Why the us should cut useless courses from college degrees.

[Kubra]

I'll never teach college biology, but I took it twice (1001 and 1002), and I definitely came to appreciate it more. There's nothing wrong with being a well-rounded individual, and honestly we should push for more kids in higher AND lower grades to be well-rounded in a variety of topics.

There's nothing wrong with not being well rounded either. Life will go on if people aren't well rounded.

what if these less-than-well-rounded folks end up voting

[Cannot think of a name]

Mechanics, too. I mean this is a golden era for trades, the pays gone up *considerably* but the perception keeps prospective students out.

Many people (including myself) are just simply unaware of any trade schools/apprenticeship programs in their locale. K-12 guidance counselors and teachers for example, are still routing graduating teens to college no matter what. Only colleges/universities are all that visible. The trades could use more advertising/recruiters.

I think that's what job fairs and career fairs are supposed to do. Also the classes like autoshop and industrial arts are supposed to identify students with an aptitude for those skills and shepard towards the right areas. There are trade schools that advertise in the afternoon I guess presumably when people without a job are watching TV (I guess streaming killed this), like the Universal Technical Institute that aside from sharing initials with urinary tract infection teaches mechanical skills as well as welding and CNC machining. That one probably is first in my mind because I watch a lot of racing.

Community colleges, at least in California, offer trade programs including HVAC, mechanics, etc. I think that some of that problem of 'just got to trade school' is that a lot of them are private and just as if not more expensive than regular college and if that trade doesn't work out you have to start from scratch. With a four year degree...mine has gotten me jobs not specific to my degree just because the degree inherently comes with a more generic set of applicable skills.

Like, $25k for a two year school on aeronautics? Trade schools seem to be not immune from the trap that college can be, an expensive gamble on your future. I've wandered from my original point but the issue doesn't seem to be 'people are learning things I don't like" or even "I had to learn things I don't like" but rather take the giant gamble out of higher education regardless of whether it's a 'trade' or whatever we call a job that isn't a trade.

[Cannot think of a name]

Indeed. And having a broad understanding of different subjects also helps people switch gears when they find the particular job they've studied for has more applicants than positions -- and lo and behold, you might discover an aptitude/love of something you would not have thought to try on your own.

And what about those of us who never have and never will study something else? Why should we suffer because other people are too incompetent to do research into whether their degree has good employment outcomes?

How are you suffering?

[The Republic of Fore]

There's nothing wrong with not being well rounded either. Life will go on if people aren't well rounded.

what if these less-than-well-rounded folks end up voting

What if people who were dumb enough to waste six figures on an art history degree and now think It's society's fault they can't get a better job than Starbucks end up voting? Oh wait, they do.

[The Republic of Fore]

And what about those of us who never have and never will study something else? Why should we suffer because other people are too incompetent to do research into whether their degree has good employment outcomes?

How are you suffering?

Forced to waste time and money on something I won't need. And didn't learn anything from.

[Kubra]

Many people (including myself) are just simply unaware of any trade schools/apprenticeship programs in their locale. K-12 guidance counselors and teachers for example, are still routing graduating teens to college no matter what. Only colleges/universities are all that visible. The trades could use more advertising/recruiters.

I think that's what job fairs and career fairs are supposed to do. Also the classes like autoshop and industrial arts are supposed to identify students with an aptitude for those skills and shepard towards the right areas. There are trade schools that advertise in the afternoon I guess presumably when people without a job are watching TV (I guess streaming killed this), like the Universal Technical Institute that aside from sharing initials with urinary tract infection teaches mechanical skills as well as welding and CNC machining. That one probably is first in my mind because I watch a lot of racing.

Community colleges, at least in California, offer trade programs including HVAC, mechanics, etc. I think that some of that problem of 'just got to trade school' is that a lot of them are private and just as if not more expensive than regular college and if that trade doesn't work out you have to start from scratch. With a four year degree...mine has gotten me jobs not specific to my degree just because the degree inherently comes with a more generic set of applicable skills.

Like, $25k for a two year school on aeronautics? Trade schools seem to be not immune from the trap that college can be, an expensive gamble on your future. I've wandered from my original point but the issue doesn't seem to be 'people are learning things I don't like" or even "I had to learn things I don't like" but rather take the giant gamble out of higher education regardless of whether it's a 'trade' or whatever we call a job that isn't a trade.

the difference with uni's and polytechnics is they're super up-front that they're there to teach you stuff to get a job with, so it's a simple matter: "here's the median salary, here's the grad employment rate, this is what it'll cost you. Take it or leave it." Sure, it's still a gamble, but because what you can do with it isn't so varied (a degree in anything can take you almost anywhere, from the real highs to the *real* lows) it's much easier to figure out how you're gonna do with it.

[Kubra]

what if these less-than-well-rounded folks end up voting

What if people who were dumb enough to waste six figures on an art history degree and now think It's society's fault they can't get a better job than Starbucks end up voting? Oh wait, they do.

Least they know the issues bro
went the university for that shit

[Saiwania]

And what about those of us who never have and never will study something else? Why should we suffer because other people are too incompetent to do research into whether their degree has good employment outcomes?

The only sure and safe degrees for the most part, are Law, Medicine, Engineering, or Financial. The other degrees, people can't know for sure what will be in demand to what extent, because it takes too long to get the degree, whether it'll be boom or recession the year you finish. Its a big hassle to find courses that're offered in a given semester if your degree program isn't popular enough. It could cause you to take longer than it would otherwise to graduate.

So if you're going to college, its extra important to pick something that'll have plenty of qualifying courses each semester. Tech seemed like a sure thing that was cool, but I should've known better. Besides, tech has pretty bad ageism compared to most other lines of work.

[Cannot think of a name]

what if these less-than-well-rounded folks end up voting

What if people who were dumb enough to waste six figures on an art history degree and now think It's society's fault they can't get a better job than Starbucks end up voting? Oh wait, they do.

Just for giggles can we produce just one art major who had a six figure college education working at Starbucks and blaming it on society? I'm not looking for a statistically significant number of them, or any indication that such a creature has any bearing on any decision we make, I'd just like to see this one person actually existing since they're always brought up in these conversations.

I feel like I should have seen one by now, working in the arts and having friends who are artists, but I have yet to come across one myself.

[The Republic of Fore]

Many people (including myself) are just simply unaware of any trade schools/apprenticeship programs in their locale. K-12 guidance counselors and teachers for example, are still routing graduating teens to college no matter what. Only colleges/universities are all that visible. The trades could use more advertising/recruiters.

I think that's what job fairs and career fairs are supposed to do. Also the classes like autoshop and industrial arts are supposed to identify students with an aptitude for those skills and shepard towards the right areas. There are trade schools that advertise in the afternoon I guess presumably when people without a job are watching TV (I guess streaming killed this), like the Universal Technical Institute that aside from sharing initials with urinary tract infection teaches mechanical skills as well as welding and CNC machining. That one probably is first in my mind because I watch a lot of racing.

Community colleges, at least in California, offer trade programs including HVAC, mechanics, etc. I think that some of that problem of 'just got to trade school' is that a lot of them are private and just as if not more expensive than regular college and if that trade doesn't work out you have to start from scratch. With a four year degree...mine has gotten me jobs not specific to my degree just because the degree inherently comes with a more generic set of applicable skills.

Like, $25k for a two year school on aeronautics? Trade schools seem to be not immune from the trap that college can be, an expensive gamble on your future. I've wandered from my original point but the issue doesn't seem to be 'people are learning things I don't like" or even "I had to learn things I don't like" but rather take the giant gamble out of higher education regardless of whether it's a 'trade' or whatever we call a job that isn't a trade.

Yeah the sad thing is that less and less schools are offering shop or industrial arts. I know someone is going to say this is just anecdotal, but when I was in middle school we had a class called Sci-ma- tech. We did things like build catapults, and learn how to use power tools. Perfect for sparking the interests of future engineers, or craftsmen. The school got rid of it after one year.

[Jebslund]

Indeed. And having a broad understanding of different subjects also helps people switch gears when they find the particular job they've studied for has more applicants than positions -- and lo and behold, you might discover an aptitude/love of something you would not have thought to try on your own.

And what about those of us who never have and never will study something else? Why should we suffer because other people are too incompetent to do research into whether their degree has good employment outcomes?

Because degrees aren't always so polite as to become obsolete before graduation or not at all (or even before withdrawal deadlines). If someone went into a degree with employment in a field that has more positions than applicants, but the market changes just after the deadline for withdrawal of the last semester, does that make them incompetent or unlucky?

[Kubra]

What if people who were dumb enough to waste six figures on an art history degree and now think It's society's fault they can't get a better job than Starbucks end up voting? Oh wait, they do.

Just for giggles can we produce just one art major who had a six figure college education working at Starbucks and blaming it on society? I'm not looking for a statistically significant number of them, or any indication that such a creature has any bearing on any decision we make, I'd just like to see this one person actually existing since they're always brought up in these conversations.

I feel like I should have seen one by now, working in the arts and having friends who are artists, but I have yet to come across one myself.

Bad question man, "art majors" are a few million people (like most degrees). You can probably find anyone with any degree if you go to enough Starbuck's.

[Imperial Joseon]

And what about those of us who never have and never will study something else? Why should we suffer because other people are too incompetent to do research into whether their degree has good employment outcomes?

Because degrees aren't always so polite as to become obsolete before graduation or not at all (or even before withdrawal deadlines). If someone went into a degree with employment in a field that has more positions than applicants, but the market changes just after the deadline for withdrawal of the last semester, does that make them incompetent or unlucky?

That's why people double major or have minors.

[The Republic of Fore]

What if people who were dumb enough to waste six figures on an art history degree and now think It's society's fault they can't get a better job than Starbucks end up voting? Oh wait, they do.

Just for giggles can we produce just one art major who had a six figure college education working at Starbucks and blaming it on society? I'm not looking for a statistically significant number of them, or any indication that such a creature has any bearing on any decision we make, I'd just like to see this one person actually existing since they're always brought up in these conversations.

I feel like I should have seen one by now, working in the arts and having friends who are artists, but I have yet to come across one myself.

Yeah, I knew more than a few of them when I lived in Seattle. Just because you haven't seen something doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. I also knew someone who was in college so long without even finishing her gen ED that the govt refused to keep letting her borrow student loans. Does she admit that failure? OF course not. It's the systems fault man!

[Cannot think of a name]

I think that's what job fairs and career fairs are supposed to do. Also the classes like autoshop and industrial arts are supposed to identify students with an aptitude for those skills and shepard towards the right areas. There are trade schools that advertise in the afternoon I guess presumably when people without a job are watching TV (I guess streaming killed this), like the Universal Technical Institute that aside from sharing initials with urinary tract infection teaches mechanical skills as well as welding and CNC machining. That one probably is first in my mind because I watch a lot of racing.

Community colleges, at least in California, offer trade programs including HVAC, mechanics, etc. I think that some of that problem of 'just got to trade school' is that a lot of them are private and just as if not more expensive than regular college and if that trade doesn't work out you have to start from scratch. With a four year degree...mine has gotten me jobs not specific to my degree just because the degree inherently comes with a more generic set of applicable skills.

Like, $25k for a two year school on aeronautics? Trade schools seem to be not immune from the trap that college can be, an expensive gamble on your future. I've wandered from my original point but the issue doesn't seem to be 'people are learning things I don't like" or even "I had to learn things I don't like" but rather take the giant gamble out of higher education regardless of whether it's a 'trade' or whatever we call a job that isn't a trade.

the difference with uni's and polytechnics is they're super up-front that they're there to teach you stuff to get a job with, so it's a simple matter: "here's the median salary, here's the grad employment rate, this is what it'll cost you. Take it or leave it." Sure, it's still a gamble, but because what you can do with it isn't so varied (a degree in anything can take you almost anywhere, from the real highs to the *real* lows) it's much easier to figure out how you're gonna do with it.

My university gave me graduation rates, employment rates, and salary ranges for the school and the various majors. This is not really a distinction. Also, my university which is part of a system that's considered one of the better ones in the country didn't cost twelve and half grand a year.

There was a bit of a blood bath a few years ago when a lot of these private trade schools were shut down either for false promises or just unable to sustain themselves. There's a bit too much caveat emptor in those numbers for everyone.

[Imperial Joseon]

Just for giggles can we produce just one art major who had a six figure college education working at Starbucks and blaming it on society? I'm not looking for a statistically significant number of them, or any indication that such a creature has any bearing on any decision we make, I'd just like to see this one person actually existing since they're always brought up in these conversations.

I feel like I should have seen one by now, working in the arts and having friends who are artists, but I have yet to come across one myself.

Yeah, I knew more than a few of them when I lived in Seattle. Just because you haven't seen something doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. I also knew someone who was in college so long without even finishing her gen ED that the govt refused to keep letting her borrow student loans. Does she admit that failure? OF course not. It's the systems fault man!

Well, you need to live, so you need to adjust to what the society demands.

[The Republic of Fore]

And what about those of us who never have and never will study something else? Why should we suffer because other people are too incompetent to do research into whether their degree has good employment outcomes?

Because degrees aren't always so polite as to become obsolete before graduation or not at all (or even before withdrawal deadlines). If someone went into a degree with employment in a field that has more positions than applicants, but the market changes just after the deadline for withdrawal of the last semester, does that make them incompetent or unlucky?

That might make them unlucky, but what are the odds of that actually happening? If we're going to worry about the irrelevant one in a million, then why go to college at all? Any degree could become outdated.

[The Republic of Fore]

Yeah, I knew more than a few of them when I lived in Seattle. Just because you haven't seen something doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. I also knew someone who was in college so long without even finishing her gen ED that the govt refused to keep letting her borrow student loans. Does she admit that failure? OF course not. It's the systems fault man!

Well, you need to live, so you need to adjust to what the society demands.

There are many ways to live without going to college.

[Imperial Joseon]

Well, you need to live, so you need to adjust to what the society demands.

There are many ways to live without going to college.

Certificates or licenses, although the latter usually requires a college degree.

[Saiwania]

That might make them unlucky, but what are the odds of that actually happening? If we're going to worry about the irrelevant one in a million, then why go to college at all? Any degree could become outdated.

A select few degrees are recession proof for the most part, but they tend to be very hard to execute on or stay dedicated to. But if you get in- man are you set for life. Dental school is expensive, but almost always pays off, even if you become just a hygenist. You can find work anywhere in the country or perhaps the world, if your qualifications are recognized.

If a bad tooth needs cleaning/fixing, it more or less has to be done. So the customer is a captive market.

[Deacarsia]

There's often a lot of talk about how to improve the education system in the US. Personally, there's one simple idea we can start with. Stop forcing classes on students that have nothing to do with their chosen field of study, or have little real world application like art or humanities. Not only would it save them time and money, but high schools could replace them with more useful subjects, such as teaching students how to file taxes. What say you NSG?

Multicultural children's literature. Big dumb my guy. I had to take that shit and a multicultural studies class in college and they fucking sucked. Had some older white lady telling us about the African roots of black American culture (I always felt black American culture was far more similar to white American culture than to Africa but whatever) and bringing up other accidentally stereotypical shit too, like why Muslim women in the near East don't dye their hair because they wear hijabs (not all Muslim women wear those btw and Arab women actually dye their hair alot) and why white Americans are complicit in racism (pretty sure most white folks aren't racists but yeah, why don't you blame your own race for that while I defend them).

That was Multicultural studies. Multicultural children's lit was all this stuff about African children and shit. Imagine goodnight moon but it's some Ugandan child and he's hunting lions and whatever the hell else he does (this was an actual story btw although to be serious it had nothing to do with good night moon). Not only were we being forced to read literature that came from cultures no one even heard of, but they were literally baby books. Like come on.

I'm totally for cutting any classes related to social justice. Most of them are absolutely meaningless. Your future jobs wants to see your qualifications and knowing alot about theories of power and oppression doesn't make you look smart. It does quite the opposite

And before anyone says "but people gotta learn tolerance," I just wanna say right now that a college class cannot teach you to not be a racist. Either you aren't one like most people or you are one and college won't stop that. I'm pretty sure that without these multicultural clssses, 90% of people could still treat a person of a different race respectfully and not start screaming racial slurs at them

I like the idea of people getting some experience with subjects outside their degree. Education, especially higher education, should be about understanding more about the world, not just about getting a piece of paper that qualifies you for a job.

I could not agree more.

[Imperial Joseon]

That might make them unlucky, but what are the odds of that actually happening? If we're going to worry about the irrelevant one in a million, then why go to college at all? Any degree could become outdated.

A select few degrees are recession proof for the most part, but they tend to be very hard to execute on or stay dedicated to. But if you get in- man are you set for life. Dental school is expensive, but almost always pays off, even if you become just a hygenist. You can find work anywhere in the country or perhaps the world, if your qualifications are recognized.

If a bad tooth needs cleaning/fixing, it more or less has to be done. So the customer is a captive market.

The problem is the student loan. Once you receive your dental degree and start working, you will have to pay off that debt until you're forty, say you become a dentist at the age of thirty.

[The Republic of Fore]

There are many ways to live without going to college.

Certificates or licenses, although the latter usually requires a college degree.

Or just working. If you're smart with your money you can survive. But you might not have an 800$ smart phone or money to waste getting coffee everyday. So a lot of people don't want that.

[The Republic of Fore]

A select few degrees are recession proof for the most part, but they tend to be very hard to execute on or stay dedicated to. But if you get in- man are you set for life. Dental school is expensive, but almost always pays off, even if you become just a hygenist. You can find work anywhere in the country or perhaps the world, if your qualifications are recognized.

If a bad tooth needs cleaning/fixing, it more or less has to be done. So the customer is a captive market.

The problem is the student loan. Once you receive your dental degree and start working, you will have to pay off that debt until you're forty, say you become a dentist at the age of thirty.

No you won't. There's many ways for doctors to get their loans forgiven.

[Imperial Joseon]

The problem is the student loan. Once you receive your dental degree and start working, you will have to pay off that debt until you're forty, say you become a dentist at the age of thirty.

No you won't. There's many ways for doctors to get their loans forgiven.

Depends on which country you obtain your degree.