Producing one pound of beef requires a boatload of water, land, and feed. Beef is the most resource intensive, followed by pork and chicken. Insects require the least amount of resources by far and is a food source for billions of people.
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by Outer Sparta » Tue Feb 04, 2020 7:45 pm
by Vetalia » Tue Feb 04, 2020 7:59 pm
by Outer Sparta » Tue Feb 04, 2020 8:17 pm
Vetalia wrote:Vegetarianism - no problem, it is a natural and historically attested diet that avoids many of the consequences of a meat-heavy diet that supplements with efficient products of agriculture like milk and eggs.
Veganism, though I have a problem with - if your diet requires you to take man-made vitamin supplements to prevent serious diseases of malnutrition to the point of potentially killing a child there is something seriously wrong with it. Like it or not, humans are omnivores and have adapted to a mixed diet of plant and animal products, even if those animal products do not require killing and consuming the animal in question. A strict vegan diet would be a death sentence from scurvy, beriberi or a host of other ailments before modern vitamins became available in the 20th century.
by Nanatsu no Tsuki » Tue Feb 04, 2020 8:18 pm
Outer Sparta wrote:Vetalia wrote:Vegetarianism - no problem, it is a natural and historically attested diet that avoids many of the consequences of a meat-heavy diet that supplements with efficient products of agriculture like milk and eggs.
Veganism, though I have a problem with - if your diet requires you to take man-made vitamin supplements to prevent serious diseases of malnutrition to the point of potentially killing a child there is something seriously wrong with it. Like it or not, humans are omnivores and have adapted to a mixed diet of plant and animal products, even if those animal products do not require killing and consuming the animal in question. A strict vegan diet would be a death sentence from scurvy, beriberi or a host of other ailments before modern vitamins became available in the 20th century.
It's true that a vegan diet isn't attainable for babies and young children, in fact a vegan diet is very dangerous and will kill them. People that are fully grown can be vegans, though finding ways of getting enough vitamin B12 will be a challenge.
Slava Ukraini
Also: THERNSY!!
Your story isn't over;֍Help save transgender people's lives֍Help for feral cats
Cat with internet access||Supposedly heartless, & a d*ck.||Is maith an t-earra an tsíocháin.||No TGsRIP: Dyakovo & Ashmoria
by Outer Sparta » Tue Feb 04, 2020 8:23 pm
Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:Outer Sparta wrote:It's true that a vegan diet isn't attainable for babies and young children, in fact a vegan diet is very dangerous and will kill them. People that are fully grown can be vegans, though finding ways of getting enough vitamin B12 will be a challenge.
If anything, go vegan under doctor’s supervision. I’ve seen some people truly mess themselves up when going vegan because they didn’t inform themselves properly or consulted with a doctor first.
by Nanatsu no Tsuki » Tue Feb 04, 2020 8:25 pm
Outer Sparta wrote:Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
If anything, go vegan under doctor’s supervision. I’ve seen some people truly mess themselves up when going vegan because they didn’t inform themselves properly or consulted with a doctor first.
Going vegan is a huge undertaking. Humans weren't meant to live like full-on herbivores. Even vegetarians get their nutritional needs from animal sources like milk and eggs.
Slava Ukraini
Also: THERNSY!!
Your story isn't over;֍Help save transgender people's lives֍Help for feral cats
Cat with internet access||Supposedly heartless, & a d*ck.||Is maith an t-earra an tsíocháin.||No TGsRIP: Dyakovo & Ashmoria
by Outer Sparta » Tue Feb 04, 2020 8:27 pm
Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:Outer Sparta wrote:Going vegan is a huge undertaking. Humans weren't meant to live like full-on herbivores. Even vegetarians get their nutritional needs from animal sources like milk and eggs.
It is huge, yes, but with the right supervision, right combinations, and vitamins, it is doable. Just, you know, do so under a doctor’s or a nutritionist’s supervision.
by Nanatsu no Tsuki » Tue Feb 04, 2020 8:29 pm
Outer Sparta wrote:Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
It is huge, yes, but with the right supervision, right combinations, and vitamins, it is doable. Just, you know, do so under a doctor’s or a nutritionist’s supervision.
And it's hard to be vegan. I know people who are vegetarian and have tried to be vegan but switched back to vegetarian.
Slava Ukraini
Also: THERNSY!!
Your story isn't over;֍Help save transgender people's lives֍Help for feral cats
Cat with internet access||Supposedly heartless, & a d*ck.||Is maith an t-earra an tsíocháin.||No TGsRIP: Dyakovo & Ashmoria
by Aureumterra » Tue Feb 04, 2020 8:29 pm
Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:Outer Sparta wrote:Going vegan is a huge undertaking. Humans weren't meant to live like full-on herbivores. Even vegetarians get their nutritional needs from animal sources like milk and eggs.
It is huge, yes, but with the right supervision, right combinations, and vitamins, it is doable. Just, you know, do so under a doctor’s or a nutritionist’s supervision.
by Nanatsu no Tsuki » Tue Feb 04, 2020 8:32 pm
Slava Ukraini
Also: THERNSY!!
Your story isn't over;֍Help save transgender people's lives֍Help for feral cats
Cat with internet access||Supposedly heartless, & a d*ck.||Is maith an t-earra an tsíocháin.||No TGsRIP: Dyakovo & Ashmoria
by The Wasatch » Tue Feb 04, 2020 8:32 pm
by Vetalia » Tue Feb 04, 2020 8:49 pm
Outer Sparta wrote:Vetalia wrote:Vegetarianism - no problem, it is a natural and historically attested diet that avoids many of the consequences of a meat-heavy diet that supplements with efficient products of agriculture like milk and eggs.
Veganism, though I have a problem with - if your diet requires you to take man-made vitamin supplements to prevent serious diseases of malnutrition to the point of potentially killing a child there is something seriously wrong with it. Like it or not, humans are omnivores and have adapted to a mixed diet of plant and animal products, even if those animal products do not require killing and consuming the animal in question. A strict vegan diet would be a death sentence from scurvy, beriberi or a host of other ailments before modern vitamins became available in the 20th century.
It's true that a vegan diet isn't attainable for babies and young children, in fact a vegan diet is very dangerous and will kill them. People that are fully grown can be vegans, though finding ways of getting enough vitamin B12 will be a challenge.
by Outer Sparta » Tue Feb 04, 2020 8:55 pm
Vetalia wrote:Outer Sparta wrote:It's true that a vegan diet isn't attainable for babies and young children, in fact a vegan diet is very dangerous and will kill them. People that are fully grown can be vegans, though finding ways of getting enough vitamin B12 will be a challenge.
Or maybe just eat a normal vegetarian ovo-lacto diet your whole life if you want to be sustainable? A made-up fad vegan diet from the 20th century dependent upon man-made vitamins doesn't exactly stack up all that well against the diets that have sustained millions of people in Asia for millenia.
by The Wasatch » Tue Feb 04, 2020 8:57 pm
Outer Sparta wrote:Vetalia wrote:
Or maybe just eat a normal vegetarian ovo-lacto diet your whole life if you want to be sustainable? A made-up fad vegan diet from the 20th century dependent upon man-made vitamins doesn't exactly stack up all that well against the diets that have sustained millions of people in Asia for millenia.
Going vegetarian for a day is easier than it seems. My university cafeterias have many options that suit a myriad of people's needs and preferences.
by Outer Sparta » Tue Feb 04, 2020 9:04 pm
The Wasatch wrote:Outer Sparta wrote:Going vegetarian for a day is easier than it seems. My university cafeterias have many options that suit a myriad of people's needs and preferences.
Quite true. Many of my friends ask how I'm vegetarian, but I hardly eat different than them on an average day. Meat is part of some people's lifestyle, but for many it would be easier than they think.
by The Allied Tribe » Tue Feb 04, 2020 9:09 pm
Nouveau Yathrib wrote:You can do 10 poll options; why isn't flexitarian on there?
2nd Allied Tribe War is over, The Allied Tribe repels an invasion by ATFF | The Allied Tribe officially bans Child Labor, Compulsory Organ Harvesting | The Allied Tribe states that force must be used strictly defensively, begins armed neutrality and cuts aggressive military ties with all nations
by The Wasatch » Tue Feb 04, 2020 9:11 pm
Outer Sparta wrote:The Wasatch wrote:Quite true. Many of my friends ask how I'm vegetarian, but I hardly eat different than them on an average day. Meat is part of some people's lifestyle, but for many it would be easier than they think.
I also like how many airlines are adding full-time vegetarian hot meal options on their flights. US carriers do it well and I've actually enjoyed the vegetarian options on US airlines.
by The Allied Tribe » Tue Feb 04, 2020 9:13 pm
Outer Sparta wrote:Vetalia wrote:
Or maybe just eat a normal vegetarian ovo-lacto diet your whole life if you want to be sustainable? A made-up fad vegan diet from the 20th century dependent upon man-made vitamins doesn't exactly stack up all that well against the diets that have sustained millions of people in Asia for millenia.
Going vegetarian for a day is easier than it seems. My university cafeterias have many options that suit a myriad of people's needs and preferences.
2nd Allied Tribe War is over, The Allied Tribe repels an invasion by ATFF | The Allied Tribe officially bans Child Labor, Compulsory Organ Harvesting | The Allied Tribe states that force must be used strictly defensively, begins armed neutrality and cuts aggressive military ties with all nations
by Outer Sparta » Tue Feb 04, 2020 9:21 pm
The Wasatch wrote:Outer Sparta wrote:I also like how many airlines are adding full-time vegetarian hot meal options on their flights. US carriers do it well and I've actually enjoyed the vegetarian options on US airlines.
Yes. The advances in plant-based "meats" in recent years is astounding. They are ~80% chemically similar to real meat, enough that there is little taste difference. It's nice having a burger every once in a while without the out-sized environmental cost.
by USS Monitor » Tue Feb 04, 2020 11:58 pm
Southern Avarsarstan wrote:The Allied Tribe wrote:
Encouraging people is one of the main goals of vegetarians (even though I’m not specifically one of them) and although most vegetarians encourage non-vegetarians, they will not literally force them to. Also, what about the environment?
I do try to encourage people to be more healthy; learning how to cook (you'd be surprised the impact that only that has on your health), eating more vegetables and fruits, eating less processed and frozen foods, starting a garden if they are able, etc. I understand a vegetarian or vegan diet isn't for everyone, though I do help people along if they want to try to move into that.
I mentioned part, or at least the part I focus on, of the environmental impact in my previous post, its not my personal reason for becoming a vegetarian (I think its important to talk about the way the modern diet puts a strain on the environment, it just isn't the main driving force that led me to be a vegetarian) so I tend to go with what led me to it first.
by Cetacea » Wed Feb 05, 2020 12:23 am
The Wasatch wrote:Aureumterra wrote:I still don’t quite get how it helps the environment
It helps the environment because the lion's share of agricultural emissions are from animal husbandry. Not to mention water and costs on the ecosystem. Research what happened to the American deserts with the introduction of horses and cattle.
by Southern Avarsarstan » Wed Feb 05, 2020 3:56 am
Outer Sparta wrote:It's true that a vegan diet isn't attainable for babies and young children, in fact a vegan diet is very dangerous and will kill them. People that are fully grown can be vegans, though finding ways of getting enough vitamin B12 will be a challenge.
Vetalia wrote:Vegetarianism - no problem, it is a natural and historically attested diet that avoids many of the consequences of a meat-heavy diet that supplements with efficient products of agriculture like milk and eggs.
Veganism, though I have a problem with - if your diet requires you to take man-made vitamin supplements to prevent serious diseases of malnutrition to the point of potentially killing a child there is something seriously wrong with it. Like it or not, humans are omnivores and have adapted to a mixed diet of plant and animal products, even if those animal products do not require killing and consuming the animal in question. A strict vegan diet would be a death sentence from scurvy, beriberi or a host of other ailments before modern vitamins became available in the 20th century.
by Southern Avarsarstan » Wed Feb 05, 2020 4:03 am
Cetacea wrote:The Wasatch wrote:It helps the environment because the lion's share of agricultural emissions are from animal husbandry. Not to mention water and costs on the ecosystem. Research what happened to the American deserts with the introduction of horses and cattle.
Vegatarianism actually does nothing at all for the environment because Industrial Monoculture Horticulture is a net detriment to water and soil quality. We’ve already heard about the affects of Palm Oil and Soy production on the rainforest and its threat to wildlife, but they arent the only culprits. Wheat and Rice are the most common global crops and along with tea are the most water intensive commodities. This means that they a overall detrimental especially in the face of increasing drought susceptibility.
Intensification of horticulture from increase demand from Vegetarians leads to a loss of vegetation biodiversity, depletion of soil carbon and a threat to the survival of wildlife - especially if paired with increase use of herbicides and pesticides (see extinction of the Bees).
The issue of food miles is also an often overlooked factoid - exotic superfoods like quinoa and macadamia nuts and tropical fruits like Mangoes, Avocado, bananas and coconut (for those coconut water smoothies) result in increase carbon-miles and are this worse for the environment than the salmon you fished from the local stream or the lamb chop sourced from 20 miles away.
Vegetarianism only really works if its local and organic, but the same argument applies to meat too...
by The Alma Mater » Wed Feb 05, 2020 9:29 am
Cetacea wrote:The Wasatch wrote:It helps the environment because the lion's share of agricultural emissions are from animal husbandry. Not to mention water and costs on the ecosystem. Research what happened to the American deserts with the introduction of horses and cattle.
Vegatarianism actually does nothing at all for the environment because Industrial Monoculture Horticulture is a net detriment to water and soil quality. We’ve already heard about the affects of Palm Oil and Soy production on the rainforest and its threat to wildlife, but they arent the only culprits.
by Earthbound Immortal Squad » Wed Feb 05, 2020 9:39 am
Cetacea wrote:The Wasatch wrote:It helps the environment because the lion's share of agricultural emissions are from animal husbandry. Not to mention water and costs on the ecosystem. Research what happened to the American deserts with the introduction of horses and cattle.Vegatarianism actually does nothing at all for the environment because Industrial Monoculture Horticulture is a net detriment to water and soil quality. We’ve already heard about the affects of Palm Oil and Soy production on the rainforest and its threat to wildlife, but they arent the only culprits. Wheat and Rice are the most common global crops and along with tea are the most water intensive commodities. This means that they a overall detrimental especially in the face of increasing drought susceptibility.
Intensification of horticulture from increase demand from Vegetarians leads to a loss of vegetation biodiversity, depletion of soil carbon and a threat to the survival of wildlife - especially if paired with increase use of herbicides and pesticides (see extinction of the Bees).
The issue of food miles is also an often overlooked factoid - exotic superfoods like quinoa and macadamia nuts and tropical fruits like Mangoes, Avocado, bananas and coconut (for those coconut water smoothies) result in increase carbon-miles and are this worse for the environment than the salmon you fished from the local stream or the lamb chop sourced from 20 miles away.
Vegetarianism only really works if its local and organic, but the same argument applies to meat too...
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