Why the us should cut useless courses from college degrees.

[The Republic of Fore]

Or we could just not require people to take classes they don't need. Why is this such a horrible idea to so many people?

Nobody is required to take any specific class. You choose what college you go to and different colleges have different requirements.

If you think we need to have more specialized colleges that don't do gen-ed requirements, start one. It is legal to do so.

Yes, they are. Credit requirements do exist. And they are not exclusively made up of things that are relevant to your major. What happens when every class in a credit requirement is useless? And why do you have to jump to the most ridiculous extreme? I totally just happen to have a spare 100 million laying around to start my own college. /s Or, we could just get rid of gen ed requirements for the colleges that already exist. There's no reason to get so defensive over it. Every subject you think people should study can still be offered without being mandatory.

[The Republic of Fore]

Or we could just not require people to take classes they don't need. Why is this such a horrible idea to so many people?

Ok, that’s not bad, I guess, if you only want a one dimensional professional.

Who do you know that is only capable of learning things by studying them in college? We have this amazing invention called the internet. You can learn a lot on it.

[Alvecia]

Counterpoint: It's neither a waste nor objectionable.

It is though. It's your problem if you want to attend college. You pay for it.

Alternatively, we share the burden, the cost, and the benefits.

[USS Monitor]

Nobody is required to take any specific class. You choose what college you go to and different colleges have different requirements.

If you think we need to have more specialized colleges that don't do gen-ed requirements, start one. It is legal to do so.

Yes, they are. Credit requirements do exist. And they are not exclusively made up of things that are relevant to your major. What happens when every class in a credit requirement is useless? And why do you have to jump to the most ridiculous extreme? I totally just happen to have a spare 100 million laying around to start my own college. /s Or, we could just get rid of gen ed requirements for the colleges that already exist. There's no reason to get so defensive over it. Every subject you think people should study can still be offered without being mandatory.

Credit requirements are made by the individual college, not mandated nationwide by the government.

You're the one that is trying to force your will on everyone by advocating for the government to stick it's nose in and tell colleges what to teach. I am saying it should be left up to the schools.

Why should colleges be forced to pander to your preferences?

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Ok, that’s not bad, I guess, if you only want a one dimensional professional.

Who do you know that is only capable of learning things by studying them in college? We have this amazing invention called the internet. You can learn a lot on it.

Like I said, sure, only take courses related to your major and that’s it. There are also plenty of subjects that, with the guidance of a professor, are best learned but ok.

My curriculum in art history required I take biology, physics and math. Not sure what those classes had to do with my major but I took them. And guess what? They may not have been my favorite but I did learn in them. A lot.

[The Republic of Fore]

It is though. It's your problem if you want to attend college. You pay for it.

Alternatively, we share the burden, the cost, and the benefits.

No, you want it. You pay for it. Plain and simple. There's no reason for me to share the cost, and I don't need the benefits. I have my own, from the education I'm paying for.

[Alvecia]

Alternatively, we share the burden, the cost, and the benefits.

No, you want it. You pay for it. Plain and simple. There's no reason for me to share the cost, and I don't need the benefits. I have my own, from the education I'm paying for.

You think you have never or will never benefit from other peoples education?

[The Republic of Fore]

Who do you know that is only capable of learning things by studying them in college? We have this amazing invention called the internet. You can learn a lot on it.

Like I said, sure, only take courses related to your major and that’s it. There are also plenty of subjects that, with the guidance of a professor, are best learned but ok.

My curriculum in art history required I take biology, physics and math. Not sure what those classes had to do with my major but I took them. And guess what? They may not have been my favorite but I did learn in them. A lot.

I'm happy for you that you learned in those courses. And as I've said 50 times you should have the option. But you shouldn't be required. And maybe I've just been unlucky, but I've never taken a course where I felt I needed the professor. Even most of my med school professors could be replaced with a monkey with little impact on the class.

[The Republic of Fore]

No, you want it. You pay for it. Plain and simple. There's no reason for me to share the cost, and I don't need the benefits. I have my own, from the education I'm paying for.

You think you have never or will never benefit from other peoples education?

I can get the same benefit if they pay for it themselves. And I don't have to waste more of my money on taxes. Win-win.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Like I said, sure, only take courses related to your major and that’s it. There are also plenty of subjects that, with the guidance of a professor, are best learned but ok.

My curriculum in art history required I take biology, physics and math. Not sure what those classes had to do with my major but I took them. And guess what? They may not have been my favorite but I did learn in them. A lot.

I'm happy for you that you learned in those courses. And as I've said 50 times you should have the option. But you shouldn't be required. And maybe I've just been unlucky, but I've never taken a course where I felt I needed the professor. Even most of my med school professors could be replaced with a monkey with little impact on the class.

So you claim. Forgive me however if I don’t take your horn tooting seriously.

That being said, ok. Take only the classes for your major, but don’t complain later if your professional endeavors feel and are one dimensioned. University is a time for exploration and expansion, and your point of view about curricula is, frankly, myopic, but if that’s what you want, do it.

[Alvecia]

You think you have never or will never benefit from other peoples education?

I can get the same benefit if they pay for it themselves. And I don't have to waste more of my money on taxes. Win-win.

Lesser benefits. Leeched ones at that.

How ironic that those who most often preach of self-sufficiency are the same who would happily benefit off the work of others.

[The Republic of Fore]

Yes, they are. Credit requirements do exist. And they are not exclusively made up of things that are relevant to your major. What happens when every class in a credit requirement is useless? And why do you have to jump to the most ridiculous extreme? I totally just happen to have a spare 100 million laying around to start my own college. /s Or, we could just get rid of gen ed requirements for the colleges that already exist. There's no reason to get so defensive over it. Every subject you think people should study can still be offered without being mandatory.

Credit requirements are made by the individual college, not mandated nationwide by the government.

You're the one that is trying to force your will on everyone by advocating for the government to stick it's nose in and tell colleges what to teach. I am saying it should be left up to the schools.

Why should colleges be forced to pander to your preferences?

Sure, they are. Doesn't change that a lot of them are useless. And I'm not telling them what they can teach. I'm telling them what they can't force their students to take. Why should students be forced to pander to the preferences of people who think you need to be well rounded? It won't hurt schools if a few kids graduate in 3 years instead of four. Do people really not understand that classes can exist without it being required that you take them?

[The Republic of Fore]

I can get the same benefit if they pay for it themselves. And I don't have to waste more of my money on taxes. Win-win.

Lesser benefits. Leeched ones at that.

How ironic that those who most often preach of self-sufficiency are the same who would happily benefit off the work of others.

Oh well, more than enough people leech off of me through the taxes I pay going to welfare. Even more so when I graduate. And I don't want to benefit off the work of others. I have never once asked someone to use their education to benefit me. People choose to become teachers and professors. What other people choose to do isn't my fault, or problem.

[Saiwania]

University is a time for exploration and expansion, and your point of view about curricula is, frankly, myopic, but if that’s what you want, do it.

The main issue these days is that more people don't have the luxury of taking more courses than they need to, because college is getting to be too expensive. There comes a point where people will get the perception that its no longer worth it.

[Salandriagado]

My point is that they're already doing it on their dime.

Not really. Student loans, grants, tuition discounts, It's pretty rare that any student 100% self funds. And besides, I was talking to someone who wanted to make college free.

Unless you're personally providing those grants, they aren't doing it on your dime.

[Salandriagado]

Weird example, given that it's trivially easy to make it so that the overwhelming majority of people never need to fill in a tax return in their lives.



Doing so has no impact on admissions standards. To raise admissions standards you'd need proper qualifying exams. And probably to allow people to specialise earlier.



Yeah, no. Government policy is not a zero-sum game.



This is clearly not a failure of the system, given how many people do get prepared for, and obtain, jobs by such means.



I read this out in an office full of AI researchers, and they all started laughing, so it's safe to say that you're wrong. There is zero possibility of anything like this happening in any period of time that can reasonably be called "soon".



Your idea of what mathematics is bears no relationship whatsoever to reality.



It's from the Latin Liberalis Ars, with a literal meaning of roughly "free pursuits", which are the descendents of the seven classical arts worthy of a free person - grammar, logic, rhetoric, arithmetic, geometry, music, and astronomy. The weird usage of the words "liberal" and "arts" in the US these days does not apply retroactively. Specifically, the liberal arts are those subjects that have been considered essential to have a basic grounding in for literal millennia.



The solution, then, is obvious, and it's not changing the courses required.



Fuck that shit. Employers don't get to offload their training costs onto the university system. They can do their own damned training. We'll carry on with educating people.



If you can't make your courses sound impressive on your CV, you clearly should have taken more of these supposedly useless courses to learn how to do so.



No, they're overwhelmingly the people who stand to make profits from it.



It's more like "if you don't know what you're talking about, your criticism isn't worth shit". Which yes, is a pretty reasonable position to take.



You're specifically criticising the course, not the field. And yes, it's essentially impossible to gain knowledge of the details of a particular course without at least sitting in the fucking course.



If all of the experts in a field disagree with you, it isn't propaganda, it's you being wrong.



If this were a significant effect, you'd expect significant differences between the US and countries with free education. Is there any evidence of such?



Stop lying.

If I am wrong, then why are these field already largely dependent on computers to aid humans in their calculations?

Because aiding people with grunt work is not the same as actually replacing those people.

[Salandriagado]

Or we could just not require people to take classes they don't need. Why is this such a horrible idea to so many people?

Nobody is required to take any specific class. You choose what college you go to and different colleges have different requirements.

If you think we need to have more specialized colleges that don't do gen-ed requirements, start one. It is legal to do so.

Or hell, just go to a university in a country where those are already common. There are no shortage of them.

[Salandriagado]

University is a time for exploration and expansion, and your point of view about curricula is, frankly, myopic, but if that’s what you want, do it.

The main issue these days is that more people don't have the luxury of taking more courses than they need to, because college is getting to be too expensive. There comes a point where people will get the perception that its no longer worth it.

So fix that issue, rather than making up non-issues to complain about.

[The Republic of Fore]

I'm happy for you that you learned in those courses. And as I've said 50 times you should have the option. But you shouldn't be required. And maybe I've just been unlucky, but I've never taken a course where I felt I needed the professor. Even most of my med school professors could be replaced with a monkey with little impact on the class.

So you claim. Forgive me however if I don’t take your horn tooting seriously.

That being said, ok. Take only the classes for your major, but don’t complain later if your professional endeavors feel and are one dimensioned. University is a time for exploration and expansion, and your point of view about curricula is, frankly, myopic, but if that’s what you want, do it.

I didn't have that option. Credit requirements exist, and they aren't all just related to your major. I can explore and expand on my own time.

[Saiwania]

So fix that issue, rather than making up non-issues to complain about.

There is no way to fix it, other than lowering the requirements and lessening the length of time to completion. Or to have alternatives to college that're actually competitive and thus can put some downward pressure on college prices because fewer people are going.

[The Republic of Fore]

Nobody is required to take any specific class. You choose what college you go to and different colleges have different requirements.

If you think we need to have more specialized colleges that don't do gen-ed requirements, start one. It is legal to do so.

Or hell, just go to a university in a country where those are already common. There are no shortage of them.

Or just change the rules for the universities in the country I'm already in. We can do that to.

[United Muscovite Nations]

If I am wrong, then why are these field already largely dependent on computers to aid humans in their calculations?

Because aiding people with grunt work is not the same as actually replacing those people.

It's certainly replacing a large number of people who used to do that grunt work for the people who do the conceptual work.

[The Republic of Fore]

Not really. Student loans, grants, tuition discounts, It's pretty rare that any student 100% self funds. And besides, I was talking to someone who wanted to make college free.

Unless you're personally providing those grants, they aren't doing it on your dime.

My taxes are. Where do you think the money for them comes from? La la land?

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

So you claim. Forgive me however if I don’t take your horn tooting seriously.

That being said, ok. Take only the classes for your major, but don’t complain later if your professional endeavors feel and are one dimensioned. University is a time for exploration and expansion, and your point of view about curricula is, frankly, myopic, but if that’s what you want, do it.

I didn't have that option. Credit requirements exist, and they aren't all just related to your major. I can explore and expand on my own time.

If your uni requires it, suck it up and do it. It didn’t add to my academic load or time of degree completion to take biology, physics and math.

[The Republic of Fore]

I didn't have that option. Credit requirements exist, and they aren't all just related to your major. I can explore and expand on my own time.

If your uni requires it, suck it up and do it. It didn’t add to my academic load or time of degree completion to take biology, physics and math.

I already did it. And good for you. I needed 120 credits to graduate. 30 of those had nothing to do with my major. I could have saved an entire year. There's no reason to suck it up. It doesn't benefit me. People who want others to expand and explore can suck it up.