Vegetarian Discussion Thread

[Outer Sparta]

How exactly does being vegan help the environment?

Something about lowering impact in the environment from farming practices and animal cruelty. Like cattle ranching and cattle slaughtering. Or that’s the claim.

Producing one pound of beef requires a boatload of water, land, and feed. Beef is the most resource intensive, followed by pork and chicken. Insects require the least amount of resources by far and is a food source for billions of people.

[Vetalia]

Vegetarianism - no problem, it is a natural and historically attested diet that avoids many of the consequences of a meat-heavy diet that supplements with efficient products of agriculture like milk and eggs.

Veganism, though I have a problem with - if your diet requires you to take man-made vitamin supplements to prevent serious diseases of malnutrition to the point of potentially killing a child there is something seriously wrong with it. Like it or not, humans are omnivores and have adapted to a mixed diet of plant and animal products, even if those animal products do not require killing and consuming the animal in question. A strict vegan diet would be a death sentence from scurvy, beriberi or a host of other ailments before modern vitamins became available in the 20th century.

[Outer Sparta]

Vegetarianism - no problem, it is a natural and historically attested diet that avoids many of the consequences of a meat-heavy diet that supplements with efficient products of agriculture like milk and eggs.

Veganism, though I have a problem with - if your diet requires you to take man-made vitamin supplements to prevent serious diseases of malnutrition to the point of potentially killing a child there is something seriously wrong with it. Like it or not, humans are omnivores and have adapted to a mixed diet of plant and animal products, even if those animal products do not require killing and consuming the animal in question. A strict vegan diet would be a death sentence from scurvy, beriberi or a host of other ailments before modern vitamins became available in the 20th century.

It's true that a vegan diet isn't attainable for babies and young children, in fact a vegan diet is very dangerous and will kill them. People that are fully grown can be vegans, though finding ways of getting enough vitamin B12 will be a challenge.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Vegetarianism - no problem, it is a natural and historically attested diet that avoids many of the consequences of a meat-heavy diet that supplements with efficient products of agriculture like milk and eggs.

Veganism, though I have a problem with - if your diet requires you to take man-made vitamin supplements to prevent serious diseases of malnutrition to the point of potentially killing a child there is something seriously wrong with it. Like it or not, humans are omnivores and have adapted to a mixed diet of plant and animal products, even if those animal products do not require killing and consuming the animal in question. A strict vegan diet would be a death sentence from scurvy, beriberi or a host of other ailments before modern vitamins became available in the 20th century.

It's true that a vegan diet isn't attainable for babies and young children, in fact a vegan diet is very dangerous and will kill them. People that are fully grown can be vegans, though finding ways of getting enough vitamin B12 will be a challenge.

If anything, go vegan under doctor’s supervision. I’ve seen some people truly mess themselves up when going vegan because they didn’t inform themselves properly or consulted with a doctor first.

[Outer Sparta]

It's true that a vegan diet isn't attainable for babies and young children, in fact a vegan diet is very dangerous and will kill them. People that are fully grown can be vegans, though finding ways of getting enough vitamin B12 will be a challenge.

If anything, go vegan under doctor’s supervision. I’ve seen some people truly mess themselves up when going vegan because they didn’t inform themselves properly or consulted with a doctor first.

Going vegan is a huge undertaking. Humans weren't meant to live like full-on herbivores. Even vegetarians get their nutritional needs from animal sources like milk and eggs.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

If anything, go vegan under doctor’s supervision. I’ve seen some people truly mess themselves up when going vegan because they didn’t inform themselves properly or consulted with a doctor first.

Going vegan is a huge undertaking. Humans weren't meant to live like full-on herbivores. Even vegetarians get their nutritional needs from animal sources like milk and eggs.

It is huge, yes, but with the right supervision, right combinations, and vitamins, it is doable. Just, you know, do so under a doctor’s or a nutritionist’s supervision.

[Outer Sparta]

Going vegan is a huge undertaking. Humans weren't meant to live like full-on herbivores. Even vegetarians get their nutritional needs from animal sources like milk and eggs.

It is huge, yes, but with the right supervision, right combinations, and vitamins, it is doable. Just, you know, do so under a doctor’s or a nutritionist’s supervision.

And it's hard to be vegan. I know people who are vegetarian and have tried to be vegan but switched back to vegetarian.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

It is huge, yes, but with the right supervision, right combinations, and vitamins, it is doable. Just, you know, do so under a doctor’s or a nutritionist’s supervision.

And it's hard to be vegan. I know people who are vegetarian and have tried to be vegan but switched back to vegetarian.

It takes dedication and money. Vegan diets can mount up. Certain ingredients are rather pricey, like the protein powders and substitutes.

[Aureumterra]

Going vegan is a huge undertaking. Humans weren't meant to live like full-on herbivores. Even vegetarians get their nutritional needs from animal sources like milk and eggs.

It is huge, yes, but with the right supervision, right combinations, and vitamins, it is doable. Just, you know, do so under a doctor’s or a nutritionist’s supervision.

I still don’t quite get how it helps the environment

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

It is huge, yes, but with the right supervision, right combinations, and vitamins, it is doable. Just, you know, do so under a doctor’s or a nutritionist’s supervision.

I still don’t quite get how it helps the environment

I think Outer Sparta explained this at the top of the page.

[The Wasatch]

It is huge, yes, but with the right supervision, right combinations, and vitamins, it is doable. Just, you know, do so under a doctor’s or a nutritionist’s supervision.

I still don’t quite get how it helps the environment

It helps the environment because the lion's share of agricultural emissions are from animal husbandry. Not to mention water and costs on the ecosystem. Research what happened to the American deserts with the introduction of horses and cattle.

[Vetalia]

Vegetarianism - no problem, it is a natural and historically attested diet that avoids many of the consequences of a meat-heavy diet that supplements with efficient products of agriculture like milk and eggs.

Veganism, though I have a problem with - if your diet requires you to take man-made vitamin supplements to prevent serious diseases of malnutrition to the point of potentially killing a child there is something seriously wrong with it. Like it or not, humans are omnivores and have adapted to a mixed diet of plant and animal products, even if those animal products do not require killing and consuming the animal in question. A strict vegan diet would be a death sentence from scurvy, beriberi or a host of other ailments before modern vitamins became available in the 20th century.

It's true that a vegan diet isn't attainable for babies and young children, in fact a vegan diet is very dangerous and will kill them. People that are fully grown can be vegans, though finding ways of getting enough vitamin B12 will be a challenge.

Or maybe just eat a normal vegetarian ovo-lacto diet your whole life if you want to be sustainable? A made-up fad vegan diet from the 20th century dependent upon man-made vitamins doesn't exactly stack up all that well against the diets that have sustained millions of people in Asia for millenia. I might as well chow down on a burger and fries as that would give me more useful nutrients than a vegan diet without having to pop vitamin pills to prevent beriberi and rickets.

[Outer Sparta]

It's true that a vegan diet isn't attainable for babies and young children, in fact a vegan diet is very dangerous and will kill them. People that are fully grown can be vegans, though finding ways of getting enough vitamin B12 will be a challenge.

Or maybe just eat a normal vegetarian ovo-lacto diet your whole life if you want to be sustainable? A made-up fad vegan diet from the 20th century dependent upon man-made vitamins doesn't exactly stack up all that well against the diets that have sustained millions of people in Asia for millenia.

Going vegetarian for a day is easier than it seems. My university cafeterias have many options that suit a myriad of people's needs and preferences.

[The Wasatch]

Or maybe just eat a normal vegetarian ovo-lacto diet your whole life if you want to be sustainable? A made-up fad vegan diet from the 20th century dependent upon man-made vitamins doesn't exactly stack up all that well against the diets that have sustained millions of people in Asia for millenia.

Going vegetarian for a day is easier than it seems. My university cafeterias have many options that suit a myriad of people's needs and preferences.

Quite true. Many of my friends ask how I'm vegetarian, but I hardly eat different than them on an average day. Meat is part of some people's lifestyle, but for many it would be easier than they think.

[Outer Sparta]

Going vegetarian for a day is easier than it seems. My university cafeterias have many options that suit a myriad of people's needs and preferences.

Quite true. Many of my friends ask how I'm vegetarian, but I hardly eat different than them on an average day. Meat is part of some people's lifestyle, but for many it would be easier than they think.

I also like how many airlines are adding full-time vegetarian hot meal options on their flights. US carriers do it well and I've actually enjoyed the vegetarian options on US airlines.

[The Allied Tribe]

You can do 10 poll options; why isn't flexitarian on there?

Oh, crap, I forgot. Flexitarians are omnivore-vegetarian hybrids, but I’ll add them anyway to the pescatarian/pollotarian option.

[The Wasatch]

Quite true. Many of my friends ask how I'm vegetarian, but I hardly eat different than them on an average day. Meat is part of some people's lifestyle, but for many it would be easier than they think.

I also like how many airlines are adding full-time vegetarian hot meal options on their flights. US carriers do it well and I've actually enjoyed the vegetarian options on US airlines.

Yes. The advances in plant-based "meats" in recent years is astounding. They are ~80% chemically similar to real meat, enough that there is little taste difference. It's nice having a burger every once in a while without the out-sized environmental cost.

[The Allied Tribe]

Or maybe just eat a normal vegetarian ovo-lacto diet your whole life if you want to be sustainable? A made-up fad vegan diet from the 20th century dependent upon man-made vitamins doesn't exactly stack up all that well against the diets that have sustained millions of people in Asia for millenia.

Going vegetarian for a day is easier than it seems. My university cafeterias have many options that suit a myriad of people's needs and preferences.

I agree. Although I’m not sure how the conversion is, I can be almost certain that once you get used to not eating meat, it might be pretty easy, even if the conversion is permanent.

[Outer Sparta]

I also like how many airlines are adding full-time vegetarian hot meal options on their flights. US carriers do it well and I've actually enjoyed the vegetarian options on US airlines.

Yes. The advances in plant-based "meats" in recent years is astounding. They are ~80% chemically similar to real meat, enough that there is little taste difference. It's nice having a burger every once in a while without the out-sized environmental cost.

In a world where in-vitro meat takes over, I would finally be able to indulge on meat without any guilt.

[USS Monitor]

Encouraging people is one of the main goals of vegetarians (even though I’m not specifically one of them) and although most vegetarians encourage non-vegetarians, they will not literally force them to. Also, what about the environment?

I do try to encourage people to be more healthy; learning how to cook (you'd be surprised the impact that only that has on your health), eating more vegetables and fruits, eating less processed and frozen foods, starting a garden if they are able, etc. I understand a vegetarian or vegan diet isn't for everyone, though I do help people along if they want to try to move into that.

I mentioned part, or at least the part I focus on, of the environmental impact in my previous post, its not my personal reason for becoming a vegetarian (I think its important to talk about the way the modern diet puts a strain on the environment, it just isn't the main driving force that led me to be a vegetarian) so I tend to go with what led me to it first.

I agree with this post, except I'm not a vegetarian. It is good for people to be talking about how we eat, and how that affects our health and the environment. We can take steps to be healthier and more eco-friendly with or without becoming vegetarian. Some vegetarian diets are good, but some diets that include meat in moderation are good too. It really depends on the specific foods. If someone doesn't want to give up meat, they can still think about how much meat they're eating, or what kind of meat, and figure out how to satisfy their meat cravings without straining the environment more than necessary.

But I absolutely agree that people should learn how to cook and you can do a lot of nice things with fresh veggies.

[Cetacea]

I still don’t quite get how it helps the environment

It helps the environment because the lion's share of agricultural emissions are from animal husbandry. Not to mention water and costs on the ecosystem. Research what happened to the American deserts with the introduction of horses and cattle.

Vegatarianism actually does nothing at all for the environment because Industrial Monoculture Horticulture is a net detriment to water and soil quality. We’ve already heard about the affects of Palm Oil and Soy production on the rainforest and its threat to wildlife, but they arent the only culprits. Wheat and Rice are the most common global crops and along with tea are the most water intensive commodities. This means that they a overall detrimental especially in the face of increasing drought susceptibility.

Intensification of horticulture from increase demand from Vegetarians leads to a loss of vegetation biodiversity, depletion of soil carbon and a threat to the survival of wildlife - especially if paired with increase use of herbicides and pesticides (see extinction of the Bees).

The issue of food miles is also an often overlooked factoid - exotic superfoods like quinoa and macadamia nuts and tropical fruits like Mangoes, Avocado, bananas and coconut (for those coconut water smoothies) result in increase carbon-miles and are this worse for the environment than the salmon you fished from the local stream or the lamb chop sourced from 20 miles away.

Vegetarianism only really works if its local and organic, but the same argument applies to meat too...

[Southern Avarsarstan]

It's true that a vegan diet isn't attainable for babies and young children, in fact a vegan diet is very dangerous and will kill them. People that are fully grown can be vegans, though finding ways of getting enough vitamin B12 will be a challenge.

Vegetarianism - no problem, it is a natural and historically attested diet that avoids many of the consequences of a meat-heavy diet that supplements with efficient products of agriculture like milk and eggs.

Veganism, though I have a problem with - if your diet requires you to take man-made vitamin supplements to prevent serious diseases of malnutrition to the point of potentially killing a child there is something seriously wrong with it. Like it or not, humans are omnivores and have adapted to a mixed diet of plant and animal products, even if those animal products do not require killing and consuming the animal in question. A strict vegan diet would be a death sentence from scurvy, beriberi or a host of other ailments before modern vitamins became available in the 20th century.

This isn't true depending on how strict the veganism is, veganism and vegetarianism has existed thousands of years before modern vitamin supplements without mass die offs or massive health issues in those communities or numerous 'cheat days'. Its also possible to maintain a fully vegan diet without supplements in the modern age too - though it should be noted even those that are not vegan at all often are lacking in something or another just because of how much food culture has changed and mentality about dieting and how much people think about what they eat has changed.

[Southern Avarsarstan]

It helps the environment because the lion's share of agricultural emissions are from animal husbandry. Not to mention water and costs on the ecosystem. Research what happened to the American deserts with the introduction of horses and cattle.

Vegatarianism actually does nothing at all for the environment because Industrial Monoculture Horticulture is a net detriment to water and soil quality. We’ve already heard about the affects of Palm Oil and Soy production on the rainforest and its threat to wildlife, but they arent the only culprits. Wheat and Rice are the most common global crops and along with tea are the most water intensive commodities. This means that they a overall detrimental especially in the face of increasing drought susceptibility.

Intensification of horticulture from increase demand from Vegetarians leads to a loss of vegetation biodiversity, depletion of soil carbon and a threat to the survival of wildlife - especially if paired with increase use of herbicides and pesticides (see extinction of the Bees).

The issue of food miles is also an often overlooked factoid - exotic superfoods like quinoa and macadamia nuts and tropical fruits like Mangoes, Avocado, bananas and coconut (for those coconut water smoothies) result in increase carbon-miles and are this worse for the environment than the salmon you fished from the local stream or the lamb chop sourced from 20 miles away.

Vegetarianism only really works if its local and organic, but the same argument applies to meat too...

Except that it lessens the demand of ranching/meat production; which means less land feeds more people. Pesticides and herbicides still have to be used for crops that feed animals and those crops, and it takes a lot more land to do it and produces a lot less food for humans. There are also things like vertical farming that don't even require soil necessarily. Like it or not (barring things related to political and economic systems that go beyond the scope of this thread), it would objectively use less resources and put less of a strain on the agricultural industry and environment if more people ate - not even no meat - but less meat than they do.

That said I think local would be good regardless, just because encouraging people who are able - or communities who are able - to grow their own food helps them quite a bit both economically and health-wise.

[The Alma Mater]

It helps the environment because the lion's share of agricultural emissions are from animal husbandry. Not to mention water and costs on the ecosystem. Research what happened to the American deserts with the introduction of horses and cattle.

Vegatarianism actually does nothing at all for the environment because Industrial Monoculture Horticulture is a net detriment to water and soil quality. We’ve already heard about the affects of Palm Oil and Soy production on the rainforest and its threat to wildlife, but they arent the only culprits.

I thought the need for soy production would be significantly reduced if everyone became a vegetarian, since most of it currently is grown as the basis of animal feed instead of being fed to humans directly ?

[Earthbound Immortal Squad]

It helps the environment because the lion's share of agricultural emissions are from animal husbandry. Not to mention water and costs on the ecosystem. Research what happened to the American deserts with the introduction of horses and cattle.

Vegatarianism actually does nothing at all for the environment because Industrial Monoculture Horticulture is a net detriment to water and soil quality. We’ve already heard about the affects of Palm Oil and Soy production on the rainforest and its threat to wildlife, but they arent the only culprits. Wheat and Rice are the most common global crops and along with tea are the most water intensive commodities. This means that they a overall detrimental especially in the face of increasing drought susceptibility.

Intensification of horticulture from increase demand from Vegetarians leads to a loss of vegetation biodiversity, depletion of soil carbon and a threat to the survival of wildlife - especially if paired with increase use of herbicides and pesticides (see extinction of the Bees).

The issue of food miles is also an often overlooked factoid - exotic superfoods like quinoa and macadamia nuts and tropical fruits like Mangoes, Avocado, bananas and coconut (for those coconut water smoothies) result in increase carbon-miles and are this worse for the environment than the salmon you fished from the local stream or the lamb chop sourced from 20 miles away.

Vegetarianism only really works if its local and organic, but the same argument applies to meat too...

The same argument really applies to everything related to the environment. Switching from one thing to another may help for a short time but it is like a plaster and will come off eventually. If you use product A for something and then switch to product B for the same purpose at the same intensity of use, it may seem like progress but in a short time you will be back to square one. A good example of this is electric cars. Despite how "eco-friendly" they are the vast majority of the electricity is sourced from fossil fuels still and the components for the batteries are often from very scarce or hard to obtain metals and will release some very toxic products after to use. So ultimately in a couple of decades time when those resources run low they will just switch to another source.

https://enviro360.com/health-of-inhabit ... e-at-risk/

Same case here. If lots of people stop eating meat then CO₂ emissions from animals may decrease but then more land is needed to produce the crops necessary for a vegetarian/vegan diet. Which leads to more fertilizer and various implications of that and other implications.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eutrophication

Ultimately though all these quick fixes won't save the planet so the environmentalist argument for becoming a vegetarian or vegan is really either nonsense or helping people to alleviate their guilt, especially in cases of people going from full omnivores to full time vegans.