1901.

[Bananaistan]

The proposition is nonsense. How does one go about actively choosing to believe in something? You could go through the motions of your new religion but you cannot choose to believe.

Perhaps going through the motions will cause belief. An jnteresting thing to study.

I did it for long enough. It doesn't.

[Geneviev]

Being a very good liar, who can convince themselves. It comes with practice.

I would argue that the reason that those people believe in their religion isn’t because they lying to themselves. It’s because they have very very bad reasons for believing. I mean, what? Did they tell themselves in the mirror every morning and say that they believe in god? Did they prayed every meal to God they did not believe existed?

It’s probably more likely that they just had very bad reasons for their beliefs. At the very least, they remain unconvinced of the idea that the probability of God existing is low enough to warrant not believing in him. They didn’t choose that, they Merely remain unconvinced. They can’t help that the arguments they’ve heard, or not heard if they have closed themselves off from criticism, did not persuade them.

Those people are much more common, but there are also those who lie to themselves until they believe something that they never actually believed.