Has atheism made the world a better place?

[The Emerald Legion]

Not really. The idea of the spooky scaries and spirits is pretty darn natural.

Animism is the default, even if not inherently formalized.

Animism makes a positive claim. Something that makes a positive claim can't be the default position since it has the burden of proof on it.

You do realize formal logic is often quite illogical itself? Like the thought experiment where movement is impossible, because you would have to, logically speaking, cross half the space of the step. And then half of half that space. And so on. And the number of divisible halves is infinite and so you must either be capable of infinite movement, or not capable of movement at all.

[LimaUniformNovemberAlpha]

Nope, not really:
https://www.christiantoday.com/article/ ... 127465.htm

Mixed bag for depression: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epidemiol ... depression

Notably Islamic countries and Greek and Oriental Orthodox have remarkably lower suicide rates than almost all Western countries: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... icide_rate

Happiness is impossible to measure via polling.

Huh. It's almost as if people who think God will punish them for killing themselves are going to go on living in misery or something.

[Eglaecia]

He kinda had to pose as a Christian to control Germany.

ANYONE can fake religious beliefs. NO one knows whose religious beliefs are real and whose are fake. The point is moot.

A politician's remarks in private are far more telling of their outlook than their public remarks. Hitler detested Christianity and every religion for that matter. They were all just tools for him. I don't think he was an atheist either, just a power-hungry narcissist.

[VoVoDoCo]

For fuck's sake. π isn't infinite.

Questionable. One man found 2.7 Trillion digits, but didnt say that was the precise point where it ended. Also yes pi isnt infinite, but it is an infinite decimal. Which just means the decimal digits go on for what "so far" is percieved to be infinite. Though mathematically it becomes negligable.

I’m bad at math, so somebody correct me if I’m wrong, but since Pi is 3.14 blah blah blah, doesn’t mean that The value of pi, regardless of how many digits it has, is smaller than four and bigger than three? Wouldn’t that make it not infinite?

[Celritannia]

Nope, not really:
https://www.christiantoday.com/article/ ... 127465.htm

Mixed bag for depression: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epidemiol ... depression

Notably Islamic countries and Greek and Oriental Orthodox have remarkably lower suicide rates than almost all Western countries: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... icide_rate

Happiness is impossible to measure via polling.

Let's remember that the Nordic Countries have longer winters so seasonal depression is a major issue.

As for the Islamic countries, countries, they are not the happiest countries for women or LGBT+ people. They are more strict and have less freedoms.
Even Orthodox countries are less women and LGBT friendly, and tend to be less free as well.

So the countries that are least religious are the happiest countries for all peoples and not for a specific or select group. With access to better medicine, education, and welfare, the people as a whole fare a lot better.

[VoVoDoCo]

ANYONE can fake religious beliefs. NO one knows whose religious beliefs are real and whose are fake. The point is moot.

A politician's remarks in private are far more telling of their outlook than their public remarks. Hitler detested Christianity and every religion for that matter. They were all just tools for him. I don't think he was an atheist either, just a power-hungry narcissist.

Can you provide evidence that he actually wasn’t a Christian?

[Celritannia]

Considering the happiest, freest, and most advanced counties are more secular. Compared to the most religious nations that are more impoverished and use it as an escape.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/142727/rel ... tions.aspx

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/do-countr ... -1.1310451

Meanwhile atheist/irreligious people have worse mental health than religious people.

Sources please.

[United Muscovite Nations]

Mixed bag for depression: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epidemiol ... depression

Notably Islamic countries and Greek and Oriental Orthodox have remarkably lower suicide rates than almost all Western countries: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... icide_rate

Happiness is impossible to measure via polling.

Let's remember that the Nordic Countries have longer winters so seasonal depression is a major issue.

As for the Islamic countries, countries, they are not the happiest countries for women or LGBT+ people. They are more strict and have less freedoms.
Even Orthodox countries are less women and LGBT friendly, and tend to be less free as well.

So the countries that are least religious are the happiest countries for all peoples and not for a specific or select group. With access to better medicine, education, and welfare, the people as a whole fare a lot better.

Yet European countries continue to have much higher suicide rates than those countries. Curious. European suicide rates are actually higher than global average and, unlike the rest of the world, driven almost entirely by male suicide, so we could argue it's unfair to a much larger section of the population.

[Eglaecia]

Mixed bag for depression: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epidemiol ... depression

Notably Islamic countries and Greek and Oriental Orthodox have remarkably lower suicide rates than almost all Western countries: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... icide_rate

Happiness is impossible to measure via polling.

Huh. It's almost as if people who think God will punish them for killing themselves are going to go on living in misery or something.

What a baseless and disrespectful claim.

So the countries that are least religious are the happiest countries for all peoples and not for a specific or select group. With access to better medicine, education, and welfare, the people as a whole fare a lot better.

Wow so the problem with happiness isn't religion but..................... lack of (or poor) social services and low economic development.

[United Muscovite Nations]

A politician's remarks in private are far more telling of their outlook than their public remarks. Hitler detested Christianity and every religion for that matter. They were all just tools for him. I don't think he was an atheist either, just a power-hungry narcissist.

Can you provide evidence that he actually wasn’t a Christian?

Generalplan Ost included plans to completely destroy religious institutions.

[Alvecia]

Why is 2+2 4 instead of 5? Why is a Pi infinite?

For fuck's sake. π isn't infinite.

If you listen to the bible, π is 3

[Cekoviu]

For fuck's sake. π isn't infinite.

Questionable. One man found 2.7 Trillion digits, but didnt say that was the precise point where it ended. Also yes pi isnt infinite, but it is an infinite decimal. Which just means the decimal digits go on for what "so far" is percieved to be infinite. Though mathematically it becomes negligable.

There are an infinite number of characters if one attempts to render the precise value of π. π is finite.

[Celritannia]

Let's remember that the Nordic Countries have longer winters so seasonal depression is a major issue.

As for the Islamic countries, countries, they are not the happiest countries for women or LGBT+ people. They are more strict and have less freedoms.
Even Orthodox countries are less women and LGBT friendly, and tend to be less free as well.

So the countries that are least religious are the happiest countries for all peoples and not for a specific or select group. With access to better medicine, education, and welfare, the people as a whole fare a lot better.

Yet European countries continue to have much higher suicide rates than those countries. Curious. European suicide rates are actually higher than global average and, unlike the rest of the world, driven almost entirely by male suicide, so we could argue it's unfair to a much larger section of the population.

What's unfair? That people aren't forced to believe in something?
Again, when the LGBT people are still persecuted in Islamic and Orthodox countries, I countries, and women are still restricted, I cannot say that those people are happy, can you?

Also, male suicide is nothing to do with irreligious, there are far more factors to it.

[Eglaecia]

Meanwhile atheist/irreligious people have worse mental health than religious people.

Sources please.

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/070674370905400502

Depression - "Prior to 2000, more than 100 quantitative studies had examined the relation between religion and depression. Among 93 observational studies, two-thirds found significantly lower rates of depressive disorder or fewer depressive symptoms among the more religious."

Suicide - "In Koenig et al’s42 systematic review of research conducted before 2000, 68 studies were identified that examined the religion–suicide relation. Among those studies, 57 found fewer suicides or more negative attitudes toward suicide among the more religious, 9 showed no relation, and 2 reported mixed results. Seven of the studies were conducted in Canada, and of those, 5 found fewer suicides or more negative attitudes toward suicide among the more religious, 1 found no association, and 1 reported mixed results."

[United Muscovite Nations]

Yet European countries continue to have much higher suicide rates than those countries. Curious. European suicide rates are actually higher than global average and, unlike the rest of the world, driven almost entirely by male suicide, so we could argue it's unfair to a much larger section of the population.

What's unfair? That people aren't forced to believe in something?
Again, when the LGBT people are still persecuted in Islamic and Orthodox countries, I countries, and women are still restricted, I cannot say that those people are happy, can you?

Also, male suicide is nothing to do with irreligious, there are far more factors to it.

There is clearly something unfair about European society when men commit suicide at almost 4x the rate of women.

[Celritannia]

Huh. It's almost as if people who think God will punish them for killing themselves are going to go on living in misery or something.

What a baseless and disrespectful claim.

So the countries that are least religious are the happiest countries for all peoples and not for a specific or select group. With access to better medicine, education, and welfare, the people as a whole fare a lot better.

Wow so the problem with happiness isn't religion but..................... lack of (or poor) social services and low economic development.

When you have better education, access to science, medicine, and welfare, you stop believing in things that don;t exist because it is humanity that helps other humans, not the supernatural.
So better education means better reasoning, which leads to questioning things, and then removing religion as a necessity.

The most religious countries tend to be the poorest and use religion as a psychological escape and coping mechanism.
I provided evidence of this to you in the Christian thread and you refused to accept it, so to save both of us some time, don;t respond as you prefer to deny the evidence.'

[Celritannia]

What's unfair? That people aren't forced to believe in something?
Again, when the LGBT people are still persecuted in Islamic and Orthodox countries, I countries, and women are still restricted, I cannot say that those people are happy, can you?

Also, male suicide is nothing to do with irreligious, there are far more factors to it.

There is clearly something unfair about European society when men commit suicide at almost 4x the rate of women.

There probably is, but it certainly isn't religion, and it's a topic for a separate thread.

[Eglaecia]

A politician's remarks in private are far more telling of their outlook than their public remarks. Hitler detested Christianity and every religion for that matter. They were all just tools for him. I don't think he was an atheist either, just a power-hungry narcissist.

Can you provide evidence that he actually wasn’t a Christian?

"Around 1937, when Hitler heard that at the instigation of the party and the SS vast numbers of his followers had left the church because it was obstinately opposing his plans, he nevertheless ordered his chief associates, above all Goering and Goebbels, to remain members of the church. He too would remain a member of the Catholic Church he said, although he had no real attachment to it. And in fact he remained in the church until his suicide." - his confidant, Albert Speer

""Once I have settled my other problem," [Hitler] occasionally declared, "I'll have my reckoning with the church. I'll have it reeling on the ropes." But Bormann did not want this reckoning postponed ... he would take out a document from his pocket and begin reading passages from a defiant sermon or pastoral letter. Frequently Hitler would become so worked up ... and vowed to punish the offending clergyman eventually ... That he could not immediately retaliate raised him to a white heat ..." - Speer quoting Hitler

"You see, it's been our misfortune to have the wrong religion. Why didn't we have the religion of the Japanese, who regard sacrifice for the fatherland as the highest good? The Mohammedan religion too would have been much more compatible to us than Christianity. Why did it have to be Christianity with its meekness and flabbiness?" - Speer quoting Hitler

I believe Hitler's Table Talks also includes a part where he refers to Christianity as being absurd and a lie.

[Eglaecia]

What a baseless and disrespectful claim.


Wow so the problem with happiness isn't religion but..................... lack of (or poor) social services and low economic development.

When you have better education, access to science, medicine, and welfare, you stop believing in things that don;t exist because it is humanity that helps other humans, not the supernatural.
So better education means better reasoning, which leads to questioning things, and then removing religion as a necessity.

The most religious countries tend to be the poorest and use religion as a psychological escape and coping mechanism.
I provided evidence of this to you in the Christian thread and you refused to accept it, so to save both of us some time, don;t respond as you prefer to deny the evidence.'

No you didn't, stop lying. You drew a conclusion that the authors of the evidence you provided didn't make and then proceeded to parrot "its a fact get over it". You're a liar.

[VoVoDoCo]

Can you provide evidence that he actually wasn’t a Christian?

Generalplan Ost included plans to completely destroy religious institutions.

My knowledge of that plan was genocide through starvation, and inspired by the American treatment of Native Americans. Can you cite the part about destroying religious institutions? And of course including the part where the German government would suppress future religions in its pursuit of an atheistic society?

[Celritannia]

Sources please.

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/070674370905400502

Depression - "Prior to 2000, more than 100 quantitative studies had examined the relation between religion and depression. Among 93 observational studies, two-thirds found significantly lower rates of depressive disorder or fewer depressive symptoms among the more religious."

Suicide - "In Koenig et al’s42 systematic review of research conducted before 2000, 68 studies were identified that examined the religion–suicide relation. Among those studies, 57 found fewer suicides or more negative attitudes toward suicide among the more religious, 9 showed no relation, and 2 reported mixed results. Seven of the studies were conducted in Canada, and of those, 5 found fewer suicides or more negative attitudes toward suicide among the more religious, 1 found no association, and 1 reported mixed results."

https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog ... -the-nones

For example, a just-published study by Dr. Joseph Baker at East Tennessee State University indicates that atheists have the best mental health among the "nones," similar to that of the highly-religious. In contrast, "non-affiliated theists" had the poorest mental health.

These findings overlap with a classic British study which found that the "spiritual but not religious" had higher levels of drug dependency, abnormal eating, generalized anxiety disorder, neurotic disorders, and use of psychotropic medication, in comparison with both religious people and people who were "neither religious nor spiritual."

However, emerging evidence suggests that convinced atheists may derive consolation from a certainty of belief in their own solidly-held worldview, leading to similar mental health to the highly-religious.

Such consolation may not be present for those with more uncertain and ambiguous beliefs, such as the "spiritual but not religious" and agnostics.

[Eglaecia]

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/070674370905400502

Depression - "Prior to 2000, more than 100 quantitative studies had examined the relation between religion and depression. Among 93 observational studies, two-thirds found significantly lower rates of depressive disorder or fewer depressive symptoms among the more religious."

Suicide - "In Koenig et al’s42 systematic review of research conducted before 2000, 68 studies were identified that examined the religion–suicide relation. Among those studies, 57 found fewer suicides or more negative attitudes toward suicide among the more religious, 9 showed no relation, and 2 reported mixed results. Seven of the studies were conducted in Canada, and of those, 5 found fewer suicides or more negative attitudes toward suicide among the more religious, 1 found no association, and 1 reported mixed results."

https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog ... -the-nones

For example, a just-published study by Dr. Joseph Baker at East Tennessee State University indicates that atheists have the best mental health among the "nones," similar to that of the highly-religious. In contrast, "non-affiliated theists" had the poorest mental health.

These findings overlap with a classic British study which found that the "spiritual but not religious" had higher levels of drug dependency, abnormal eating, generalized anxiety disorder, neurotic disorders, and use of psychotropic medication, in comparison with both religious people and people who were "neither religious nor spiritual."

However, emerging evidence suggests that convinced atheists may derive consolation from a certainty of belief in their own solidly-held worldview, leading to similar mental health to the highly-religious.

Such consolation may not be present for those with more uncertain and ambiguous beliefs, such as the "spiritual but not religious" and agnostics.

Very selective quoting.

"Much research indicates that religious people as a group tend to have better mental health than the "nones" as a group. This is manifest in various indicators, including lower rates of depression, anxiety, suicide, self-harm, and substance use among the religious."

Atheists have better mental health than other people in the "nones" group but they tend to still have worse mental health than people who identify with a religion. You're continuing to be very dishonest.

[United Muscovite Nations]

Generalplan Ost included plans to completely destroy religious institutions.

My knowledge of that plan was genocide through starvation, and inspired by the American treatment of Native Americans. Can you cite the part about destroying religious institutions? And of course including the part where the German government would suppress future religions in its pursuit of an atheistic society?

We live in an era of the ultimate conflict with Christianity. It is part of the mission of the SS to give the German people in the next half-century the non-Christian ideological foundations on which to lead and shape their lives. This task does not consist solely in overcoming an ideological opponent but must be accompanied at every step by a positive impetus: in this case, that means the reconstruction of the German heritage in the widest and most comprehensive sense.

— Heinrich Himmler, 1937

Himmler saw the main task of his Schutzstaffel (SS) organisation to be that of "acting as the vanguard in overcoming Christianity and restoring a 'Germanic' way of living" in order to prepare for the coming conflict between "humans and subhumans":[60] Longerich wrote that, while the Nazi movement as a whole launched itself against Jews and Communists, "by linking de-Christianisation with re-Germanization, Himmler had provided the SS with a goal and purpose all of its own."[60] He set about making his SS the focus of a "cult of the Teutons".[62]

"after the war it has to be generally solved .... There is, namely, an insoluble opposition between the Christian and a heroic-German world view". - Goebbels

The Party stands on the basis of Positive Christianity, and positive Christianity is National Socialism ... National Socialism is the doing of God's will ... God's will reveals itself in German blood ... Dr Zoellner and [Catholic Bishop of Münster] Count Galen have tried to make clear to me that Christianity consists in faith in Christ as the son of God. That makes me laugh ... No, Christianity is not dependent upon the Apostle's Creed ... True Christianity is represented by the party, and the German people are now called by the party and especially the Fuehrer to a real Christianity ... the Fuehrer is the herald of a new revelation.

— Hans Kerrl, Nazi Minister for Church Affairs, 1937

[The Emerald Legion]

What a baseless and disrespectful claim.


Wow so the problem with happiness isn't religion but..................... lack of (or poor) social services and low economic development.

When you have better education, access to science, medicine, and welfare, you stop believing in things that don;t exist because it is humanity that helps other humans, not the supernatural.
So better education means better reasoning, which leads to questioning things, and then removing religion as a necessity.

The most religious countries tend to be the poorest and use religion as a psychological escape and coping mechanism.
I provided evidence of this to you in the Christian thread and you refused to accept it, so to save both of us some time, don;t respond as you prefer to deny the evidence.'

Which is why Maryland is 69% Christian, 8% some other faith, and 23% Nonreligious.

While less than 10% of the states residents failed to pass high school, and around 45% have an associate's degree if not higher.

[Eglaecia]

When you have better education, access to science, medicine, and welfare, you stop believing in things that don;t exist because it is humanity that helps other humans, not the supernatural.
So better education means better reasoning, which leads to questioning things, and then removing religion as a necessity.

Anyway I'll actually respond to your actual "argument" if it can be called that.
The Church has provided education, medicine and welfare since it was founded, and between the fall of Rome and the enlightenment era was the largest patron of the sciences in the entire world. In fact science historians, contrary to whatever your middle school history class says, have long held that without the Church modern science would not be as far advanced as it is today.