Why the us should cut useless courses from college degrees.

[Katganistan]

I like the idea of people getting some experience with subjects outside their degree. Education, especially higher education, should be about understanding more about the world, not just about getting a piece of paper that qualifies you for a job.

Indeed. And having a broad understanding of different subjects also helps people switch gears when they find the particular job they've studied for has more applicants than positions -- and lo and behold, you might discover an aptitude/love of something you would not have thought to try on your own.

[Rojava Free State]

I was talking about highschool when I mentioned world history class. College is a totally different ballgame, as I've learned from experience (yeah, I know everyone here is shocked that a dumbass like me got into college but I did, and it's 110% different than your average American public school).

College ain't all that. Sure, elitist colleges won't accept you if you don't have good extracurriculars, good grades, being well rounded or whatever the hell admissions people look for. But generally speaking, any Community College takes in anyone who graduated high school or has a GED and can afford the tuition. Do well enough at a Community College, and maybe you might qualify for a higher level University in your state, if not the Ivy League.

Nearly anyone can get into a college practically speaking. Its just a matter of money or having the right background for what they want.

The dumbest of the dumb tend not to go to college tho. It's not really their thing. Not saying everyone there is einstein but I'm setting the bar low

[Saiwania]

Indeed. And having a broad understanding of different subjects also helps people switch gears when they find the particular job they've studied for has more applicants than positions -- and lo and behold, you might discover an aptitude/love of something you would not have thought to try on your own.

But how are people going to have the luxury to just change their degree if they're too far along in it? Its too damn expensive to take every class you want to take, if you don't have a full ride scholarship or something special.

[Katganistan]

Who is 'they' and what do they 'want to hear'?

Kids. They may not be thrilled about a tax return class but they need to learn it, unlike world history which while interesting is simply not necessary for them to function in the world

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." -- George Santayana.

[Rojava Free State]

Kids. They may not be thrilled about a tax return class but they need to learn it, unlike world history which while interesting is simply not necessary for them to function in the world

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." -- George Santayana.

I really have a feeling that a lot of people here have never dealt with someone who was a total idiot. You all seem to have a lot of hope in these kids to all learn complex material and you seem to think they're gonna become great women and great men when many of them just don't

[Katganistan]

The idea that arts and humanities are useless is ridiculous. Especially so in a system like the one America has where, as I understand it, you study multiple things.

Arts and humanities shouldn't be cut imo but it would be ridiculous to make them compulsory. Let the creative kids have art, and let the not so creative kids learn how to hammer together a chair and mass produced baseball bats

In other words, you have no idea what education is for, and condemn a lot of other people for being stupid/inferior to you.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." -- George Santayana.

I really have a feeling that a lot of people here have never dealt with someone who was a total idiot. You all seem to have a lot of hope in these kids to all learn complex material and you seem to think they're gonna become great women and great men when many of them just don't

But you don’t exactly know for sure what any of these kids will become. All you have is your own experience, which doesn’t need to translate to theirs.

[Kubra]

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." -- George Santayana.

I really have a feeling that a lot of people here have never dealt with someone who was a total idiot. You all seem to have a lot of hope in these kids to all learn complex material and you seem to think they're gonna become great women and great men when many of them just don't

they might become voters tho

[Ifreann]

I don't know if I've ever been offended by one of your posts. I just think you're wrong. A lot.


I don't know where you got the idea that I'm any kind of teacher. I mean, if your boy Mookie has some good hook ups then sure, if I ever find myself in Harlem we can talk, but I don't think I've ever suggested that I personally can teach anyone anything. I try to share some of the things I've learned with people on NSG, but I'm pretty sure that most of the time I'd be as well whistling in a wind tunnel. I do it just because it feels good to do it, not because I think I'm actually getting to people.

I don't want to brag, but yeah, I think I do know better than you on this score. You're out here saying that some people are just inherently intellectually inferior, and that is complete and total shit.

Actually I was wrong about you knowing less about it than me. In truth, you don't know anything about it at all. you have not met the same kinds of folks that I have and yet "you know better." Yeah, sure, once again how about you explain to me and everyone else here how mookie can be made a well rounded member of society. Tell me why we should force him to take a world history class that he doesn't give a shit about.

Do you even hear yourself? I say that I think that people can benefit from breadth in learning, not just depth, and that people can learn new things, even if some people learn in different ways than others. And your response to this is like "Oh yeah? Well prove that you personally can teach literally any person to achieve my personal ideal of proper citizenship". When did I ever say anything about well-rounded members of society or forcing anyone to take any classes? You act like you are some kind of intellectual superior to people who deal drugs, but you aren't even comprehending the posts you're responding to. It's kinda bullshit. How about this, how about you prove that the shit you say about some people just being unable to understand "higher ideas" is true. Provide evidence to support that claim. Not just anecdotes about your time in school, solid and incontrovertible proof that the human species can be divided by intellectual ability. Until you provide that, I reject your assertions, because what you can assert to be true without evidence, I can reject as false without evidence.

as for me being wrong alot,I think there's many a person who could say the same about you.

I'm sure that's true. I have no doubt that I am frequently wrong and also that there are people who think that I am always wrong, even when I'm right.

I should have known not to tell a joke with you around considering how that joke about SJWs never even seeing a gun totally flew over your head. You really quoted my joke in an attempt to make me look like an idiot. Don't even try it

You know as well that I do that "Uh, it's a joke, gawd" is an after the fact excuse to try and shut down criticism. Jokes aren't just some noise you make that doesn't mean anything. So jokes can be criticised. Jokes can be taken seriously to make a point. Jokes have intention behind them. When a person makes a joke, that joke says something about that person.

[Katganistan]

I may not tell if this is sarcasm, so dont barade me if it is
I dont think its as much as thinking about gender, its more of a, why is their a course that costs up to 30k?
I mean, the easiest way to think about gender is to look down your jeans, but honestly it doesnt seem worth it to go to college for gender studies, and woman studies, just so all the people that decided they take that class complain that woman don't go....into....stem courses....
Doesnt make sense to me but its whatever, your the one spending the money.

From a pragmatic point of view, no course should cost up to $30k.

Where is that course? Trump University?

[Rojava Free State]

Actually I was wrong about you knowing less about it than me. In truth, you don't know anything about it at all. you have not met the same kinds of folks that I have and yet "you know better." Yeah, sure, once again how about you explain to me and everyone else here how mookie can be made a well rounded member of society. Tell me why we should force him to take a world history class that he doesn't give a shit about.

Do you even hear yourself? I say that I think that people can benefit from breadth in learning, not just depth, and that people can learn new things, even if some people learn in different ways than others. And your response to this is like "Oh yeah? Well prove that you personally can teach literally any person to achieve my personal ideal of proper citizenship". When did I ever say anything about well-rounded members of society or forcing anyone to take any classes? You act like you are some kind of intellectual superior to people who deal drugs, but you aren't even comprehending the posts you're responding to. It's kinda bullshit. How about this, how about you prove that the shit you say about some people just being unable to understand "higher ideas" is true. Provide evidence to support that claim. Not just anecdotes about your time in school, solid and incontrovertible proof that the human species can be divided by intellectual ability. Until you provide that, I reject your assertions, because what you can assert to be true without evidence, I can reject as false without evidence.

as for me being wrong alot,I think there's many a person who could say the same about you.

I'm sure that's true. I have no doubt that I am frequently wrong and also that there are people who think that I am always wrong, even when I'm right.

I should have known not to tell a joke with you around considering how that joke about SJWs never even seeing a gun totally flew over your head. You really quoted my joke in an attempt to make me look like an idiot. Don't even try it

You know as well that I do that "Uh, it's a joke, gawd" is an after the fact excuse to try and shut down criticism. Jokes aren't just some noise you make that doesn't mean anything. So jokes can be criticised. Jokes can be taken seriously to make a point. Jokes have intention behind them. When a person makes a joke, that joke says something about that person.

Whatever, I'm not about to go out and do a scientific study regarding individuals that I can't stand, especially when I don't have the time, so you can believe whatever you want. It doesn't change the fact that you quoted a joke I made like you're trying to portray me as a hypocrite and a dumbass.

[Chernoslavia]

Actually I was wrong about you knowing less about it than me. In truth, you don't know anything about it at all. you have not met the same kinds of folks that I have and yet "you know better." Yeah, sure, once again how about you explain to me and everyone else here how mookie can be made a well rounded member of society. Tell me why we should force him to take a world history class that he doesn't give a shit about.

Do you even hear yourself? I say that I think that people can benefit from breadth in learning, not just depth, and that people can learn new things, even if some people learn in different ways than others. And your response to this is like "Oh yeah? Well prove that you personally can teach literally any person to achieve my personal ideal of proper citizenship". When did I ever say anything about well-rounded members of society or forcing anyone to take any classes? You act like you are some kind of intellectual superior to people who deal drugs, but you aren't even comprehending the posts you're responding to. It's kinda bullshit. How about this, how about you prove that the shit you say about some people just being unable to understand "higher ideas" is true. Provide evidence to support that claim. Not just anecdotes about your time in school, solid and incontrovertible proof that the human species can be divided by intellectual ability. Until you provide that, I reject your assertions, because what you can assert to be true without evidence, I can reject as false without evidence.

as for me being wrong alot,I think there's many a person who could say the same about you.

I'm sure that's true. I have no doubt that I am frequently wrong and also that there are people who think that I am always wrong, even when I'm right.

I should have known not to tell a joke with you around considering how that joke about SJWs never even seeing a gun totally flew over your head. You really quoted my joke in an attempt to make me look like an idiot. Don't even try it

You know as well that I do that "Uh, it's a joke, gawd" is an after the fact excuse to try and shut down criticism. Jokes aren't just some noise you make that doesn't mean anything. So jokes can be criticised. Jokes can be taken seriously to make a point. Jokes have intention behind them. When a person makes a joke, that joke says something about that person.

So if I make a joke about rape, I'm a rapist?

[Rojava Free State]

Arts and humanities shouldn't be cut imo but it would be ridiculous to make them compulsory. Let the creative kids have art, and let the not so creative kids learn how to hammer together a chair and mass produced baseball bats

In other words, you have no idea what education is for, and condemn a lot of other people for being stupid/inferior to you.

considering that we once had a kid get up in my science class and challenge the teacher on evolution, claiming the pope said it never happened (the pope hasn't denied evolution btw so it's even dumber that he said that) I 100% believe folks like him should not be forced into a class that's out of their league.

Education is so kids can become functioning adults in the world. Teaching evolution to a guy who doesn't even know his own religion's opinion on the issue is a waste of resources, and he should instead be steered toward something on his level, like woodshop

[Rojava Free State]

Do you even hear yourself? I say that I think that people can benefit from breadth in learning, not just depth, and that people can learn new things, even if some people learn in different ways than others. And your response to this is like "Oh yeah? Well prove that you personally can teach literally any person to achieve my personal ideal of proper citizenship". When did I ever say anything about well-rounded members of society or forcing anyone to take any classes? You act like you are some kind of intellectual superior to people who deal drugs, but you aren't even comprehending the posts you're responding to. It's kinda bullshit. How about this, how about you prove that the shit you say about some people just being unable to understand "higher ideas" is true. Provide evidence to support that claim. Not just anecdotes about your time in school, solid and incontrovertible proof that the human species can be divided by intellectual ability. Until you provide that, I reject your assertions, because what you can assert to be true without evidence, I can reject as false without evidence.


I'm sure that's true. I have no doubt that I am frequently wrong and also that there are people who think that I am always wrong, even when I'm right.

You know as well that I do that "Uh, it's a joke, gawd" is an after the fact excuse to try and shut down criticism. Jokes aren't just some noise you make that doesn't mean anything. So jokes can be criticised. Jokes can be taken seriously to make a point. Jokes have intention behind them. When a person makes a joke, that joke says something about that person.

So if I make a joke about rape, I'm a rapist?

Ifreann literally started an argument over a joke, and the worst thing is the argument had nothing to do with the joke I made. He just saw an opportunity to try and portray me as some immature idiot and he took it. from now on we can't make any jokes or it means we're dumb

[Cekoviu]

Oh, so now we're cutting core K-12 curricula because people don't want to do it. Fantastic.

By the time someone is in highschool, they have years of experience with being an idiot. Once again I went to school with a bunch of numbskulls, and what you're all suggesting is that the total wastes of shit I had to sit next to for years on end shouldn't have been separated from the smarter kids and put in a class more fitting for them.

Why do we have a person who's main hobby is popping addies in a class about ancient mesopotamia? Can you really say that makes sense without laughing at the idea?

It's really odd how you think you know so much about how the educational system should operate based solely on street smarts. Hopefully you realize that you're ignoring literal centuries of pedagogical development and the current state of learning theory as developed by countless cognitive scientists in favor of this simplistic garbage.

[Cekoviu]

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." -- George Santayana.

I really have a feeling that a lot of people here have never dealt with someone who was a total idiot. You all seem to have a lot of hope in these kids to all learn complex material and you seem to think they're gonna become great women and great men when many of them just don't

Ever heard of the term "self-fulfilling prophecy"?

[Rojava Free State]

By the time someone is in highschool, they have years of experience with being an idiot. Once again I went to school with a bunch of numbskulls, and what you're all suggesting is that the total wastes of shit I had to sit next to for years on end shouldn't have been separated from the smarter kids and put in a class more fitting for them.

Why do we have a person who's main hobby is popping addies in a class about ancient mesopotamia? Can you really say that makes sense without laughing at the idea?

It's really odd how you think you know so much about how the educational system should operate based solely on street smarts. Hopefully you realize that you're ignoring literal centuries of pedagogical development and the current state of learning theory as developed by countless cognitive scientists in favor of this simplistic garbage.

I want you to imagine someone who says things as dumb as the stuff trump says, ok? Now imagine putting a guy like that in an algebra class. do you really think that's a good idea? Seriously?

[Katganistan]

The American school system isn't stolen from nineteenth-century Prussian military academies by accident. The purpose of schooling is to prepare children for jobs. It is meant to provide them with life skills and things they need to know. My taxpayer dollars should be teaching children to read, write, do arithmatic, balance a budget, and understand how their government works.

It is perhaps partially my fault in that I just didn't do enough with my life. But the US' K-12 system in my locale has objectively speaking, failed to prepare me for any job. The same is true for a state community college I went to and successfully got a 2 year degree from.

I graduated high school when the US economy was in a severe recession, and graduated college six years after and have been unemployed the entire time. People give me different answers for what I need to do to become employable, but for the most part- it doesn't help. What do I truly need to do if starting with a blank resume and nothing anyone wants or is interested in, and have a lost decade or more in terms of age?

Flip burgers. Seriously. NO ONE should be unemployed that long, and everyone seems to think jobs are 'beneath them'.

I delivered newspapers in junior high. I worked as a receptionist in H&R Block during tax season when I was in high school. I worked at Macy's as a cashier while looking for more permanent work in the city. I worked as an editorial assistant for a text book publishing company.

Those were starter jobs and yes, they were shitty, but then I had something to put on a resume -- evidence that I was reliable, could learn to do very different skills, that I was employable.

Then I worked for a media corporation in Midtown Manhattan for seven years, before deciding to become a teacher.

And that, dear friends, is what having a broad-based, liberal arts education gets you. Literally my background was applicable to every job I took (past high school) because I had the ability to speak well, write well, and read closely in addition to, as I said, broad knowledge about history, economics, sciences, psychology, et al.

I know someone who studied biology and forestry who is employed not in her field but as a hotel receptionist, because there aren't enough jobs in her chosen course of study in comparison to everyone who studied for it.

Narrow focus simply means that if you misjudged the marketability of your very narrow skill set, you're fucked.

[Saiwania]

I want you to imagine someone who says things as dumb as the stuff trump says, ok? Now imagine putting a guy like that in an algebra class. do you really think that's a good idea? Seriously?

It is if they can pass the course without cheating. I didn't know algebra either until I learned the steps to solve each problem, then practiced it. Then once I was back in the real world, I don't know algebra once again. Because I have few to no scenarios where I ever have to use Algebra. You'll lose what you don't use.

Anyhow, I put in the work and passed Algebra with flying colors. Because its math, all you need to do is put in the work. Its not exactly rocket science.

[Rojava Free State]

I want you to imagine someone who says things as dumb as the stuff trump says, ok? Now imagine putting a guy like that in an algebra class. do you really think that's a good idea? Seriously?

It is if they can pass the course without cheating. I didn't know algebra either until I learned the steps to solve each problem, then practiced it. Then once I was back in the real world, I don't know algebra once again. Because I have few to no scenarios where I ever have to use Algebra. You'll lose what you don't use.

and what if they don't even wanna try?

Don't you think it would be better if advanced stuff like that was aimed at kids who could learn it and who would put the effort in?

[Neu California]

In other words, you have no idea what education is for, and condemn a lot of other people for being stupid/inferior to you.

considering that we once had a kid get up in my science class and challenge the teacher on evolution, claiming the pope said it never happened (the pope hasn't denied evolution btw so it's even dumber that he said that) I 100% believe folks like him should not be forced into a class that's out of their league.

Education is so kids can become functioning adults in the world. Teaching evolution to a guy who doesn't even know his own religion's opinion on the issue is a waste of resources, and he should instead be steered toward something on his level, like woodshop

Anecdotes are not evidence of anything

[Rojava Free State]

considering that we once had a kid get up in my science class and challenge the teacher on evolution, claiming the pope said it never happened (the pope hasn't denied evolution btw so it's even dumber that he said that) I 100% believe folks like him should not be forced into a class that's out of their league.

Education is so kids can become functioning adults in the world. Teaching evolution to a guy who doesn't even know his own religion's opinion on the issue is a waste of resources, and he should instead be steered toward something on his level, like woodshop

Anecdotes are not evidence of anything

If kids like this exist in large numbers, I would say it means something. Clearly you can't make everyone a mathematician

[Ifreann]

Do you even hear yourself? I say that I think that people can benefit from breadth in learning, not just depth, and that people can learn new things, even if some people learn in different ways than others. And your response to this is like "Oh yeah? Well prove that you personally can teach literally any person to achieve my personal ideal of proper citizenship". When did I ever say anything about well-rounded members of society or forcing anyone to take any classes? You act like you are some kind of intellectual superior to people who deal drugs, but you aren't even comprehending the posts you're responding to. It's kinda bullshit. How about this, how about you prove that the shit you say about some people just being unable to understand "higher ideas" is true. Provide evidence to support that claim. Not just anecdotes about your time in school, solid and incontrovertible proof that the human species can be divided by intellectual ability. Until you provide that, I reject your assertions, because what you can assert to be true without evidence, I can reject as false without evidence.


I'm sure that's true. I have no doubt that I am frequently wrong and also that there are people who think that I am always wrong, even when I'm right.

You know as well that I do that "Uh, it's a joke, gawd" is an after the fact excuse to try and shut down criticism. Jokes aren't just some noise you make that doesn't mean anything. So jokes can be criticised. Jokes can be taken seriously to make a point. Jokes have intention behind them. When a person makes a joke, that joke says something about that person.

Whatever, I'm not about to go out and do a scientific study regarding individuals that I can't stand, especially when I don't have the time, so you can believe whatever you want.

Fair enough, I won't ask that you go to extraordinary length to prove your points. Provided you extend the same courtesy to me.

It doesn't change the fact that you quoted a joke I made like you're trying to portray me as a hypocrite and a dumbass.

I don't deny that I took your joke seriously to make a point. Do you think that the fact that I did so is remotely relevant? This is a thread about what, if anything, should be cut from college courses and why.

[Cekoviu]

It is if they can pass the course without cheating. I didn't know algebra either until I learned the steps to solve each problem, then practiced it. Then once I was back in the real world, I don't know algebra once again. Because I have few to no scenarios where I ever have to use Algebra. You'll lose what you don't use.

and what if they don't even wanna try?

Don't you think it would be better if advanced stuff like that was aimed at kids who could learn it and who would put the effort in?

Being interested in something prior to learning about it should not be the barrier one must surpass to be allowed to learn.

[Cannot think of a name]

Do you even hear yourself? I say that I think that people can benefit from breadth in learning, not just depth, and that people can learn new things, even if some people learn in different ways than others. And your response to this is like "Oh yeah? Well prove that you personally can teach literally any person to achieve my personal ideal of proper citizenship". When did I ever say anything about well-rounded members of society or forcing anyone to take any classes? You act like you are some kind of intellectual superior to people who deal drugs, but you aren't even comprehending the posts you're responding to. It's kinda bullshit. How about this, how about you prove that the shit you say about some people just being unable to understand "higher ideas" is true. Provide evidence to support that claim. Not just anecdotes about your time in school, solid and incontrovertible proof that the human species can be divided by intellectual ability. Until you provide that, I reject your assertions, because what you can assert to be true without evidence, I can reject as false without evidence.


I'm sure that's true. I have no doubt that I am frequently wrong and also that there are people who think that I am always wrong, even when I'm right.

You know as well that I do that "Uh, it's a joke, gawd" is an after the fact excuse to try and shut down criticism. Jokes aren't just some noise you make that doesn't mean anything. So jokes can be criticised. Jokes can be taken seriously to make a point. Jokes have intention behind them. When a person makes a joke, that joke says something about that person.

So if I make a joke about rape, I'm a rapist?

It would demonstrate your attitude towards the subject, especially that you find it funny.

It's really odd how you think you know so much about how the educational system should operate based solely on street smarts. Hopefully you realize that you're ignoring literal centuries of pedagogical development and the current state of learning theory as developed by countless cognitive scientists in favor of this simplistic garbage.

I want you to imagine someone who says things as dumb as the stuff trump says, ok? Now imagine putting a guy like that in an algebra class. do you really think that's a good idea? Seriously?

Judge a fish by it's ability to climb a tree...

So if I make a joke about rape, I'm a rapist?

Ifreann literally started an argument over a joke, and the worst thing is the argument had nothing to do with the joke I made. He just saw an opportunity to try and portray me as some immature idiot and he took it. from now on we can't make any jokes or it means we're dumb

If the joke is dumb...jokes contain a premise. If it's a joke about someone trying to get 'hung' like a horse it contains the premise that such an outcome is desirable. The punchline often is the twist that either critiques the reality or affirms it. So if in the course of a discussion someone makes a joke about that subject you can extrapolate from that.