Re: 5 million dollars to change religion

[The Alma Mater]

I assumed it would just be judged objectively by an omniscient and omnipotent force (a sort of deified IM operating in the hypo-verse, the same one that teleports things in and out of existence, creates alternate timelines/worlds and alters/clarifies the laws of the scenarios)

In which case I'm changing my religion anyway, because that sounds a lot like God.

An omnipotent being that actually gives me 5 million also makes a much more convincing argument than one who says "yeah, I killed part of myself 2000 years ago, but got better. Now worship me".

[VoVoDoCo]

I would argue that the reason that those people believe in their religion isn’t because they lying to themselves. It’s because they have very very bad reasons for believing. I mean, what? Did they tell themselves in the mirror every morning and say that they believe in god? Did they prayed every meal to God they did not believe existed?

It’s probably more likely that they just had very bad reasons for their beliefs. At the very least, they remain unconvinced of the idea that the probability of God existing is low enough to warrant not believing in him. They didn’t choose that, they Merely remain unconvinced. They can’t help that the arguments they’ve heard, or not heard if they have closed themselves off from criticism, did not persuade them.

Those people are much more common, but there are also those who lie to themselves until they believe something that they never actually believed.

Are they aware that they lied to themselves? If so, I really doubt how legit this is. Unless I enlisted myself to be a part of some propaganda program andwas instilled with double think logic, I don’t think I could knowingly lie to myself and make me believe it.

If they’re not aware that they lied to them self, then they didn’t lie to themselves. They just convinced themselves.

[The New California Republic]

how come?

Well as you may be aware, it is a trivial matter for someone to make dozens of throwaway nations to vote in a poll and skew the results. Like that time someone made IM99 - IM150.

Oh yeah, that incident. IM's polls have a credibility rating of zero after that.

[Hammer Britannia]

I'm picking option one

You can't just pick and choose your faith. You can say you're this faith or that one, but you can't just pick and choose one willy nilly

[Lazarene Ryccia]

I'll do it for more.

[Salus Maior]

In which case I'm changing my religion anyway, because that sounds a lot like God.

An omnipotent being that actually gives me 5 million also makes a much more convincing argument than one who says "yeah, I killed part of myself 2000 years ago, but got better. Now worship me".

Nobody's asking you to become a Christian, AM.

[Heloin]

You could be Jewish.

They can't even pull the weak excuse of "well that was the old testament but our new testament is peaceful." That's the only part of their bible

Uh, cool?

[Czechostan]

No. I will never abandon Discordianism. Hail Eris!

[Kandorith]

No, absolutely not. There is no amount of materialism which could make me abandon my gods, heck even if it was punishable by death.

[Geneviev]

Those people are much more common, but there are also those who lie to themselves until they believe something that they never actually believed.

Are they aware that they lied to themselves? If so, I really doubt how legit this is. Unless I enlisted myself to be a part of some propaganda program andwas instilled with double think logic, I don’t think I could knowingly lie to myself and make me believe it.

If they’re not aware that they lied to them self, then they didn’t lie to themselves. They just convinced themselves.

The convincing does require lying. But people can become unaware of it after some time.

[Albrenia]

I am very very surprised that while the majority of NSG is willing to sell their right to vote, only a minority would be willing to sell their religious beliefs

does this mean that religion > voting rights?

Am I reading this correctly?

A lot of people don't believe one vote has any real power, whereas religion has a large number of powerful effects on one's life. For example, if I were to become Christian, I would have to go to Church and read the bible and other things like that.

[Nakena]

No. I will never abandon Discordianism. Hail Eris!

All Hail Discordia!

[Neanderthaland]

No. I will never abandon Discordianism. Hail Eris!

All Hail Discordia!

Claim your account today!

[Infected Mushroom]

is this one of the better hypotheticals?

I seek feedback so that future projects may be improved

[Heloin]

is this one of the better hypotheticals?

I seek feedback so that future projects may be improved

The premise itself contradicts itself. Odd hypothetical which shows more of a lack of understanding on how religious faith works then any sort of real discussion. No weird fantasy theme, Mary-Sue characters, or forced decisions so that's a positive. Shows promise but needs some work. All in all 5/10.

[Samudera Darussalam]

is this one of the better hypotheticals?

I seek feedback so that future projects may be improved

Tbh, no. A better understanding of how faith works - if you want to make a thread related to the subject - will be needed. Though....this is a little better compared to your Witch Queen the Series.

[The Grims]

is this one of the better hypotheticals?

I seek feedback so that future projects may be improved

Tbh, no. A better understanding of how faith works - if you want to make a thread related to the subject - will be needed. Though....this is a little better compared to your Witch Queen the Series.

Are you saying people do not acquire faith through routine ?

[Samudera Darussalam]

Tbh, no. A better understanding of how faith works - if you want to make a thread related to the subject - will be needed. Though....this is a little better compared to your Witch Queen the Series.

Are you saying people do not acquire faith through routine ?

People usually don't trade faith for money.....at least that's what I think most religious person do.

[Heloin]

Tbh, no. A better understanding of how faith works - if you want to make a thread related to the subject - will be needed. Though....this is a little better compared to your Witch Queen the Series.

Are you saying people do not acquire faith through routine ?

I think the point where you converted solely because someone paid you kinda invalidates any sense of faith towards the new religion.

[Zotrahn]

That's not even possible. I could pretend, sure, but actual belief is impossible to buy.

[The Grims]

Are you saying people do not acquire faith through routine ?

People usually don't trade faith for money.....at least that's what I think most religious person do.

True, but if one does something for a decade one gets used to it . Giving it up becomes hard. Faith that was once played might become so important to them it becomes real.

[Idzequitch]

Here's the thing. I don't believe in Allah, and $5 million dollars can't change that. I'm deeply rooted in my Christian faith, and while some of my beliefs about God have evolved over time, I find myself unable to force myself to believe in Allah. I would be unable to live such a long period of time in such a charade, and what's more, I'd be continually worried about leading astray the people I was proselytizing.

And on top of it all, I just wouldn't want to do it anyway. I like being a Christian. And I'd rather be authentic lower income Idz than rich fake Idz any day.

[-Astoria]

Nah, mostly because of #1.

[Infected Mushroom]

People usually don't trade faith for money.....at least that's what I think most religious person do.

True, but if one does something for a decade one gets used to it . Giving it up becomes hard. Faith that was once played might become so important to them it becomes real.

This is correct

Religion can be altered through habits and self-indoctrination

you can see how most people stick to the religions that they were brought up in (though of course, there are exceptions as people move into other communities and become exposed to other ideas)

I believe some of the discomfort with this thread is the result of people not used to/able to accept the idea that it is possible to change religions for a benefit; it doesn't happen much in real life because people want to fit in (that's the main benefit the religion provides and its not insubstantial), typically, one adopts the religious codes and ethos of those around us and that provides a structure

just as someone can continue to stay in one religion when confronted with evidence, so can someone change religion at will if one is willing to put in sufficient effort; religions are not about rationality or evidence, its about choosing to believe

now I will admit though, that if one is surrounded by Christian family members and lives in a non-Islamic community... the process of trying to force oneself to become Islamic may feel too unnatural and obstacle-filled to be practically overcome; it would require an unusually strong mind and determination

whether or not there is a religious community of like-minded people who are welcoming of the process (and perhaps even more importantly, the family aspects) could be a hugely decisive factor. So I would accept the notion that for some, depending on circumstance, they can reliably predict that a conversion wouldn't be possible, even for 5 million.

however, in other cases, its a possibility

[Idzequitch]

True, but if one does something for a decade one gets used to it . Giving it up becomes hard. Faith that was once played might become so important to them it becomes real.

This is correct

Religion can be altered through habits and self-indoctrination

you can see how most people stick to the religions that they were brought up in (though of course, there are exceptions as people move into other communities and become exposed to other ideas)

I believe some of the discomfort with this thread is the result of people not used to/able to accept the idea that it is possible to change religions for a benefit; it doesn't happen much in real life because people want to fit in (that's the main benefit the religion provides and its not insubstantial), typically, one adopts the religious codes and ethos of those around us and that provides a structure

just as someone can continue to stay in one religion when confronted with evidence, so can someone change religion at will if one is willing to put in sufficient effort; religions are not about rationality or evidence, its about choosing to believe

now I will admit though, that if one is surrounded by Christian family members and lives in a non-Islamic community... the process of trying to force oneself to become Islamic may feel too unnatural and obstacle-filled to be practically overcome; it would require an unusually strong mind and determination

whether or not there is a religious community of like-minded people who are welcoming of the process (and perhaps even more importantly, the family aspects) could be a hugely decisive factor. So I would accept the notion that for some, depending on circumstance, they can reliably predict that a conversion wouldn't be possible, even for 5 million.

however, in other cases, its a possibility

There's also the fact that most religions provide/promise a benefit to the follower that the individual may fear to lose. It's a tradeoff in the end. You may gain money, and who knows? Maybe you actually converted to the "right" religion. But by abandoning the faith you have, you risk any consequences you may believe are associated with leaving the faith you currently follow (Purgatory, Hell, bad karma, etc.)