Has atheism made the world a better place?

[Panslav]

Valuing people is better than valuing Magical Sky Daddy

Not really. No. The overvalue of people is why the left has become such a monumental disaster.

Yet the most prosperous countries are some form of very revisionist, but yet still Marxism.

[Arkhane]

Worship is a form of action, by worshipping a God/gods, believers are compelled to action, both good and terrible.

Yet, atheism by itself doesn't call to any action, neither positive, nor negative. Worship is a negative action, by wasting time and resources for no apparent gain.

Not so, faith and worship is one of the main driving forces of change in the world. Claiming that it is always negative and a waste of resources for no apparent gain makes you ignorant of history and the modern world today.

[Panslav]

:!:

Yet, atheism by itself doesn't call to any action, neither positive, nor negative. Worship is a negative action, by wasting time and resources for no apparent gain.

Not so, faith and worship is one of the main driving forces of change in the world. Claiming that it is always negative and a waste of resources for no apparent gain makes you ignorant of history and the modern world today.

Ideology is a better driving force. And much more efficient at that.

[The Emerald Legion]

Worship is a form of action, by worshipping a God/gods, believers are compelled to action, both good and terrible.

Yet, atheism by itself doesn't call to any action, neither positive, nor negative. Worship is a negative action, by wasting time and resources for no apparent gain.

Worshipers do a lot of actions that have readily obvious gain. I hate to Pat the Christian's on the back, but Religious Charity makes up 75% of all charity in the USA.

[Satuga]

:!:

Yet, atheism by itself doesn't call to any action, neither positive, nor negative. Worship is a negative action, by wasting time and resources for no apparent gain.

Not so, faith and worship is one of the main driving forces of change in the world. Claiming that it is always negative and a waste of resources for no apparent gain makes you ignorant of history and the modern world today.

It's negative when you pray to have god heal your child from pneumonia rather than taking them to a doctor that's for sure.

[Arkhane]

:!:

Not so, faith and worship is one of the main driving forces of change in the world. Claiming that it is always negative and a waste of resources for no apparent gain makes you ignorant of history and the modern world today.

Ideology is a better driving force. And much more efficient at that.

Faith is also a form of ideology, and yet you claim it is inefficient. You keep contradicting yourself.

[Panslav]

Ideology is a better driving force. And much more efficient at that.

Faith is also a form of ideology, and yet you claim it is inefficient. You keep contradicting yourself.

Religion is not an ideology. Ideology is a combination of economical and political theories, and I'm pretty sure religion doesn't do that.

[United Muscovite Nations]

Atheism in the modern day is a sort of creed that comes pre-packaged with its own ideology that does make positive claims, for the most part.

Such as?

Usually? Utilitarianism or relativism, liberal individualism, harm principle, etc.

[Arkhane]

:!:

Not so, faith and worship is one of the main driving forces of change in the world. Claiming that it is always negative and a waste of resources for no apparent gain makes you ignorant of history and the modern world today.

It's negative when you pray to have god heal your child from pneumonia rather than taking them to a doctor that's for sure.

But to claim that churches and hospitals do not work together is equally negative. There are many doctors who believe and there are many believers who see doctors as instruments of God's help.

[Alvecia]

Faith is also a form of ideology, and yet you claim it is inefficient. You keep contradicting yourself.

Religion is not an ideology. Ideology is a combination of economical and political theories, and I'm pretty sure religion doesn't do that.

You'd be surprised. Certainly most faiths have at least some form of political slant. Typically one that involves enforcing their faith.

[United Muscovite Nations]

Faith is also a form of ideology, and yet you claim it is inefficient. You keep contradicting yourself.

Religion is not an ideology. Ideology is a combination of economical and political theories, and I'm pretty sure religion doesn't do that.

No it isn't. Ideology is just the central idea of the way you view the world.

[The Emerald Legion]

Faith is also a form of ideology, and yet you claim it is inefficient. You keep contradicting yourself.

Religion is not an ideology. Ideology is a combination of economical and political theories, and I'm pretty sure religion doesn't do that.

1.
a system of ideas and ideals, especially one which forms the basis of economic or political theory and policy.

I would say most religions are a system of ideas and ideals.

[Arkhane]

Faith is also a form of ideology, and yet you claim it is inefficient. You keep contradicting yourself.

Religion is not an ideology. Ideology is a combination of economical and political theories, and I'm pretty sure religion doesn't do that.

You obviously have not heard of Theocracies.

[Panslav]

Religion is not an ideology. Ideology is a combination of economical and political theories, and I'm pretty sure religion doesn't do that.

You obviously have not heard of Theocracies.

Theocracy is a very rare form of goverment, one where a priest rules as a monarch. Currently Vatican is the only non-Muslim theocracy (I think).

[Arkhane]

You obviously have not heard of Theocracies.

Theocracy is a very rare form of goverment, one where a priest rules as a monarch. Currently Vatican is the only non-Muslim theocracy (I think).

There have been many theocracies in the past, from the time of the pharaoh's and especially during Crusades, where the name of God is invoked and used as a basis for political and economic systems.

You cannot deny that religion and ideologies are related.

[Duvniask]

As for the question at the centre of this thread, I would think it's obvious that just coming to a realization about the truth (as I see it) shouldn't logically be expected to lead to a better world. If anything, by coming to that realization, the absurd world we live in becomes that much more apparent, as does the burden each of us have to make it better.

However, I do think that the atheist position places a greater burden on the individual to justify themselves, not before God*, but to their fellow human beings. And I find that to be a good thing. Atheism and the skepticism with which it often walks hand in hand leads us to a more rational mindset, to question traditions and authority. Justifying women being second class citizens or the Indian caste system becomes a lot harder if you can't invoke seemingly unquestionable scripture or other such explanations that rely on the authority of religions in and of themselves.


*Assuming we are speaking of an intervening, personal one who pays attention to human affairs

[Panslav]

Theocracy is a very rare form of goverment, one where a priest rules as a monarch. Currently Vatican is the only non-Muslim theocracy (I think).

There have been many theocracies in the past, from the time of the pharaoh's and especially during Crusades, where the name of God is invoked and used as a basis for political and economic systems.

You cannot deny that religion and ideologies are related.

The furhtest religion usually goes in that regard is "Spread your belief, burn the infidels"

[United Muscovite Nations]

There have been many theocracies in the past, from the time of the pharaoh's and especially during Crusades, where the name of God is invoked and used as a basis for political and economic systems.

You cannot deny that religion and ideologies are related.

The furhtest religion usually goes in that regard is "Spread your belief, burn the infidels"

Many religions have complex political systems which they have implemented in the past, or which they explicitly endorse (hell, Islam as an example has an entire system of government and law code which is a part of its praxis).

[Chan Island]

But religion has become a default refuge and excuse for those who seek to justify inequality or destroying human dignity.

Religion is one of many excuses. It's a very useful excuse, but protecting a revolution or something like that works just as well and doesn't require a God.

Removing a powerful excuse for tyranny is itself a good thing to do in and of itself.

[Imperial Joseon]

Theocracy is a very rare form of goverment, one where a priest rules as a monarch. Currently Vatican is the only non-Muslim theocracy (I think).

There have been many theocracies in the past, from the time of the pharaoh's and especially during Crusades, where the name of God is invoked and used as a basis for political and economic systems.

You cannot deny that religion and ideologies are related.

Just look at North Korea.

[Chan Island]

Me? I was a totally miserable sod when I dabbled in belief.

Also when should I point out that the list of the least religious places on Earth overlaps pretty well with the list of the most prosperous, equal and cohesive societies on Earth?

And yet, the PRC and the Soviet Union were officially atheist.

It's almost like there's other reasons for that prosperity.

And yet they are anomalies on the overall trend.

Also, they were communist, a despicable political ideology that could well be described as it's own religion.

[Arkhane]

As for the question at the centre of this thread, I would think it's obvious that just coming to a realization about the truth (as I see it) shouldn't logically be expected to lead to a better world. If anything, by coming to that realization, the absurd world we live in becomes that much more apparent, as does the burden each of us have to make it better.

However, I do think that the atheist position places a greater burden on the individual to justify themselves, not before God*, but to their fellow human beings. And I find that to be a good thing. Atheism and the skepticism with which it often walks hand in hand leads us to a more rational mindset, to question traditions and authority. Justifying women being second class citizens or the Indian caste system becomes a lot harder if you can't invoke seemingly unquestionable scripture or other such explanations that rely on the authority of religions in and of themselves.


*Assuming we are speaking of an intervening, personal one who pays attention to human affairs

The obvious difference is the lack of primal reverence and fear. A God who will account for all your wrongdoings and exact punishments is a more frightening belief system than one where you have to consciously discipline and rely on your self-righteousness to be a better human being for others.

[Chan Island]

As for the question at the centre of this thread, I would think it's obvious that just coming to a realization about the truth (as I see it) shouldn't logically be expected to lead to a better world. If anything, by coming to that realization, the absurd world we live in becomes that much more apparent, as does the burden each of us have to make it better.

However, I do think that the atheist position places a greater burden on the individual to justify themselves, not before God*, but to their fellow human beings. And I find that to be a good thing. Atheism and the skepticism with which it often walks hand in hand leads us to a more rational mindset, to question traditions and authority. Justifying women being second class citizens or the Indian caste system becomes a lot harder if you can't invoke seemingly unquestionable scripture or other such explanations that rely on the authority of religions in and of themselves.


*Assuming we are speaking of an intervening, personal one who pays attention to human affairs

This. This poster writes the truth.

[Arkhane]

There have been many theocracies in the past, from the time of the pharaoh's and especially during Crusades, where the name of God is invoked and used as a basis for political and economic systems.

You cannot deny that religion and ideologies are related.

The furhtest religion usually goes in that regard is "Spread your belief, burn the infidels"

I'm beginning to suspect that you know very little of history, society and religion.

[Imperial Joseon]

The furhtest religion usually goes in that regard is "Spread your belief, burn the infidels"

I'm beginning to suspect that you know very little of history, society and religion.

Christianity is not like that. I agree.