2020 US General Election Thread IV: The Battle Begins

[Telconi]

That's pretty much what they did in 2012, and they lost.

Four years is a lifetime in politics. Obama also wasn't a socialist

It's Fox News, everyone in the Democratic party is a socialist.

[Galloism]

That’s mixed. Unlike Biden’s support of NAFTA.

You don’t realize how much union workers absolutely hate NAFTA now. When Trump starts hammering on NAFTA, and Biden defends it, the union vote will collapse.

It's basically the devil. Almost as bad as gay people and immigrants.

This but unironically.

Seriously. Trump will make shirts with Biden’s face and “NAFTA 2.0” and pass them out for free, and you can kiss Pennsylvania and Michigan goodbye.

[Pasong Tirad]

So sticking with the status quo is better? Biden is basically a male version of Hillary. Time and again the Dems have gone with the Clintons and Bidens in their party in the name of electability. How has that gone for you?

I rather not hand Trump a second term and wipe out all the gains we made in 2018.

You do that by running the most well liked senator in America.

[Major-Tom]

I don't see how he would be a disaster. As Galloism acutely pointed out, Republicans could take a Manchin-type Democrat in a General and lambast that hypothetical candidate as a "radical socialist."

The dedicated Republican base, the people who genuinely believe every attack ad the brain trust at Fox pumps out like sludge, they're not going to vote for a Democrat no matter what. That's 90% of registered GOP members. They're fully entitled to their own opinions, but they're not going to change them for any Democrat.

The Republicans have lost slivers of their support, in the suburbs, in some urban areas. But they haven't lost their base. In many ways, us Democrats have lost significant portions of our base. The reason behind that is the Dems we ran. I mean, you look at counties in crucial swing states like Michigan, Ohio, Wisconsin, PA, where entire families voted Democratic for generations. It was tradition. And in 2016, they turned. It wasn't because the Dems swung left, it was because they abandoned the ideas of fair trade, worker's protection, and protecting Union workers.

And once a Biden's or Klobuchar's record of being identical to HRC on every issue, but even less pro-worker comes into the spotlight in a General Election, those same people from those same counties won't hesitate to write a blank check for a second Trump term.

yeah if only we ran Bernie types in every race we'd win. In that case Governor Andrew Gillam says hi

I think that's a vastly different scenario. He's an admirable guy who ran a good race, but ultimately, he ran as a fairly milquetoast progressive in a state where vast swathes of people are barred from voting.

Additionally, I have no illusions about Florida. They're the one sunbelt state that is trending redder and redder by the second. For every retiree in a Florida suburb who "leaves," two more take their places.

[San Lumen]

It's basically the devil. Almost as bad as gay people and immigrants.

This but unironically.

Seriously. Trump will make shirts with Biden’s face and “NAFTA 2.0” and pass them out for free, and you can kiss Pennsylvania and Michigan goodbye.

and Sanders a self described Socialist who wants to raise taxes will win them?

[Nazeroth]

Four years is a lifetime in politics. Obama also wasn't a socialist

It's Fox News, everyone in the Democratic party is a socialist.

maybe the democratic opposition should stop going " Look ANTIFA just means anti-fascist and we all want that right?"

[Telconi]

our model does suck, i agree, but i think it's a monopoly of medical companies issue, not a capitalism issue itself.

I think there's some nuance, and I'm sure that when push comes to shove, all the blame can't be directly attributed to "just capitalism." America follows a relatively Laissez-Faire model in terms of our capitalistic policies, but capitalism is a spectrum, there are models that are more humanistic and more moderate in terms of economic policy, provisions of a welfare state, what have you.

The Insurance companies and pharmaceutical hegemonies, however, are a direct result of our specific model of capitalism. I mean, you can still be a full-fledged capitalist and still say "well, the government has a right to intervene in the healthcare sector." Plenty of capitalist countries do it, it's not inherently a socialist ideal.

The problem is that the overwhelming narrative is that government intervention is "Socialist"

[Pasong Tirad]

This but unironically.

Seriously. Trump will make shirts with Biden’s face and “NAFTA 2.0” and pass them out for free, and you can kiss Pennsylvania and Michigan goodbye.

and Sanders a self described Socialist who wants to raise taxes will win them?

Yes.

[Kargintina the Third]

and Sanders a self described Socialist who wants to raise taxes will win them?

Yes.

Doubt (X)

[Major-Tom]

I think there's some nuance, and I'm sure that when push comes to shove, all the blame can't be directly attributed to "just capitalism." America follows a relatively Laissez-Faire model in terms of our capitalistic policies, but capitalism is a spectrum, there are models that are more humanistic and more moderate in terms of economic policy, provisions of a welfare state, what have you.

The Insurance companies and pharmaceutical hegemonies, however, are a direct result of our specific model of capitalism. I mean, you can still be a full-fledged capitalist and still say "well, the government has a right to intervene in the healthcare sector." Plenty of capitalist countries do it, it's not inherently a socialist ideal.

The problem is that the overwhelming narrative is that government intervention is "Socialist"

You're not wrong. How we change that narrative, that's a different discussion, even I couldn't wrap my head around that one.

[San Lumen]

and Sanders a self described Socialist who wants to raise taxes will win them?

Yes.

I really hope your right because many people dont want to pay more taxes. And Medicare for all is not affordable. It would bankrupt the country.

Because if your wrong all we worked for in 2018 will be wiped out

[Nazeroth]

Yes.

Doubt (X)

"cubans in florida"

are we a joke to you?

[Telconi]

The problem is that the overwhelming narrative is that government intervention is "Socialist"

You're not wrong. How we change that narrative, that's a different discussion, even I couldn't wrap my head around that one.

-Shrug- Iunno, and I don't frankly care to.

[Cisairse]

That's pretty much what they did in 2012, and they lost.

Obama wasn't a self-admitted socialist in 2012 was he?

A decent amount of people believed that he was. Hell, a non-zero amount of people legitimately believed he was a Muslim, and a prominent member of the Republican party believed he wasn't a natural-born citizen :^)

[Galloism]

This but unironically.

Seriously. Trump will make shirts with Biden’s face and “NAFTA 2.0” and pass them out for free, and you can kiss Pennsylvania and Michigan goodbye.

and Sanders a self described Socialist who wants to raise taxes will win them?

He has a much better shot than Biden, because he’s been talking about fair trade forever.

Seriously. VP sanders was one of Trump’s nightmare election scenarios - unironically.

https://www.commondreams.org/news/2020/ ... on-picking

[Telconi]

Yes.

I really hope your right because many people dont want to pay more taxes. And Medicare for all is not affordable. It would bankrupt the country.

Because if your wrong all we worked for in 2018 will be wiped out

Interesting thing about bankruptcy, is it requires both an increase in spending, and static income. Increased tax burdens make "Medicare for all" perfectly doable.

[Idzequitch]

So sticking with the status quo is better? Biden is basically a male version of Hillary. Time and again the Dems have gone with the Clintons and Bidens in their party in the name of electability. How has that gone for you?

I rather not hand Trump a second term and wipe out all the gains we made in 2018.

Exactly why your party needs to pass on Biden.

[San Lumen]

and Sanders a self described Socialist who wants to raise taxes will win them?

He has a much better shot than Biden, because he’s been talking about fair trade forever.

Seriously. VP sanders was one of Trump’s nightmare election scenarios - unironically.

https://www.commondreams.org/news/2020/ ... on-picking

yeah because I believe anything that comes out his mouth

[Pasong Tirad]

Yes.

I really hope your right because many people dont want to pay more taxes. And Medicare for all is not affordable. It would bankrupt the country.

People are ok with their taxes going up and in exchange theu never have to pay a premium or whatever the hell those are ever again. Medicare for all is affordable. If a 2-decade long war in the Middle East didn't bankrupt America, fucking healthcare reform won'r do it.

[San Lumen]

I rather not hand Trump a second term and wipe out all the gains we made in 2018.

Exactly why your party needs to pass on Biden.

its why we shouldn't.

[Galloism]

He has a much better shot than Biden, because he’s been talking about fair trade forever.

Seriously. VP sanders was one of Trump’s nightmare election scenarios - unironically.

https://www.commondreams.org/news/2020/ ... on-picking

yeah because I believe anything that comes out his mouth

/shrug

[San Lumen]

I really hope your right because many people dont want to pay more taxes. And Medicare for all is not affordable. It would bankrupt the country.

People are ok with their taxes going up and in exchange theu never have to pay a premium or whatever the hell those are ever again. Medicare for all is affordable. If a 2-decade long war in the Middle East didn't bankrupt America, fucking healthcare reform won'r do it.

Math says otherwise

[Nazeroth]

Obama wasn't a self-admitted socialist in 2012 was he?

A decent amount of people believed that he was. Hell, a non-zero amount of people legitimately believed he was a Muslim, and a prominent member of the Republican party believed he wasn't a natural-born citizen :^)

not sensible people

this guy is a literal, self-admitted socialist

imagine if Trump said " Yes I am actually a Fascist"

[Kargintina the Third]

I really hope your right because many people dont want to pay more taxes. And Medicare for all is not affordable. It would bankrupt the country.

People are ok with their taxes going up and in exchange theu never have to pay a premium or whatever the hell those are ever again. Medicare for all is affordable. If a 2-decade long war in the Middle East didn't bankrupt America, fucking healthcare reform won'r do it.

“People are okay with their taxes going up”

Uh, speak for yourself bud

[San Lumen]

A decent amount of people believed that he was. Hell, a non-zero amount of people legitimately believed he was a Muslim, and a prominent member of the Republican party believed he wasn't a natural-born citizen :^)

not sensible people

this guy is a literal, self-admitted socialist

imagine if Trump said " Yes I am actually a Fascist"

The base would still vote for him