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UN Torture Expert: Assange is Being Tortured

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Galloism
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UN Torture Expert: Assange is Being Tortured

Postby Galloism » Sun Feb 16, 2020 11:40 am

https://www.republik.ch/2020/01/31/nils ... an-assange

This is a very very long article, but it's very very worth the read. It appears we've been sold a bill of goods. This is in the form an interview, so i'm bolding the interviewer questions.

A few key paragraphs:

And then?
It quickly became clear to me that something was wrong. That there was a contradiction that made no sense to me with my extensive legal experience: Why would a person be subject to nine years of a preliminary investigation for rape without charges ever having been filed?

Is that unusual?
I have never seen a comparable case. Anyone can trigger a preliminary investigation against anyone else by simply going to the police and accusing the other person of a crime. The Swedish authorities, though, were never interested in testimony from Assange. They intentionally left him in limbo. Just imagine being accused of rape for nine-and-a-half years by an entire state apparatus and by the media without ever being given the chance to defend yourself because no charges had ever been filed.

You say that the Swedish authorities were never interested in testimony from Assange. But the media and government agencies have painted a completely different picture over the years: Julian Assange, they say, fled the Swedish judiciary in order to avoid being held accountable.
That’s what I always thought, until I started investigating. The opposite is true. Assange reported to the Swedish authorities on several occasions because he wanted to respond to the accusations. But the authorities stonewalled.

What do you mean by that: «The authorities stonewalled?»
Allow me to start at the beginning. I speak fluent Swedish and was thus able to read all of the original documents. I could hardly believe my eyes: According to the testimony of the woman in question, a rape had never even taken place at all. And not only that: The woman’s testimony was later changed by the Stockholm police without her involvement in order to somehow make it sound like a possible rape. I have all the documents in my possession, the emails, the text messages.

«The woman’s testimony was later changed by the police» – how exactly?
On Aug. 20, 2010, a woman named S. W. entered a Stockholm police station together with a second woman named A. A. The first woman, S. W. said she had had consensual sex with Julian Assange, but he had not been wearing a condom. She said she was now concerned that she could be infected with HIV and wanted to know if she could force Assange to take an HIV test. She said she was really worried. The police wrote down her statement and immediately informed public prosecutors. Even before questioning could be completed, S. W. was informed that Assange would be arrested on suspicion of rape. S. W. was shocked and refused to continue with questioning. While still in the police station, she wrote a text message to a friend saying that she didn’t want to incriminate Assange, that she just wanted him to take an HIV test, but the police were apparently interested in «getting their hands on him.»

What does that mean?
S.W. never accused Julian Assange of rape. She declined to participate in further questioning and went home. Nevertheless, two hours later, a headline appeared on the front page of Expressen, a Swedish tabloid, saying that Julian Assange was suspected of having committed two rapes.

Two rapes?
Yes, because there was the second woman, A. A. She didn’t want to press charges either; she had merely accompanied S. W. to the police station. She wasn’t even questioned that day. She later said that Assange had sexually harassed her. I can’t say, of course, whether that is true or not. I can only point to the order of events: A woman walks into a police station. She doesn’t want to file a complaint but wants to demand an HIV test. The police then decide that this could be a case of rape and a matter for public prosecutors. The woman refuses to go along with that version of events and then goes home and writes a friend that it wasn’t her intention, but the police want to «get their hands on» Assange. Two hours later, the case is in the newspaper. As we know today, public prosecutors leaked it to the press – and they did so without even inviting Assange to make a statement. And the second woman, who had allegedly been raped according to the Aug. 20 headline, was only questioned on Aug. 21.

What did the second woman say when she was questioned?
She said that she had made her apartment available to Assange, who was in Sweden for a conference. A small, one-room apartment. When Assange was in the apartment, she came home earlier than planned, but told him it was no problem and that the two of them could sleep in the same bed. That night, they had consensual sex, with a condom. But she said that during sex, Assange had intentionally broken the condom. If that is true, then it is, of course, a sexual offense – so-called «stealthing». But the woman also said that she only later noticed that the condom was broken. That is a contradiction that should absolutely have been clarified. If I don’t notice it, then I cannot know if the other intentionally broke it. Not a single trace of DNA from Assange or A. A. could be detected in the condom that was submitted as evidence.


So this is a bit fishy to start with, but hey, it can still be a crime even if the victim doesn't recognize it. But leaking to the press within two hours and having done no investigation? That's damn fishy.

Why would they do this?

Well...

Why would the Swedish authorities do something like that?
The timing is decisive: In late July, Wikileaks – in cooperation with the «New York Times», the «Guardian» and «Der Spiegel» – published the «Afghan War Diary». It was one of the largest leaks in the history of the U.S. military. The U.S. immediately demanded that its allies inundate Assange with criminal cases. We aren’t familiar with all of the correspondence, but Stratfor, a security consultancy that works for the U.S. government, advised American officials apparently to deluge Assange with all kinds of criminal cases for the next 25 years.


So why did Assange not want to talk to police? Well.... he did.

Where did the story come from that Assange was seeking to avoid Swedish justice officials?
This version was manufactured, but it is not consistent with the facts. Had he been trying to hide, he would not have appeared at the police station of his own free will. On the basis of the revised statement from S.W., an appeal was filed against the public prosecutor’s attempt to suspend the investigation, and on Sept. 2, 2010, the rape proceedings were resumed. A legal representative by the name of Claes Borgström was appointed to the two women at public cost. The man was a law firm partner to the previous justice minister, Thomas Bodström, under whose supervision Swedish security personnel had seized two men who the U.S. found suspicious in the middle of Stockholm. The men were seized without any kind of legal proceedings and then handed over to the CIA, who proceeded to torture them. That shows the trans-Atlantic backdrop to this affair more clearly. After the resumption of the rape investigation, Assange repeatedly indicated through his lawyer that he wished to respond to the accusations. The public prosecutor responsible kept delaying. On one occasion, it didn’t fit with the public prosecutor’s schedule, on another, the police official responsible was sick. Three weeks later, his lawyer finally wrote that Assange really had to go to Berlin for a conference and asked if he was allowed to leave the country. The public prosecutor’s office gave him written permission to leave Sweden for short periods of time.

And then?
The point is: On the day that Julian Assange left Sweden, at a point in time when it wasn’t clear if he was leaving for a short time or a long time, a warrant was issued for his arrest. He flew with Scandinavian Airlines from Stockholm to Berlin. During the flight, his laptops disappeared from his checked baggage. When he arrived in Berlin, Lufthansa requested an investigation from SAS, but the airline apparently declined to provide any information at all.

Why?
That is exactly the problem. In this case, things are constantly happening that shouldn’t actually be possible unless you look at them from a different angle. Assange, in any case, continued onward to London, but did not seek to hide from the judiciary. Via his Swedish lawyer, he offered public prosecutors several possible dates for questioning in Sweden – this correspondence exists. Then, the following happened: Assange caught wind of the fact that a secret criminal case had been opened against him in the U.S. At the time, it was not confirmed by the U.S., but today we know that it was true. As of that moment, Assange’s lawyer began saying that his client was prepared to testify in Sweden, but he demanded diplomatic assurance that Sweden would not extradite him to the U.S.


So he wanted a guarantee to not be extradited to the US. but Sweden declined. Is that unusual?

What is your view of the demand made by Assange’s lawyers?
Such diplomatic assurances are a routine international practice. People request assurances that they won’t be extradited to places where there is a danger of serious human rights violations, completely irrespective of whether an extradition request has been filed by the country in question or not. It is a political procedure, not a legal one. Here’s an example: Say France demands that Switzerland extradite a Kazakh businessman who lives in Switzerland but who is wanted by both France and Kazakhstan on tax fraud allegations. Switzerland sees no danger of torture in France, but does believe such a danger exists in Kazakhstan. So, Switzerland tells France: We’ll extradite the man to you, but we want a diplomatic assurance that he won’t be extradited onward to Kazakhstan. The French response is not: «Kazakhstan hasn’t even filed a request!» Rather, they would, of course, grant such an assurance. The arguments coming from Sweden were tenuous at best. That is one part of it. The other, and I say this on the strength of all of my experience behind the scenes of standard international practice: If a country refuses to provide such a diplomatic assurance, then all doubts about the good intentions of the country in question are justified. Why shouldn’t Sweden provide such assurances? From a legal perspective, after all, the U.S. has absolutely nothing to do with Swedish sex offense proceedings.

Why didn’t Sweden want to offer such an assurance?
You just have to look at how the case was run: For Sweden, it was never about the interests of the two women. Even after his request for assurances that he would not be extradited, Assange still wanted to testify. He said: If you cannot guarantee that I won’t be extradited, then I am willing to be questioned in London or via video link.

But is it normal, or even legally acceptable, for Swedish authorities to travel to a different country for such an interrogation?
That is a further indication that Sweden was never interested in finding the truth. For exactly these kinds of judiciary issues, there is a cooperation treaty between the United Kingdom and Sweden, which foresees that Swedish officials can travel to the UK, or vice versa, to conduct interrogations or that such questioning can take place via video link. During the period of time in question, such questioning between Sweden and England took place in 44 other cases. It was only in Julian Assange’s case that Sweden insisted that it was essential for him to appear in person.


That's interesting, during the period in which the Swedish authorities steadfastly refused to question Assange in London, despite repeated overtures to do so, they did so in 44 other cases without a hiccup.

Now, the only crime he's been taken to court over so far is a bail violation, for which...

4. In the UK, violations of bail conditions are generally only punished with monetary fines or, at most, a couple of days behind bars. But Assange was given 50 weeks in a maximum-security prison without the ability to prepare his own defense

...

What do you make of this accelerated verdict?
Assange only had 15 minutes to prepare with his lawyer. The trial itself also lasted just 15 minutes. Assange’s lawyer plopped a thick file down on the table and made a formal objection to one of the judges for conflict of interest because her husband had been the subject of Wikileaks exposures in 35 instances. But the lead judge brushed aside the concerns without examining them further. He said accusing his colleague of a conflict of interest was an affront. Assange himself only uttered one sentence during the entire proceedings: «I plead not guilty.» The judge turned to him and said: «You are a narcissist who cannot get beyond his own self-interest. I convict you for bail violation.»

If I understand you correctly: Julian Assange never had a chance from the very beginning?
That’s the point. I’m not saying Julian Assange is an angel or a hero. But he doesn’t have to be. We are talking about human rights and not about the rights of heroes or angels. Assange is a person, and he has the right to defend himself and to be treated in a humane manner. Regardless of what he is accused of, Assange has the right to a fair trial. But he has been deliberately denied that right – in Sweden, the U.S., Britain and Ecuador. Instead, he was left to rot for nearly seven years in limbo in a room. Then, he was suddenly dragged out and convicted within hours and without any preparation for a bail violation that consisted of him having received diplomatic asylum from another UN member state on the basis of political persecution, just as international law intends and just as countless Chinese, Russian and other dissidents have done in Western embassies. It is obvious that what we are dealing with here is political persecution. In Britain, bail violations seldom lead to prison sentences – they are generally subject only to fines. Assange, by contrast, was sentenced in summary proceedings to 50 weeks in a maximum-security prison – clearly a disproportionate penalty that had only a single purpose: Holding Assange long enough for the U.S. to prepare their espionage case against him.


In addition, he's being denied sufficient opportunity to participate in his own defense, and denied sufficient access to his lawyer.

As the UN Special Rapporteur on Torture, what do you have to say about his current conditions of imprisonment?
Britain has denied Julian Assange contact with his lawyers in the U.S., where he is the subject of secret proceedings. His British lawyer has also complained that she hasn’t even had sufficient access to her client to go over court documents and evidence with him. Into October, he was not allowed to have a single document from his case file with him in his cell. He was denied his fundamental right to prepare his own defense, as guaranteed by the European Convention on Human Rights. On top of that is the almost total solitary confinement and the totally disproportionate punishment for a bail violation. As soon as he would leave his cell, the corridors were emptied to prevent him from having contact with any other inmates.


Total solitary confinement, lack of access to a lawyer, unable to review evidence against him.... all for a bail violation.

And then, Sweden dropped the case in November of 2019.

Half a year after Assange was placed in pre-extradition detention in Britain, Sweden quietly abandoned the case against him in November 2019, after nine long years. Why then?
The Swedish state spent almost a decade intentionally presenting Julian Assange to the public as a sex offender. Then, they suddenly abandoned the case against him on the strength of the same argument that the first Stockholm prosecutor used in 2010, when she initially suspended the investigation after just five days: While the woman’s statement was credible, there was no proof that a crime had been committed. It is an unbelievable scandal. But the timing was no accident. On Nov. 11, an official document that I had sent to the Swedish government two months before was made public. In the document, I made a request to the Swedish government to provide explanations for around 50 points pertaining to the human rights implications of the way they were handling the case. How is it possible that the press was immediately informed despite the prohibition against doing so? How is it possible that a suspicion was made public even though the questioning hadn’t yet taken place? How is it possible for you to say that a rape occurred even though the woman involved contests that version of events? On the day the document was made public, I received a paltry response from Sweden: The government has no further comment on this case.

What does that answer mean?
It is an admission of guilt.



Look, Assange is no saint, but he is an investigative reporter, and according to a UN Torture expert, this was all fabricated to get him for having the temerity to report the classified stuff he received, using a sex offense to gain the sympathy of the public in incarcerating an investigative reporter, knowing we would likely take their side.

I'm guilty of it too. I didn't realize all what was really going on.

What say ye, NSG? Is this something we should accept as being normal from our free democratic governments?
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Red Roja
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Postby Red Roja » Sun Feb 16, 2020 11:43 am

Yes. The guy is a rapist. I have no pity for him. He deserves far worse.
Last edited by Red Roja on Sun Feb 16, 2020 11:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Vassenor » Sun Feb 16, 2020 11:50 am

Galloism wrote:Look, Assange is no saint, but he is an investigative reporter, and according to a UN Torture expert, this was all fabricated to get him for having the temerity to report the classified stuff he received, using a sex offense to gain the sympathy of the public in incarcerating an investigative reporter, knowing we would likely take their side.


Ah yes, the old "this is all to punish him for making the US look bad and everything else was faked to justify it" angle.

Change the bloody record, it's gotten worn out over the years.
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Galloism
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Postby Galloism » Sun Feb 16, 2020 11:54 am

Vassenor wrote:
Galloism wrote:Look, Assange is no saint, but he is an investigative reporter, and according to a UN Torture expert, this was all fabricated to get him for having the temerity to report the classified stuff he received, using a sex offense to gain the sympathy of the public in incarcerating an investigative reporter, knowing we would likely take their side.


Ah yes, the old "this is all to punish him for making the US look bad and everything else was faked to justify it" angle.

Change the bloody record, it's gotten worn out over the years.

I take it you didn't read any part of the OP except that sentence.

Try it, you might be surprised.

Again, this is the UN Special Rapporteur on Torture, appointed by the UN Human Rights Council. And he's examined all the documentation in the case, on both sides.

This is not some random conspiracy theorist.
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
The Parkus Empire: Being serious on NSG is like wearing a suit to a nude beach.
New Kereptica: Since power is changed energy over time, an increase in power would mean, in this case, an increase in energy. As energy is equivalent to mass and the density of the government is static, the volume of the government must increase.


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Galloism
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Postby Galloism » Sun Feb 16, 2020 11:57 am

Red Roja wrote:Yes. The guy is a rapist. I have no pity for him. He deserves far worse.

You mean after the women in question said he wasn't a rapist in their original statement, and that statement was changed by police? After the police in Sweden suddenly determined no crime had been committed in November of 2019 as soon as he was in UK custody and extradition was setup to the US?

I mean, maybe he is. But nobody thinks so, including the women in question, or the government who originally charged him and held an arrest warrant on for a decade, then suddenly decided there's no evidence of a crime.

EDIT: I've been corrected by Gravlen that although the original statement didn't include anything about a rape until changed by police, that woman in question now insists there was a rape, despite originally claiming to have had consensual sex without a condom and just wanting an HIV test from Assange, and walking out when police attempted to classify it as a rape, followed by refusing to cooperate, as the article shows. Only the government now thinks there's no evidence of a crime.

Now she calls it rape, so maybe he is a rapist after all.

But that doesn't mean this all wasn't used to get him in a position to be sent to the US, as the UN official states.
Last edited by Galloism on Sun Feb 16, 2020 12:18 pm, edited 4 times in total.
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
The Parkus Empire: Being serious on NSG is like wearing a suit to a nude beach.
New Kereptica: Since power is changed energy over time, an increase in power would mean, in this case, an increase in energy. As energy is equivalent to mass and the density of the government is static, the volume of the government must increase.


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Postby Gravlen » Sun Feb 16, 2020 12:09 pm

Galloism wrote:
Red Roja wrote:Yes. The guy is a rapist. I have no pity for him. He deserves far worse.

You mean after the women in question said he wasn't a rapist in their original statement, and that statement was changed by police?

The woman in question, S.W., disputes this. She has upheld her complaint, and is still maintaining that she was raped.

If this all was manufactured by the police, why would she still be saying that today?

Galloism wrote:I mean, maybe he is. But nobody thinks so, including the women in question, or the government who originally charged him.

This is false.

Back in May 2019, the woman hailed the news that Swedish authorities were reopening the case after Assange was ejected from the Embassy.
The lawyer for a Swedish woman who reported being raped by WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange in 2010 says “today we got great news.”

Elisabeth Massi Fritz says the decision by Swedish authorities to open the rape case against Assange “signals that no one stands above the law,” and that “the legal system in Sweden doesn’t give a special treatment to anyone.”

Massi Fritz told reporters Monday she spoke with her client, who is not named, by phone. She said her client “feels great gratitude.”


In November, when the case was closed, she called on the Swedish authorities to press charges and have him extradited to Sweden.
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Postby Galloism » Sun Feb 16, 2020 12:13 pm

Gravlen wrote:
Galloism wrote:You mean after the women in question said he wasn't a rapist in their original statement, and that statement was changed by police?

The woman in question, S.W., disputes this. She has upheld her complaint, and is still maintaining that she was raped.

If this all was manufactured by the police, why would she still be saying that today?

Galloism wrote:I mean, maybe he is. But nobody thinks so, including the women in question, or the government who originally charged him.

This is false.

Back in May 2019, the woman hailed the news that Swedish authorities were reopening the case after Assange was ejected from the Embassy.
The lawyer for a Swedish woman who reported being raped by WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange in 2010 says “today we got great news.”

Elisabeth Massi Fritz says the decision by Swedish authorities to open the rape case against Assange “signals that no one stands above the law,” and that “the legal system in Sweden doesn’t give a special treatment to anyone.”

Massi Fritz told reporters Monday she spoke with her client, who is not named, by phone. She said her client “feels great gratitude.”


In November, when the case was closed, she called on the Swedish authorities to press charges and have him extradited to Sweden.

Huh, interesting that's not in their report. It's also interesting that it conflicts with what happened when SW first reported the incident:

On Aug. 20, 2010, a woman named S. W. entered a Stockholm police station together with a second woman named A. A. The first woman, S. W. said she had had consensual sex with Julian Assange, but he had not been wearing a condom. She said she was now concerned that she could be infected with HIV and wanted to know if she could force Assange to take an HIV test. She said she was really worried. The police wrote down her statement and immediately informed public prosecutors. Even before questioning could be completed, S. W. was informed that Assange would be arrested on suspicion of rape. S. W. was shocked and refused to continue with questioning. While still in the police station, she wrote a text message to a friend saying that she didn’t want to incriminate Assange, that she just wanted him to take an HIV test, but the police were apparently interested in «getting their hands on him.»


But I'll correct the post.
Last edited by Galloism on Sun Feb 16, 2020 12:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
The Parkus Empire: Being serious on NSG is like wearing a suit to a nude beach.
New Kereptica: Since power is changed energy over time, an increase in power would mean, in this case, an increase in energy. As energy is equivalent to mass and the density of the government is static, the volume of the government must increase.


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Postby Gravlen » Sun Feb 16, 2020 12:22 pm

Galloism wrote:This is not some random conspiracy theorist.

However, he is creating a conspiracy instead of actually looking at the evidence. He says "S.W. never accused Julian Assange of rape." That's like saying that if someone says "he beat me senseless and proceeded to have sex with me against my will" they didn't accuse someone of rape - because they didn't use the word 'rape'.

She accused him of an act which is defined as rape under swedish law, namely penetrating her sexually while she was asleep-. That means that she accused him of rape.

His view that giving diplomatic assurances to not extradite are a routine international practice has contradicted by experts in international law before, and doesn't make sense.

Example:
Three: “Sweden should guarantee that there be no extradition to USA”

It would not be legally possible for Swedish government to give any guarantee about a future extradition, and nor would it have any binding effect on the Swedish legal system in the event of a future extradition request.

By asking for this 'guarantee', Assange is asking the impossible, as he probably knows. Under international law, all extradition requests have to be dealt with on their merits and in accordance with the applicable law; and any final word on an extradition would (quite properly) be with an independent Swedish court, and not the government giving the purported 'guarantee'.

Also Sweden (like the United Kingdom) is bound by EU and ECHR law not to extradite in circumstances where there is any risk of the death penalty or torture. There would be no extradition to the United States in such circumstances.


There is much that can be said about the Assange case, but for a supposed legal expert to start off with claiming it was all fabricated despite what the victims are claiming to this day - well, I don't know if I have any time for his fantasies.
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Postby Galloism » Sun Feb 16, 2020 12:32 pm

Gravlen wrote:
Galloism wrote:This is not some random conspiracy theorist.

However, he is creating a conspiracy instead of actually looking at the evidence. He says "S.W. never accused Julian Assange of rape." That's like saying that if someone says "he beat me senseless and proceeded to have sex with me against my will" they didn't accuse someone of rape - because they didn't use the word 'rape'.

She accused him of an act which is defined as rape under swedish law, namely penetrating her sexually while she was asleep-. That means that she accused him of rape.

His view that giving diplomatic assurances to not extradite are a routine international practice has contradicted by experts in international law before, and doesn't make sense.

Example:
Three: “Sweden should guarantee that there be no extradition to USA”

It would not be legally possible for Swedish government to give any guarantee about a future extradition, and nor would it have any binding effect on the Swedish legal system in the event of a future extradition request.

By asking for this 'guarantee', Assange is asking the impossible, as he probably knows. Under international law, all extradition requests have to be dealt with on their merits and in accordance with the applicable law; and any final word on an extradition would (quite properly) be with an independent Swedish court, and not the government giving the purported 'guarantee'.

Also Sweden (like the United Kingdom) is bound by EU and ECHR law not to extradite in circumstances where there is any risk of the death penalty or torture. There would be no extradition to the United States in such circumstances.


There is much that can be said about the Assange case, but for a supposed legal expert to start off with claiming it was all fabricated despite what the victims are claiming to this day - well, I don't know if I have any time for his fantasies.

Such diplomatic guarantees are commonplace, according to the expert.
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
The Parkus Empire: Being serious on NSG is like wearing a suit to a nude beach.
New Kereptica: Since power is changed energy over time, an increase in power would mean, in this case, an increase in energy. As energy is equivalent to mass and the density of the government is static, the volume of the government must increase.


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Postby Gravlen » Sun Feb 16, 2020 12:32 pm

Galloism wrote:EDIT: I've been corrected by Gravlen that although the original statement didn't include anything about a rape until changed by police, that woman in question now insists there was a rape, despite originally claiming to have had consensual sex without a condom and just wanting an HIV test from Assange, and walking out when police attempted to classify it as a rape, followed by refusing to cooperate, as the article shows. Only the government now thinks there's no evidence of a crime.

This also isn't accurate.

There were two women. One was woken up by Assange having unprotected sex with her. She went to the police to force him to have an HIV test because he didn't use protection. She never claimed it was consensual sex when he penetrated her while she slept, even if she didn't think of it as rape to begin with.

She walked out first, shocked to learn that Assange might be prosecuted, but she returned and cooperated with the police and have since pushed for him to be extradited and to stand trial. Saying she refused to cooperate is misleading.

The government doesn't think there's no evidence of a crime. However, they don't think there's sufficient evidence to secure a conviction.

This is what the government said:
The preliminary investigation concerning allegations against Julian Assange was resumed on 13 May 2019 after Assange left the Ecuadorian embassy in London. The investigation relates to a suspected rape committed in August 2010. A number of investigative measures have been conducted since May, largely in the form of witness interviews. The preliminary investigation has now been discontinued, the motive for which is that the evidence has weakened considerably due to the long period of time that has elapsed since the events in question.

"I would like to emphasise that the injured party has submitted a credible and reliable version of events. Her statements have been coherent, extensive and detailed; however, my overall assessment is that the evidential situation has been weakened to such an extent that that there is no longer any reason to continue the investigation," says Eva-Marie Persson, Deputy Director of Public Prosecution.
EnragedMaldivians wrote:That's preposterous. Gravlens's not a white nationalist; Gravlen's a penguin.

Unio de Sovetaj Socialismaj Respublikoj wrote:There is no use arguing the definition of murder with someone who has a picture of a penguin with a chainsaw as their nations flag.

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Gravlen
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Postby Gravlen » Sun Feb 16, 2020 12:43 pm

Galloism wrote:
Gravlen wrote:However, he is creating a conspiracy instead of actually looking at the evidence. He says "S.W. never accused Julian Assange of rape." That's like saying that if someone says "he beat me senseless and proceeded to have sex with me against my will" they didn't accuse someone of rape - because they didn't use the word 'rape'.

She accused him of an act which is defined as rape under swedish law, namely penetrating her sexually while she was asleep-. That means that she accused him of rape.

His view that giving diplomatic assurances to not extradite are a routine international practice has contradicted by experts in international law before, and doesn't make sense.

Example:
Three: “Sweden should guarantee that there be no extradition to USA”

It would not be legally possible for Swedish government to give any guarantee about a future extradition, and nor would it have any binding effect on the Swedish legal system in the event of a future extradition request.

By asking for this 'guarantee', Assange is asking the impossible, as he probably knows. Under international law, all extradition requests have to be dealt with on their merits and in accordance with the applicable law; and any final word on an extradition would (quite properly) be with an independent Swedish court, and not the government giving the purported 'guarantee'.

Also Sweden (like the United Kingdom) is bound by EU and ECHR law not to extradite in circumstances where there is any risk of the death penalty or torture. There would be no extradition to the United States in such circumstances.


There is much that can be said about the Assange case, but for a supposed legal expert to start off with claiming it was all fabricated despite what the victims are claiming to this day - well, I don't know if I have any time for his fantasies.

Such diplomatic guarantees are commonplace, according to the expert.

Yet this is disputed by legal experts, as showed above.

Here's two more:
Pål Wrange, Professor of international law
Ecuador asked for guarantees from the Swedish Government that Assange not be extradited. This has been the subject of a fairly heated debate between David Allen Green of the New Statesman and Glenn Grenwald of the Guardian. To put it shortly, Green is right, but his argument can be misinterpreted (no need to develop that here, though). As Klamberg has explained in his blog post on the Swedish extradition procedure, the Government always makes the final decision. However – and this is a very important caveat – even if the Government has leeway under national law, it is bound by international law. Both the Swedish and the UK Governments have extradition agreements with the US, and these agreements provide that extradition shall take place, if the legal requirements are met. Hence, the Government could not provide a guarantee, without potentially violating an international obligatoin.


Mark Klamberg, Professor in International Law
As I understand, Assange wants the Swedish Government to guarantee that it will not grant extradition to the US. The US has not made any request to the Sweden on this matter. In other words, Assange wants the Swedish Government to pledge to use its veto power in relation to a non-existing request and before the Prosecutor-General and the Supreme Court has evaluated this non-existing request. There is nothing in the extradition of criminal offences act that deals with this scenario, but it would depart from established practice. Cameron and et. al write in a general way about this in their book "International Criminal Law from a Swedish Perspective", Intersentia, 2011, p. 171.


There can of course be differences of opinion in law, but, as I indicated above, when it comes to people who make up conspiracy theories instead of sticking with the facts, they quickly lose credibility in my eyes.
EnragedMaldivians wrote:That's preposterous. Gravlens's not a white nationalist; Gravlen's a penguin.

Unio de Sovetaj Socialismaj Respublikoj wrote:There is no use arguing the definition of murder with someone who has a picture of a penguin with a chainsaw as their nations flag.

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Chan Island
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Postby Chan Island » Sun Feb 16, 2020 12:43 pm

Whether he is guilty or not, it must be said that the way the authorities have treated him in prison has been unconscionable. At the very least he shouldn't be in solitary confinement the whole damn time.
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Conserative Morality wrote:"It's not time yet" is a tactic used by reactionaries in every era. "It's not time for democracy, it's not time for capitalism, it's not time for emancipation." Of course it's not time. It's never time, not on its own. You make it time. If you're under fire in the no-man's land of WW1, you start digging a foxhole even if the ideal time would be when you *aren't* being bombarded, because once you wait for it to be 'time', other situations will need your attention, assuming you survive that long. If the fields aren't furrowed, plow them. If the iron is not hot, make it so. If society is not ready, change it.

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Galloism
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Postby Galloism » Sun Feb 16, 2020 12:46 pm

Gravlen wrote:
Galloism wrote:Such diplomatic guarantees are commonplace, according to the expert.

Yet this is disputed by legal experts, as showed above.

Here's two more:
Pål Wrange, Professor of international law
Ecuador asked for guarantees from the Swedish Government that Assange not be extradited. This has been the subject of a fairly heated debate between David Allen Green of the New Statesman and Glenn Grenwald of the Guardian. To put it shortly, Green is right, but his argument can be misinterpreted (no need to develop that here, though). As Klamberg has explained in his blog post on the Swedish extradition procedure, the Government always makes the final decision. However – and this is a very important caveat – even if the Government has leeway under national law, it is bound by international law. Both the Swedish and the UK Governments have extradition agreements with the US, and these agreements provide that extradition shall take place, if the legal requirements are met. Hence, the Government could not provide a guarantee, without potentially violating an international obligatoin.


Mark Klamberg, Professor in International Law
As I understand, Assange wants the Swedish Government to guarantee that it will not grant extradition to the US. The US has not made any request to the Sweden on this matter. In other words, Assange wants the Swedish Government to pledge to use its veto power in relation to a non-existing request and before the Prosecutor-General and the Supreme Court has evaluated this non-existing request. There is nothing in the extradition of criminal offences act that deals with this scenario, but it would depart from established practice. Cameron and et. al write in a general way about this in their book "International Criminal Law from a Swedish Perspective", Intersentia, 2011, p. 171.


There can of course be differences of opinion in law, but, as I indicated above, when it comes to people who make up conspiracy theories instead of sticking with the facts, they quickly lose credibility in my eyes.

So the difference here is a treaty exists, where as in the France/Kazakhstan example, it doesn’t?
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
The Parkus Empire: Being serious on NSG is like wearing a suit to a nude beach.
New Kereptica: Since power is changed energy over time, an increase in power would mean, in this case, an increase in energy. As energy is equivalent to mass and the density of the government is static, the volume of the government must increase.


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Fartsniffage
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Postby Fartsniffage » Sun Feb 16, 2020 12:52 pm

Chan Island wrote:Whether he is guilty or not, it must be said that the way the authorities have treated him in prison has been unconscionable. At the very least he shouldn't be in solitary confinement the whole damn time.


He probably shouldn't be in a category A prison, but he pissed off the judiciary so that kind of thing happens.

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Galloism
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Postby Galloism » Sun Feb 16, 2020 12:56 pm

Fartsniffage wrote:
Chan Island wrote:Whether he is guilty or not, it must be said that the way the authorities have treated him in prison has been unconscionable. At the very least he shouldn't be in solitary confinement the whole damn time.


He probably shouldn't be in a category A prison, but he pissed off the judiciary so that kind of thing happens.

I must point out how fucked it is that we can point to a man being psychologically tortured, denied effective access to his attorney or the evidence against him, and we can just say “he pissed off the judiciary. It happens.”

I’m not saying you’re fucked, but the fact that we accept that is fucked.
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
The Parkus Empire: Being serious on NSG is like wearing a suit to a nude beach.
New Kereptica: Since power is changed energy over time, an increase in power would mean, in this case, an increase in energy. As energy is equivalent to mass and the density of the government is static, the volume of the government must increase.


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Fartsniffage
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Postby Fartsniffage » Sun Feb 16, 2020 12:59 pm

Galloism wrote:
Fartsniffage wrote:
He probably shouldn't be in a category A prison, but he pissed off the judiciary so that kind of thing happens.

I must point out how fucked it is that we can point to a man being psychologically tortured, denied effective access to his attorney or the evidence against him, and we can just say “he pissed off the judiciary. It happens.”

I’m not saying you’re fucked, but the fact that we accept that is fucked.


Those conditions aren't standard at a cat A facility. But this is Belmarsh, Britains Guantanamo Bay, so all bets are off.

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Galloism
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Postby Galloism » Sun Feb 16, 2020 1:00 pm

Fartsniffage wrote:
Galloism wrote:I must point out how fucked it is that we can point to a man being psychologically tortured, denied effective access to his attorney or the evidence against him, and we can just say “he pissed off the judiciary. It happens.”

I’m not saying you’re fucked, but the fact that we accept that is fucked.


Those conditions aren't standard at a cat A facility. But this is Belmarsh, Britains Guantanamo Bay, so all bets are off.

You know, you should stop imitating us.
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
The Parkus Empire: Being serious on NSG is like wearing a suit to a nude beach.
New Kereptica: Since power is changed energy over time, an increase in power would mean, in this case, an increase in energy. As energy is equivalent to mass and the density of the government is static, the volume of the government must increase.


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The Holy Therns
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Postby The Holy Therns » Sun Feb 16, 2020 1:09 pm

Wow, there's a lot here. I'm going to need to bookmark this and go through it slow and steady.
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Albrenia
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Postby Albrenia » Sun Feb 16, 2020 1:28 pm

I personally dislike Assange, but mistreating prisoners and torture are unacceptable to decent society... or at least they should be. Not that there's much I can personally do about it, but I do think it is morally wrong.

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Galloism
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Postby Galloism » Sun Feb 16, 2020 1:28 pm

Couple of extra things since this is coming up -

The queen has vowed not to get involved in the case as she wishes to remain non political, thereby implying this is a matter of politics, not justice.

https://www.rt.com/uk/480974-queen-eliz ... n-assange/

Jeremy Corbyn has called for the extradition to be halted - even Boris agrees the extradition treaty is unbalanced, although he didn’t comment on assange specifically.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 31376.html

The parliamentary assembly for the council of Europe has also called for his release:

https://independentaustralia.net/politi ... ange,13565
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
The Parkus Empire: Being serious on NSG is like wearing a suit to a nude beach.
New Kereptica: Since power is changed energy over time, an increase in power would mean, in this case, an increase in energy. As energy is equivalent to mass and the density of the government is static, the volume of the government must increase.


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Gravlen
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Postby Gravlen » Sun Feb 16, 2020 1:44 pm

Galloism wrote:
Gravlen wrote:Yet this is disputed by legal experts, as showed above.

Here's two more:
Pål Wrange, Professor of international law
Ecuador asked for guarantees from the Swedish Government that Assange not be extradited. This has been the subject of a fairly heated debate between David Allen Green of the New Statesman and Glenn Grenwald of the Guardian. To put it shortly, Green is right, but his argument can be misinterpreted (no need to develop that here, though). As Klamberg has explained in his blog post on the Swedish extradition procedure, the Government always makes the final decision. However – and this is a very important caveat – even if the Government has leeway under national law, it is bound by international law. Both the Swedish and the UK Governments have extradition agreements with the US, and these agreements provide that extradition shall take place, if the legal requirements are met. Hence, the Government could not provide a guarantee, without potentially violating an international obligatoin.


Mark Klamberg, Professor in International Law
As I understand, Assange wants the Swedish Government to guarantee that it will not grant extradition to the US. The US has not made any request to the Sweden on this matter. In other words, Assange wants the Swedish Government to pledge to use its veto power in relation to a non-existing request and before the Prosecutor-General and the Supreme Court has evaluated this non-existing request. There is nothing in the extradition of criminal offences act that deals with this scenario, but it would depart from established practice. Cameron and et. al write in a general way about this in their book "International Criminal Law from a Swedish Perspective", Intersentia, 2011, p. 171.


There can of course be differences of opinion in law, but, as I indicated above, when it comes to people who make up conspiracy theories instead of sticking with the facts, they quickly lose credibility in my eyes.

So the difference here is a treaty exists, where as in the France/Kazakhstan example, it doesn’t?

A treaty exists between Sweden and the US. That's both relevant and important.

I don't know if there is a treaty between France and Kazakhstan or not. Melzer only presented a hypothetical, and didn't make any legal argument for why it should be that way he claims it should be. His full legal argument is, and I quote, "of course".
EnragedMaldivians wrote:That's preposterous. Gravlens's not a white nationalist; Gravlen's a penguin.

Unio de Sovetaj Socialismaj Respublikoj wrote:There is no use arguing the definition of murder with someone who has a picture of a penguin with a chainsaw as their nations flag.

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Fartsniffage
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Postby Fartsniffage » Sun Feb 16, 2020 1:46 pm

Galloism wrote:Couple of extra things since this is coming up -

The queen has vowed not to get involved in the case as she wishes to remain non political, thereby implying this is a matter of politics, not justice.

https://www.rt.com/uk/480974-queen-eliz ... n-assange/

Jeremy Corbyn has called for the extradition to be halted - even Boris agrees the extradition treaty is unbalanced, although he didn’t comment on assange specifically.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 31376.html

The parliamentary assembly for the council of Europe has also called for his release:

https://independentaustralia.net/politi ... ange,13565


That RT article is bullshit. Lizzy doesn't get involved with anything to do with justice or politics. The matter is political because it involved an international treaty but that doesn't mean what RT wants it to mean.

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Rojava Free State
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Postby Rojava Free State » Sun Feb 16, 2020 1:46 pm

Damn, I can already tell this thread is gonna get ugly.

Ight, imma head out
Rojava Free State wrote:Listen yall. I'm only gonna say it once but I want you to remember it. This ain't a world fit for good men. It seems like you gotta be monstrous just to make it. Gotta have a little bit of darkness within you just to survive. You gotta stoop low everyday it seems like. Stoop all the way down to the devil in these times. And then one day you look in the mirror and you realize that you ain't you anymore. You're just another monster, and thanks to your actions, someone else will eventually become as warped and twisted as you. Never forget that the best of us are just the best of a bad lot. Being at the top of a pile of feces doesn't make you anything but shit like the rest. Never forget that.

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Gravlen
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Postby Gravlen » Sun Feb 16, 2020 1:51 pm

Galloism wrote:
Fartsniffage wrote:
He probably shouldn't be in a category A prison, but he pissed off the judiciary so that kind of thing happens.

I must point out how fucked it is that we can point to a man being psychologically tortured, denied effective access to his attorney or the evidence against him, and we can just say “he pissed off the judiciary. It happens.”

I’m not saying you’re fucked, but the fact that we accept that is fucked.

Disregarding the bad parts of Melzer's argument - which is most of it, mind - there are things he bring up which are causes for concern. The conditions in Belmarsh are problematic in general, and being denied access to legal representation is something to be alarmed about.

This isn't limited to Assange, however, nor does it make it better that Assange happens to suffer from it either.
EnragedMaldivians wrote:That's preposterous. Gravlens's not a white nationalist; Gravlen's a penguin.

Unio de Sovetaj Socialismaj Respublikoj wrote:There is no use arguing the definition of murder with someone who has a picture of a penguin with a chainsaw as their nations flag.

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Ostroeuropa
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Postby Ostroeuropa » Sun Feb 16, 2020 1:52 pm

Solitary confinement is torture yes. I'm unsure on the rest, but Assanges own statements indicate to me that he is guilty of rape. The allegations of procedural problems with his access to a lawyer and so on are also concerning, but I don't think an innocent man has been jailed here. A guilty man has been denied due process (allegedly, i'm unsure) and is being tortured (I'm inclined to believe this.).

Both of those are concerning issues with the justice system in many countries writ large, solitary confinement and lack of proper enforcement of access to a lawyer. They are issues that should be taken seriously. I'm more concerned for their impact on the population as a whole and their prevalence than Assange particularly.

As a celebrity case it could be useful to use him to advance the cause of fighting those injustices, however I think he is sufficiently toxic that a better example could be found.
Last edited by Ostroeuropa on Sun Feb 16, 2020 1:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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There is an out of control trolley speeding towards Jeremy Bentham, who is tied to the track. You can pull the lever to cause the trolley to switch tracks, but on the other track is Immanuel Kant. Bentham is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Critique of Pure Reason. Kant is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Principles of Moral Legislation. Both men are shouting at you that they have recently started to reconsider their ethical stances.

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