German fascist form regional coalition with centre-right

[Rojava Free State]

Tens of millions of people didn't just happen to die for no reason in Eastern Europe; they were deliberately killed in a war of extermination conducted by the Nazi regime and carried out by its millions of footsoldiers. Your "average German soldier" of World War Two was a genocider.

At least a quarter of those deaths are likely attributable to the Soviet Union.

Be quiet, you're gonna spoil the rose colored view of world war II as a fight between the forces of good and evil.

[Vistulange]

At least a quarter of those deaths are likely attributable to the Soviet Union.

Be quiet, you're gonna spoil the rose colored view of world war II as a fight between the forces of good and evil.

Iunno, pal, not even the Soviets stuck people into concentration camps for just being born to incorrect parents, or being crippled, or of a wrong ethnicity. That's saying a lot.

[Nakena]

Be quiet, you're gonna spoil the rose colored view of world war II as a fight between the forces of good and evil.

Iunno, pal, not even the Soviets stuck people into concentration camps for just being born to incorrect parents, or being crippled, or of a wrong ethnicity. That's saying a lot.

The Kulaks would like to have a word about that. Or two. Or the people whom Stalin deported.

[Rojava Free State]

Be quiet, you're gonna spoil the rose colored view of world war II as a fight between the forces of good and evil.

Iunno, pal, not even the Soviets stuck people into concentration camps for just being born to incorrect parents, or being crippled, or of a wrong ethnicity. That's saying a lot.

They instead sent them there for having the wrong opinion or even worse because Stalin didn't trust them. That's so much better right?

Murdering and imprisoning people is murdering or imprisoning regardless of why you do it. I hope that if I'm unfortunate enough to be murdered some day, no one at my funeral says "at least he was killed cause the guy wanted his wallet and not because of racism"

[Torrocca]

At least four in every five German soldiers actively participated in genocide. Tens of millions of people didn't just happen to die for no reason in Eastern Europe; they were deliberately killed in a war of extermination conducted by the Nazi regime and carried out by its millions of footsoldiers. Your "average German soldier" of World War Two was a genocider.

Got any proof it was 4 out of 5, or are you just trying to claim that world war II was a good guy vs bad guy war, and not a Nazi Reich vs Soviet and friends war with good guys and bad guys on both sides of the conflict?

If you're trying to figure out what my underlying belief or message is, it's that 99% of wars aren't heroic and aren't fucking comic books with a completely evil villain and a completely good and heroic protagonist. Reality is way more complicated and most wars and disastrous and sick eras. Case in point is Vietnam

For one, Wette's The Wehrmacht: History, Myth, Reality makes the case that most Wehrmacht soldiers freely and eagerly participated in genocidal activities like mass killings.

These two articles also do a fantastic job of breaking down the myth of the Wehrmacht's supposed disassociation with the Nazi regime's genocides.

EDIT: Actually Ordinary Men is the one that did the study as well, on Reserve Police Battalion 101. That's where the 4 out of 5 figure comes from.

[Rojava Free State]

Iunno, pal, not even the Soviets stuck people into concentration camps for just being born to incorrect parents, or being crippled, or of a wrong ethnicity. That's saying a lot.

The Kulaks would like to have a word about that. Or two. Or the people whom Stalin deported.

The communists were no heroes. The people they allegedly liberated in the war simply swapped German fascist tyranny for Stalinist communist tyranny

[Ifreann]

Ordinary Men dispels the notion that the soldiers of the Wehrmacht had no choice in the matter of genocide. Firstly because not a single soldier was required to carry out genocidal killings, yet a great many did - up to at least four out of every five. Secondly because, up until very late 1944/1945, when the Volkssturm was a thing and the SS was executing Germans on a whim, people weren't executed or sent to camps for refusing to commit acts of genocide.

It doesn't matter if they disagreed with Nazism on the frontlines if they were still on frontlines happily following orders and killing the very people that were the targets of Nazi genocide.

I wasn't talking about guys who committed actual genocide. I was just talking about German soldiers in general, most of whom were busy fighting the British, American or Russian armies. Anyone who actually massacred civilians was still a war criminal even if they were just following orders

I'm afraid that you have been misled by the myth of the clean Wehrmacht.

[North German Realm]

Then they should have gone to the camp.

I guarantee you right now that for 99% of people, if the choice was obey the Reich and join the German army or go to auschwitz, they would join the army. I'm not talking about the SS here. Those guys were downright evil. I'm talking about your average German soldier in World War II, who probably would rather have been at home with their wife and kids than out killing and dying on the beach in Normandy. That's how most wars work. We always like to divide people up into the good side and the bad side, and even with a war like world war II where one side's government was definitely evil as hell, you can't say the people living in that country were.

I can easily say that anyone that didn't actively resist against the government was just as evil as the government. Anyone that joined the Wehrmacht and who partook in the Wehrmacht's many, many atrocities (atrocities that, as explained above, they were not forced to; The Nazis quickly understood that forcing people to kill others only tended to result in a drop in efficiency and nothing more) was evil. Even if it was death or genocide, they should have picked death. Even if it was camp or genocide, they should have picked camp. Hilariously enough, they weren't even given these types of choices. They just did it for the fun of it.

[Nakena]

I wasn't talking about guys who committed actual genocide. I was just talking about German soldiers in general, most of whom were busy fighting the British, American or Russian armies. Anyone who actually massacred civilians was still a war criminal even if they were just following orders

I'm afraid that you have been misled by the myth of the clean Wehrmacht.

He never claimed the Wehrmacht was clean.

[Nakena]

tfw being a jaded and worn out once idealistic leftist gone cynical, with a beer can in the hand and a cig next to it having that once chance to feel good about oneself when trash-talking real or supposedly people that fit into the category of being "Fascist" because thats the one time where one can still feel self-rightous and all good and fine.

[Rojava Free State]

I wasn't talking about guys who committed actual genocide. I was just talking about German soldiers in general, most of whom were busy fighting the British, American or Russian armies. Anyone who actually massacred civilians was still a war criminal even if they were just following orders

I'm afraid that you have been misled by the myth of the clean Wehrmacht.

I never said they were all clean. I simply said they weren't all dirty.

[Agend]

Ordinary Men dispels the notion that the soldiers of the Wehrmacht had no choice in the matter of genocide. Firstly because not a single soldier was required to carry out genocidal killings, yet a great many did - up to at least four out of every five. Secondly because, up until very late 1944/1945, when the Volkssturm was a thing and the SS was executing Germans on a whim, people weren't executed or sent to camps for refusing to commit acts of genocide.

It doesn't matter if they disagreed with Nazism on the frontlines if they were still on frontlines happily following orders and killing the very people that were the targets of Nazi genocide.

I wasn't talking about guys who committed actual genocide. I was just talking about German soldiers in general, most of whom were busy fighting the British, American or Russian armies. Anyone who actually massacred civilians was still a war criminal even if they were just following orders

When they lost. If they won they wouldn't have been considered war criminals.

[Rojava Free State]

I guarantee you right now that for 99% of people, if the choice was obey the Reich and join the German army or go to auschwitz, they would join the army. I'm not talking about the SS here. Those guys were downright evil. I'm talking about your average German soldier in World War II, who probably would rather have been at home with their wife and kids than out killing and dying on the beach in Normandy. That's how most wars work. We always like to divide people up into the good side and the bad side, and even with a war like world war II where one side's government was definitely evil as hell, you can't say the people living in that country were.

I can easily say that anyone that didn't actively resist against the government was just as evil as the government. Anyone that joined the Wehrmacht and who partook in the Wehrmacht's many, many atrocities (atrocities that, as explained above, they were not forced to; The Nazis quickly understood that forcing people to kill others only tended to result in a drop in efficiency and nothing more) was evil. Even if it was death or genocide, they should have picked death. Even if it was camp or genocide, they should have picked camp. Hilariously enough, they weren't even given these types of choices. They just did it for the fun of it.

And I'm telling you that most people would make what you consider to be the wrong decision. You're trying to create a myth of this special evil that was the German army and the heroic allied forces when in reality it wasn't that simple. It never is. As I said not long ago, most wars don't feature heroism, they're just unbridled violence

[Ifreann]

I'm afraid that you have been misled by the myth of the clean Wehrmacht.

He never claimed the Wehrmacht was clean.

I never claimed that he did. But the essence of the myth, that the soldiers of the Wehrmacht were simply ordinary young men who happened to live under a Nazi government that set them to fighting similar young men who happened to live under other governments, is pretty much exactly what RFS is saying here.

[Bear Stearns]

tfw being a jaded and worn out once idealistic leftist gone cynical, with a beer can in the hand and a cig next to it having that once chance to feel good about oneself when trash-talking real or supposedly people that fit into the category of being "Fascist" because thats the one time where one can still feel self-rightous and all good and fine.

My political views were considered mainstream in 1993. Today those same views are called alt right.

[Rojava Free State]

I wasn't talking about guys who committed actual genocide. I was just talking about German soldiers in general, most of whom were busy fighting the British, American or Russian armies. Anyone who actually massacred civilians was still a war criminal even if they were just following orders

When they lost. If they won they wouldn't have been considered war criminals.

A war criminal is a war criminal whether they win or not. The American soldiers who massacred civilians in Mai Lai were war criminals and the fact they weren't sentenced to life in prison or to death is a disgrace to the US. The British soldiers who opened fire on unarmed Irish Catholics on bloody Sunday were war criminals too. The Israeli soldiers who shot civilians in Gaza were war criminals. The Russians who killed noncombatants in chechnya were war criminals. The Filipino troops who massacred Moros were war criminals.

[Bear Stearns]

Be quiet, you're gonna spoil the rose colored view of world war II as a fight between the forces of good and evil.

Iunno, pal, not even the Soviets stuck people into concentration camps for just being born to incorrect parents, or being crippled, or of a wrong ethnicity. That's saying a lot.

yeah they did

[Torrocca]

I can easily say that anyone that didn't actively resist against the government was just as evil as the government. Anyone that joined the Wehrmacht and who partook in the Wehrmacht's many, many atrocities (atrocities that, as explained above, they were not forced to; The Nazis quickly understood that forcing people to kill others only tended to result in a drop in efficiency and nothing more) was evil. Even if it was death or genocide, they should have picked death. Even if it was camp or genocide, they should have picked camp. Hilariously enough, they weren't even given these types of choices. They just did it for the fun of it.

And I'm telling you that most people would make what you consider to be the wrong decision. You're trying to create a myth of this special evil that was the German army and the heroic allied forces when in reality it wasn't that simple. It never is. As I said not long ago, most wars don't feature heroism, they're just unbridled violence

One side started a war to genocide millions of people and create a bunch of one-race Fascist empires, the other side fought to protect itself and prevent that from happening. These are, obviously, the same things.

[J o J]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-51384615

tl;dr , the neofascist AfD have joined forces with Merkel's CDU and the German liberals (Freiheitlichen) to oust the left-wing candidate in a German Land.

Bit worrying. Especially given how so far the democratic parties on the right had refused to form alliances with the AfD , avoiding to give them institutional legitimacy.
When the barrier separating antidemocratic forces from democratic forces fall, democracy is in danger, because you can expect fascists to exploit the workings of democracy to abolish it.

You say this as your flag bears a hammer and sickle.



I recall antidemocratic leftists, like Stalin and his USSR, working with democratic nations like America to take down fascists in WWII, but it doesn't appear that you have an issue with that one, does it? Did communists legitimately gain power in Russia, China, or Vietnam? Of course not, they seized it, just like Hitler and others of the time's fascist and NatSoc movements did.

[Heloin]

Why is calling a extreme far right party, who work alongside and supports neo-nazis, fascist a controversial statement?

[Rojava Free State]

Iunno, pal, not even the Soviets stuck people into concentration camps for just being born to incorrect parents, or being crippled, or of a wrong ethnicity. That's saying a lot.

yeah they did

Btw I just remember that stalin was so suspicious, he ordered the deportation of entire ethnic groups to central asia and siberia. Many of the deported died on the way there

[Rojava Free State]

Why is calling a extreme far right party, who work alongside and supports neo-nazis, fascist a controversial statement?

It shouldn't be. If you actively call for racial violence and authoritarian government, you're probably a fascist

[Torrocca]

Why is calling a extreme far right party, who work alongside and supports neo-nazis, fascist a controversial statement?

Because people want to muddy the waters and try and convince people that a spade isn't a spade.

[Nakena]

My political views were considered mainstream in 1993. Today those same views are called alt right.

My views were considered ok until like a decade ago when the SJW crowd started to take increasingly hold over the mainstream before becoming it's defining force with their peachy progessivists tune.

[Rojava Free State]

And I'm telling you that most people would make what you consider to be the wrong decision. You're trying to create a myth of this special evil that was the German army and the heroic allied forces when in reality it wasn't that simple. It never is. As I said not long ago, most wars don't feature heroism, they're just unbridled violence

One side started a war to genocide millions of people and create a bunch of one-race Fascist empires, the other side fought to protect itself and prevent that from happening. These are, obviously, the same things.

Nice of you to leave out the millions of innocent people raped and killed by the red army