NationStates

The Free Joy State wrote:

Pilipinas and Malaya wrote:
Isn’t that pretty much the textbook definition of agnosticism?

Technically, there are -- at least according to the somewhat-knowing-Wiki -- several types of Agnosticism:

• Strong Agnosticism: The firm belief that God's existence is unknowable, one way or the other, as there can never be objective proof.
• Weak Agnosticism: Not knowing whether God or not exists, but withholding judgment until such time as evidence, if available, becomes available.
• Apathetic Agnosticism: Not knowing whether or not God exists and not finding the question of interest, as their existence has little impact on human affairs.

One can also be an agnostic theist, which is believing in God, but not claiming surety that God exists; it is also sometimes defined as knowing God exists but -- as God is unknowable -- not claiming to know the nature or essence of that God.

I identify as apathetic agnostic.

I guess my own beliefs would best be described as a sort of 'weak' Atheism. I don't think a Higher Power exists, but I'm open (even hoping some days) to being wrong.

I'm more certain about certain religions in particular being incorrect due to facts which cast doubt upon them, such as the fact the sun keeps rising even without hearts being cut out for the Rain God routinely anymore... to my knowledge.

My belief is that if God/Gods exist they don't interact with the world (and as such irrelevant), are malevolent but rather sneaky or are very crap at their job. Or there are none. Probably the latter.

Atheism has not eliminated tribalism, nor can it do so. It has made the world a better place by making people more scientifically minded and so on however.

Ostroeuropa wrote:Atheism has not eliminated tribalism, nor can it do so. It has made the world a better place by making people more scientifically minded and so on however.

This is your reminder that most great scientists were highly religious.

The Emerald Legion wrote:

Ostroeuropa wrote:Atheism has not eliminated tribalism, nor can it do so. It has made the world a better place by making people more scientifically minded and so on however.

This is your reminder that most great scientists were highly religious.

Most people in the past in general were religious. We can't base our opinions on atheism off of a time period when you weren't even allowed to be an atheist, or a non Christian in Europe in general.

The Emerald Legion wrote:

Ostroeuropa wrote:Atheism has not eliminated tribalism, nor can it do so. It has made the world a better place by making people more scientifically minded and so on however.

This is your reminder that most great scientists were highly religious.

And around 60% of all Nobel Science Prize Winners were Christian.

Ostroeuropa wrote:Atheism has not eliminated tribalism, nor can it do so. It has made the world a better place by making people more scientifically minded and so on however.

Except it hasn’t. People aren’t any more scientifically minded now than they were a hundred years ago, we just discovered new things in the natural progress of discovery

Europa Undivided wrote:

The Emerald Legion wrote:
This is your reminder that most great scientists were highly religious.

And around 60% of all Nobel Science Prize Winners were Christian.

Considering that most of Nobel Prizes were won by either Americans or Europeans, that both America and Europe are predominantly Christian (especially when most of Nobel Prizes were given out), there's nothing strange about it. Actually it's pretty low, statistic for Europe is 72% Christian in 2010. It was even higher in the past and for USA.

Aureumterra wrote:

Ostroeuropa wrote:Atheism has not eliminated tribalism, nor can it do so. It has made the world a better place by making people more scientifically minded and so on however.

Except it hasn’t. People aren’t any more scientifically minded now than they were a hundred years ago, we just discovered new things in the natural progress of discovery

There's always gonna be a lot of people who can't understand science. It's why we got rid of religion and just when we were celebrating an end to superstition and insanity, anti vax came along

Rojava Free State wrote:

Aureumterra wrote:Except it hasn’t. People aren’t any more scientifically minded now than they were a hundred years ago, we just discovered new things in the natural progress of discovery

There's always gonna be a lot of people who can't understand science. It's why we got rid of religion and just when we were celebrating an end to superstition and insanity, anti vax came along

Anti vax is more a problem with the internet and the spread of fake news

Aureumterra wrote:

Ostroeuropa wrote:Atheism has not eliminated tribalism, nor can it do so. It has made the world a better place by making people more scientifically minded and so on however.

Except it hasn’t. People aren’t any more scientifically minded now than they were a hundred years ago, we just discovered new things in the natural progress of discovery

Depending on the group we're talking about. During the Dark Ages when most of Europe was illiterate, Muslims and Chinese were responsible for scientific discoveries (some Europeans too, but they were often not appreciated and excommunicated). Later, during the Rennaisance and the Industrial Revolution the torch was transferred to Europe. In XX centuries many scientific discoveries were made by the American and Soviet scientists. By the way, Soviet Union adopted what is known as Scientific Atheism, and I wouldn't say they failed to live up to this name, for example, winning every step of the Space Race except the Moon Landing.

Aureumterra wrote:

Rojava Free State wrote:
There's always gonna be a lot of people who can't understand science. It's why we got rid of religion and just when we were celebrating an end to superstition and insanity, anti vax came along

Anti vax is more a problem with the internet and the spread of fake news

Many of the people who are into anti vax aren't super religious though. Anti vax is a modern superstition and an example of how getting rid of faith doesn't necessarily end pseudoscience

Panslav wrote:

Aureumterra wrote:Except it hasn’t. People aren’t any more scientifically minded now than they were a hundred years ago, we just discovered new things in the natural progress of discovery

Depending on the group we're talking about. During the Dark Ages when most of Europe was illiterate, Muslims and Chinese were responsible for scientific discoveries (some Europeans too, but they were often not appreciated and excommunicated). Later, during the Rennaisance and the Industrial Revolution the torch was transferred to Europe. In XX centuries many scientific discoveries were made by the American and Soviet scientists. By the way, Soviet Union adopted what is known as Scientific Atheism, and I wouldn't say they failed to live up to this name, for example, winning every step of the Space Race except the Moon Landing.

It's too bad they adopted Lysenkoism at one point, one of the most pseudoscientific theories ever.

For more info on lysenkoism, click here: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3Iz86F2LCWQ&t=335s

The Emerald Legion wrote:

Ostroeuropa wrote:Atheism has not eliminated tribalism, nor can it do so. It has made the world a better place by making people more scientifically minded and so on however.

This is your reminder that most great scientists were highly religious.

*cough cough* Blaise Pascal

Great mathematician... yet terrible philosopher

Rojava Free State wrote:

Panslav wrote:
Depending on the group we're talking about. During the Dark Ages when most of Europe was illiterate, Muslims and Chinese were responsible for scientific discoveries (some Europeans too, but they were often not appreciated and excommunicated). Later, during the Rennaisance and the Industrial Revolution the torch was transferred to Europe. In XX centuries many scientific discoveries were made by the American and Soviet scientists. By the way, Soviet Union adopted what is known as Scientific Atheism, and I wouldn't say they failed to live up to this name, for example, winning every step of the Space Race except the Moon Landing.

It's too bad they adopted Lysenkoism at one point, one of the most pseudoscientific theories ever.

For more info on lysenkoism, click here: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3Iz86F2LCWQ&t=335s

I think, Lysekoism was a thing in between 1930s and 1960s? So during much of the Cold War it was't a thing.

Panslav wrote:

Rojava Free State wrote:
It's too bad they adopted Lysenkoism at one point, one of the most pseudoscientific theories ever.

For more info on lysenkoism, click here: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3Iz86F2LCWQ&t=335s

I think, Lysekoism was a thing in between 1930s and 1960s? So during much of the Cold War it was't a thing.

During the Cold War wasn’t much of a thing. But it was very important to the Soviet union. Scientists that taught Mendelian evolution were routinely arrested and executed.

I highly doubt it, humans are just being humans and will find other reasons to bash each other's skulls in in my opinion.

Heck I am a religious person myself but embrace science and reason above religion. There's a large difference between religious fanaticism/extremism and being a normal civil person.

I love conversations with some of my friends trying to explain religion with a view of logic and science (they are mostly atheist/agnostic) and it's a lot of fun to put things in perspective; mostly ending in us all agreeing with both views in general.

In my opinion a healthy mixture of values from religion, science, common sense and civility makes the world a better place.

Kandorith wrote:I highly doubt it, humans are just being humans and will find other reasons to bash each other's skulls in in my opinion.

Heck I am a religious person myself but embrace science and reason above religion. There's a large difference between religious fanaticism/extremism and being a normal civil person.

I love conversations with some of my friends trying to explain religion with a view of logic and science (they are mostly atheist/agnostic) and it's a lot of fun to put things in perspective; mostly ending in us all agreeing with both views in general.

In my opinion a healthy mixture of values from religion, science, common sense and civility makes the world a better place.

The issue that keeps appearing endlessly is this dichotomy of either all religions needing to be good or all religions needing to be bad. In reality not all faiths are created equally. Theyre all probably equally fictitious but I'm more tolerant of peaceful fantasy than violent ones. If you told me I had only two choices and that was an America run by ashanti tribal beliefs and an America run by Islam, I guess I'm getting my wooden mask on and my campfire lit.

Rojava Free State wrote:

Kandorith wrote:I highly doubt it, humans are just being humans and will find other reasons to bash each other's skulls in in my opinion.

Heck I am a religious person myself but embrace science and reason above religion. There's a large difference between religious fanaticism/extremism and being a normal civil person.

I love conversations with some of my friends trying to explain religion with a view of logic and science (they are mostly atheist/agnostic) and it's a lot of fun to put things in perspective; mostly ending in us all agreeing with both views in general.

In my opinion a healthy mixture of values from religion, science, common sense and civility makes the world a better place.

The issue that keeps appearing endlessly is this dichotomy of either all religions needing to be good or all religions needing to be bad. In reality not all faiths are created equally. Theyre all probably equally fictitious but I'm more tolerant of peaceful fantasy than violent ones. If you told me I had only two choices and that was an America run by ashanti tribal beliefs and an America run by Islam, I guess I'm getting my wooden mask on and my campfire lit.

And this is a fair point too.

The most psychotically fanatical Jain in the world is unlikely to pose a threat to anyone. Except possibly themselves.

Rojava Free State wrote:

Kandorith wrote:I highly doubt it, humans are just being humans and will find other reasons to bash each other's skulls in in my opinion.

Heck I am a religious person myself but embrace science and reason above religion. There's a large difference between religious fanaticism/extremism and being a normal civil person.

I love conversations with some of my friends trying to explain religion with a view of logic and science (they are mostly atheist/agnostic) and it's a lot of fun to put things in perspective; mostly ending in us all agreeing with both views in general.

In my opinion a healthy mixture of values from religion, science, common sense and civility makes the world a better place.

The issue that keeps appearing endlessly is this dichotomy of either all religions needing to be good or all religions needing to be bad. In reality not all faiths are created equally. Theyre all probably equally fictitious but I'm more tolerant of peaceful fantasy than violent ones. If you told me I had only two choices and that was an America run by ashanti tribal beliefs and an America run by Islam, I guess I'm getting my wooden mask on and my campfire lit.

I absolutely agree with this too, here I am just sitting wondering why the Shinto "gods" are so weird, other than that I guess I will just find sticks to make a campfire too.

Kandorith wrote:

Rojava Free State wrote:
The issue that keeps appearing endlessly is this dichotomy of either all religions needing to be good or all religions needing to be bad. In reality not all faiths are created equally. Theyre all probably equally fictitious but I'm more tolerant of peaceful fantasy than violent ones. If you told me I had only two choices and that was an America run by ashanti tribal beliefs and an America run by Islam, I guess I'm getting my wooden mask on and my campfire lit.

I absolutely agree with this too, here I am just sitting wondering why the Shinto "gods" are so weird, other than that I guess I will just find sticks to make a campfire too.

I can appreciate any religion that has implied lesbian overtones.

Kandorith wrote:

Rojava Free State wrote:
The issue that keeps appearing endlessly is this dichotomy of either all religions needing to be good or all religions needing to be bad. In reality not all faiths are created equally. Theyre all probably equally fictitious but I'm more tolerant of peaceful fantasy than violent ones. If you told me I had only two choices and that was an America run by ashanti tribal beliefs and an America run by Islam, I guess I'm getting my wooden mask on and my campfire lit.

I absolutely agree with this too, here I am just sitting wondering why the Shinto "gods" are so weird, other than that I guess I will just find sticks to make a campfire too.

After reading a lot of anime over the years, the realization that the shinto stories are as strange makes me realize that the Japanese always had a thing for "what the fuck" stories

For example, the story of a ghost with an eyeball where it's ass should be

To go back, secularism has actually made the world a better place by tempering the excesses of religion, but then atheism (or at least the Nu-Atheist movement of the late 2000's) made secularism worse by introducing a hatred of the humanities.

Neanderthaland wrote:

Rojava Free State wrote:
The issue that keeps appearing endlessly is this dichotomy of either all religions needing to be good or all religions needing to be bad. In reality not all faiths are created equally. Theyre all probably equally fictitious but I'm more tolerant of peaceful fantasy than violent ones. If you told me I had only two choices and that was an America run by ashanti tribal beliefs and an America run by Islam, I guess I'm getting my wooden mask on and my campfire lit.

And this is a fair point too.

The most psychotically fanatical Jain in the world is unlikely to pose a threat to anyone. Except possibly themselves.

Me: aight, maybe we should try this a little differently. Here comes the bi-plane!

The Jain in a hospital bed: NO! I WILL NOT EAT CELERY! ALL LIFE IS SACRED! I WOULD RATHER DIE!