Hunting: The most ethical source of animal protein?

[Ard al Islam]

Aye.

[Costa Fierro]

I mean, hunters and some conservationists here are fighting with farmers and the other half of conservationists over the use of warfarin for feral pig control(with one of the arguments against being the potential impact on native vulture populations which rely on pest controlled boar meat for food). So I can sort of grasp the argument.

What's interesting is that there's a sort of swap around between the States and NZ: people using poisons for pest control to prevent damage to farms and conservationists worried about the potential impact on native bird species (and rightly so, warfarin is not a particularly nice anti-coagulant) whereas conservationists are using poisons for pest control to prevent damage to native ecosystems and native bird species here.

In some respects hunting does have its place in terms of pest control and animal management, especially in national marks and wildlife management areas, but as a "ethically superior" (which I personally find somewhat amusing as not all hunted animals die outright) source of protein it's not really that "ethically superior", especially in the face of new technologies where synthetic or lab-grown meat exists.

[Costa Fierro]

From where I am sitting, hunting even as it stands now is massively environmentally damaging to native ecosystems here, and even the slightest increase in deer, pig, or goat numbers, let alone other introduced grazing animals, would have a detrimental risk to New Zealand's already precarious natural ecosystems.

I thought I heard when New Zealand put a bounty on rabbits, the rabbit population went up, because hunters brought in more rabbits to collect more money.

Maybe. It's called the Cobra effect, and it's why I don't trust hunters when they say "pay us to hunt possums".

[Trollzyn the Infinite]

The only unethical part of the meat industry is government involvement and regulations.

Speaking of unethical...

[Senkaku]

From where I am sitting, hunting even as it stands now is massively environmentally damaging to native ecosystems here, and even the slightest increase in deer, pig, or goat numbers, let alone other introduced grazing animals, would have a detrimental risk to New Zealand's already precarious natural ecosystems.

I thought I heard when New Zealand put a bounty on rabbits, the rabbit population went up, because hunters brought in more rabbits to collect more money.

You may be thinking of cobras in Delhi. Rabbits multiply well enough that I don't think you'd have to bring in more rabbits (also that'd be wildly unprofitable given that New Zealand is incredibly far from everywhere)

[Neanderthaland]

I mean, sure. If you're not worried about chronic wasting disease.

[Rojava Free State]

I prefer shooting fish in a barrel

[Kubra]

I mean it's not really bad ethically but it comes with a lot of health and logistical problems to the point that it's better just to make raising livestock a more ethical endeavour.

[Costa Fierro]

I mean it's not really bad ethically but it comes with a lot of health and logistical problems to the point that it's better just to make raising livestock a more ethical endeavour.

Traditional animal husbandry is heading the way of the dodo as well.

[Kubra]

I mean it's not really bad ethically but it comes with a lot of health and logistical problems to the point that it's better just to make raising livestock a more ethical endeavour.

Traditional animal husbandry is heading the way of the dodo as well.

well i wasn't referring to traditional. You know, battery farming and all that. It ain't pretty, but it's either reforming that or vegetarianism.
Or lab meat. That'll be great.
We should of course continue to raise chickens as we do, because chickens have it coming. If we don't it's your families next.

[Aclion]

Although I understand that a purely plant based diet would be EVEN MORE ETHICAL, I am not someone who is willing to give up animal protein and many others are unwilling to as well.

Actually I would not be surprised if venison had a lower impact on animals well being then farmed plants. We tend to focus a lot on what's being eaten when talking about sourcing our food. But just as important is the impact our foods production has on the environment. While producing vegetables has a significantly lower impact then livestock we still should not ignore that any agriculture comes at a significant cost to wildlife. One of the big advantages of hunting is that it obligates the protection of lands for game animals to thrive, which also provides home for other wildlife.

So long as it is done safely and the animal is not tortured/left with a slowly lethal wound, and the animal is used for more then just the enjoyment of the hunt (as in actually use the meat/other animal parts) I have no issue with hunting. Actually from what I understand hunters have a very strong interest in conservation since conservation means that they are able to enjoy the hunt and use the animal.

Like people who give drugs to kids on Halloween, hunters that don't take the meat are completely imaginary. Venison is expensive and no one's buying what is essentially a $60 lottery ticket only to leave their prize to rot in the woods.

[Ayytaly]

I propose cat-hunting. It's an invasive species, and its meat is quite delicious.

[Krasny-Volny]

In North America humans have killed off, severely reduced, or displaced most of the predators that used to be at the top of the food chain. Hence why that continent has the densest deer population in the world. The deer - and to a lesser extent, smaller game animals like rabbit - already suffer from a disproportionate amount of disease due to their unnatural population density.

If their populations were allowed to continue growing unchecked they would overgraze, resulting in erosion and catastrophic damage to their local ecosystem in addition to causing them to die from malnutrition and become even more susceptible to the disease, which as mentioned is already a problem.

Sustainable hunting is effective wildlife management and as environmentally beneficial as it gets.

It’s good for both the planet and people, who get the benefit of organic, free range meat without the addition of any modern processed ingredients or artificial preservatives.

As someone who works in the environmental sector and hunts from time to time it’s puzzling why more of the progressive green crowd aren’t in favor of sustainable hunting.

[Krasny-Volny]

I mean, hunters and some conservationists here are fighting with farmers and the other half of conservationists over the use of warfarin for feral pig control(with one of the arguments against being the potential impact on native vulture populations which rely on pest controlled boar meat for food). So I can sort of grasp the argument.

What's interesting is that there's a sort of swap around between the States and NZ: people using poisons for pest control to prevent damage to farms and conservationists worried about the potential impact on native bird species (and rightly so, warfarin is not a particularly nice anti-coagulant) whereas conservationists are using poisons for pest control to prevent damage to native ecosystems and native bird species here.

In some respects hunting does have its place in terms of pest control and animal management, especially in national marks and wildlife management areas, but as a "ethically superior" (which I personally find somewhat amusing as not all hunted animals die outright) source of protein it's not really that "ethically superior", especially in the face of new technologies where synthetic or lab-grown meat exists.

No comment on the topic of ethics, but.

Synthetic and lab-grown meat substitutes in my experience are highly processed and include all sorts of unnatural additives and artificial preservatives. I’m a fan of organic stuff myself.

I’ll freely acknowledge that hunting isn’t ideal everywhere, especially on islands and island chains with finite indigenous wildlife populations that have been traditionally overhunted like Hawaii, Guam, and New Zealand, but where it is - ie the vast landmasses of Russia and North America - it should absolutely be encouraged precisely because (provided the animal is disease free) the meat is such a superior product next to anything on the supermarket shelf. It’s free range, raised on natural organic material, and doesn’t contain unhealthy additives.

[The Lone Alliance]

So long as it is done safely and the animal is not tortured/left with a slowly lethal wound, and the animal is used for more then just the enjoyment of the hunt (as in actually use the meat/other animal parts) I have no issue with hunting. Actually from what I understand hunters have a very strong interest in conservation since conservation means that they are able to enjoy the hunt and use the animal.

Hunting in the US actually provides quite a bit of the money the US uses for the environment.

The only unethical part of the meat industry is government involvement and regulations.

The only reason meat got regulated in the first place was because of the meat industry's utter incompetence and downright disgusting practices, maybe you love your beef with a side of TB but humans back then didn't care for it.

It was regulate or DIE.

[Neanderthaland]

I propose cat-hunting. It's an invasive species, and its meat is quite delicious.

In paleolithic Eurasia, cat hunt you!

[Costa Fierro]

No comment on the topic of ethics, but.

Synthetic and lab-grown meat substitutes in my experience are highly processed and include all sorts of unnatural additives and artificial preservatives. I’m a fan of organic stuff myself.

I’ll freely acknowledge that hunting isn’t ideal everywhere, especially on islands and island chains with finite indigenous wildlife populations that have been traditionally overhunted like Hawaii, Guam, and New Zealand, but where it is - ie the vast landmasses of Russia and North America - it should absolutely be encouraged precisely because (provided the animal is disease free) the meat is such a superior product next to anything on the supermarket shelf. It’s free range, raised on natural organic material, and doesn’t contain unhealthy additives.

Most mass market meat is also highly processed, the main cost at least here in New Zealand is the negative impacts on the environment in terms of water use. In terms of hunting though, even here in a country the size of the state of Colorado, a supermarket is out of the way for a lot of people, a good hour or so even. There's a few who end up subsisting on typical game animals, but that number isn't big enough to warrant any form of protection.

[Cetacea]

Hunting alone would not be able to keep up with the demand for meat. Ethical? Perhaps. Practical? No.

This however is one of the positive features as it will mean less guarantee of supply and thus either lowering of consumption and demand OR increase innovation and cooperation to increase effeciency.

Humans are already at a point where we consume far more than we actually require, so a supply limit might be conducive to increase health via fasting

Its also notable that humans evolved as scavengers (primarily by sharing the kills of wolves/dogs) rather than hunters and the human advantage was the ability to preserve meats for future consumption. The umami taste in humans evolved to detect when food was ‘fermented’ but still edible.

[Risottia]

6: It's physically exhausting and improves your health, thus decreasing the burden on the medical system and decreasing the odds of major health problems which could make your family members upset.

Yes.
I'm sure no one gets injured when hunting with firearms, waiting on tree stands and such.

[Page]

I'll point out that "sacrifice red meat on Fridays in Lent" is not really an accurate summation of the rule. I mean, on a narrow, technical level, that's how the rule applies in the US. But it leaves out a lengthy historical context and the global rule which it was adapted from.

Regardless of the history of the tradition, the fact is that now, it should in no way be considered any sort of self-imposed hardship or sacrifice.

I'm an atheist, I don't have a dog in this fight but at least Muslims with Ramadan do half a day with nothing. Although that is not particularly impressive either, as I said, a healthy adult can easily go 24 hours without food and it isn't even hard. And back in the day, Catholics did a real fast on Good Friday, nowadays it's "we'll eat slightly smaller meals today."

People are free to do with they want to do, fast like a Jain ascetic or eat 50 hot dogs, their body, their business. I'm just annoyed at the fact people call not having meat on Fridays during Lent a sacrifice. It's not. It's not even a tiny one.

[The Traditional States]

Chicken is a better source of meat. If you do decide to eat meat, go for Chicken.

[Kaltovar]

The only unethical part of the meat industry is government involvement and regulations.

Speaking of unethical...

Isn't it shocking how Samadhi seems to hold the most ridiculous opinion on every conceivable subject? They remind me of a friend I had when I worked at the cable company and believed we should leave road building to private entities because "If people NEED roads they will build them. As it stands people just WANT roads."

I mean, sure. If you're not worried about chronic wasting disease.

The CDC indicates that there is no known case of Chronic Wasting Disease infecting humans. Although it's shown to pose a risk to certain non-human primates ... In any case, they're working on cutting the infection down. To be honest, I'm not worried about CWD.

[Sapporo Hyperspace Riftgate Laboratory]

Speaking of unethical...

Isn't it shocking how Samadhi seems to hold the most ridiculous opinion on every conceivable subject? They remind me of a friend I had when I worked at the cable company and believed we should leave road building to private entities because "If people NEED roads they will build them. As it stands people just WANT roads."

I concur with Kaltovar

[Alvecia]

Probably not the most feasible nor sustainable method. Ethically it could go either way. Lots of ifs, buts, and depends.