2020 US General Election Thread IV: The Battle Begins

[Galloism]

Tbh, they were going to do that with whoever the nominee was anyway.

Truthful attacks are often the best.

Dunno, they haven’t worked on Trump.

[Major-Tom]

All Republicans will do is hammer how Bernie wants to raise your taxes and take away your healthcare and bankrupt the country. Dont think that wont be an effective attack. I want to be wrong believe me.

This ^

though i dont think he wants to take away healthcare, just force us into shitty government healthcare, but that's besides the point.

There was once a time where I thought maybe our current model could work if we just tweaked it enough, y'know? Then the reality of our broken healthcare system hit, because it hit close to home.

Of 33 developed countries, we're the one that doesn't guarantee universal healthcare. I'm not even talking single-payer, I'm just talking affordable and universal as a broad concept. Even if we can't fully achieve the noble and arguably great goal of single-payer, we should at least make some effort to improve upon our system in a way that doesn't involve more privatization that just empirically doesn't work.

Even the Swiss or Singaporean models that a lot of right-wingers like to invoke in healthcare arguments are still universal, but also involve a great deal of hands-on government intervention. Government healthcare isn't inherently shitty, now and again we see systems that need tons of work in that department. But our model? Arguably, it is inherently shitty.

[Nazeroth]

This ^

though i dont think he wants to take away healthcare, just force us into shitty government healthcare, but that's besides the point.

There was once a time where I thought maybe our current model could work if we just tweaked it enough, y'know? Then the reality of our broken healthcare system hit, because it hit close to home.

Of 33 developed countries, we're the one that doesn't guarantee universal healthcare. I'm not even talking single-payer, I'm just talking affordable and universal as a broad concept. Even if we can't fully achieve the noble and arguably great goal of single-payer, we should at least make some effort to improve upon our system in a way that doesn't involve more privatization that just empirically doesn't work.

Even the Swiss or Singaporean models that a lot of right-wingers like to invoke in healthcare arguments are still universal, but also involve a great deal of hands-on government intervention. Government healthcare isn't inherently shitty, now and again we see systems that need tons of work in that department. But our model? Arguably, it is inherently shitty.

our model does suck, i agree, but i think it's a monopoly of medical companies issue, not a capitalism issue itself.

[Galloism]

Yeah, by tearing down the best chance they have and whining about Bernie.

are you saying Bernie is the best chance they have because I think that's Biden.

Trump will take Joe “privatize social security, NAFTA = good” Biden out behind the woodshed and beat him like a drum. With Biden, you can just forget the rust belt.

[San Lumen]

are you saying Bernie is the best chance they have because I think that's Biden.

Trump will take Joe “privatize social security, NAFTA = good” Biden out behind the woodshed and beat him like a drum. With Biden, you can just forget the rust belt.

what makes you say that?

[Galloism]

Trump will take Joe “privatize social security, NAFTA = good” Biden out behind the woodshed and beat him like a drum. With Biden, you can just forget the rust belt.

what makes you say that?

The stuff in the quotes.

[Nazeroth]

honestly, as a trump supporter, the best candidate the Democrats could put against Trump is Tulsi Gabbard

she is honest, strong, physical attractive(yes that helps like it or not) and consistent, as well as prior service

while I think she still has crazy in her like the other candidates, Tulsi would be the one where I go " Ah shit, this could be bad for Trump"

the rest? nah, nutcases.

but Clinton did a good job of making her look like a russian spy so oh well

[San Lumen]

what makes you say that?

The stuff in the quotes.

and Sanders saying he will raise taxes and ban private health insurance wont be a huge anchor for him?

[Czechostan]

oh Trump will eat him alive on the debate stage with that stuff

Biden is so think skinned he would get slaughtered on the debate stage. Trump just has to call him sleepy joe once during a silent period and Biden will melt into the stage.

The one positive of Biden getting the nomination is the debates between him and Trump would be hilarious.

[Idzequitch]

good, i hope he wins, even as a trump supporter.

Yeah because he would be a disaster but Democrats seem keen on shooting themselves in the foot and losing the house.,

So sticking with the status quo is better? Biden is basically a male version of Hillary. Time and again the Dems have gone with the Clintons and Bidens in their party in the name of electability. How has that gone for you?

[Major-Tom]

Tbh, they were going to do that with whoever the nominee was anyway.

Yeah but Bernie would be a disaster but Democrats seem to want to blow the election

I don't see how he would be a disaster. As Galloism acutely pointed out, Republicans could take a Manchin-type Democrat in a General and lambast that hypothetical candidate as a "radical socialist."

The dedicated Republican base, the people who genuinely believe every attack ad the brain trust at Fox pumps out like sludge, they're not going to vote for a Democrat no matter what. That's 90% of registered GOP members. They're fully entitled to their own opinions, but they're not going to change them for any Democrat.

The Republicans have lost slivers of their support, in the suburbs, in some urban areas. But they haven't lost their base. In many ways, us Democrats have lost significant portions of our base. The reason behind that is the Dems we ran. I mean, you look at counties in crucial swing states like Michigan, Ohio, Wisconsin, PA, where entire families voted Democratic for generations. It was tradition. And in 2016, they turned. It wasn't because the Dems swung left, it was because they abandoned the ideas of fair trade, worker's protection, and protecting Union workers.

And once a Biden's or Klobuchar's record of being identical to HRC on every issue, but even less pro-worker comes into the spotlight in a General Election, those same people from those same counties won't hesitate to write a blank check for a second Trump term.

[Pasong Tirad]

I really don't see it getting any better for Trump. I mean even Republican strategists are afraid of a post-acquittal "trickle down" of extremely damaging information throughout the campaign period. The economy is going to go into recession most likely before the election. There are no more policy goals that Trump can reasonably succeed in implementing by November.

All Republicans will do is hammer how Bernie wants to raise your taxes and take away your healthcare and bankrupt the country. Dont think that wont be an effective attack. I want to be wrong believe me.

X is going to take away your Y is literally the line of attack for any Dem. Sanders has is poll after poll after poll showing he can beat Trump. Saying it might not "stay that way" is speculation. He could also get hit by a bus tomorrow.

[San Lumen]

Yeah because he would be a disaster but Democrats seem keen on shooting themselves in the foot and losing the house.,

So sticking with the status quo is better? Biden is basically a male version of Hillary. Time and again the Dems have gone with the Clintons and Bidens in their party in the name of electability. How has that gone for you?

I rather not hand Trump a second term and wipe out all the gains we made in 2018.

[Telconi]

Truthful attacks are often the best.

Dunno, they haven’t worked on Trump.

Allow me to restate, salient truthful attacks. Nobody seems to give a shit if Trump is lining his own pockets.

[Galloism]

The stuff in the quotes.

and Sanders saying he will raise taxes and ban private health insurance wont be a huge anchor for him?

That’s mixed. Unlike Biden’s support of NAFTA.

You don’t realize how much union workers absolutely hate NAFTA now. When Trump starts hammering on NAFTA, and Biden defends it, the union vote will collapse.

[Nazeroth]

Biden is so think skinned he would get slaughtered on the debate stage. Trump just has to call him sleepy joe once during a silent period and Biden will melt into the stage.

The one positive of Biden getting the nomination is the debates between him and Trump would be hilarious.

hes good at calling people fat, so he can attack with that lol.

[Telconi]

So sticking with the status quo is better? Biden is basically a male version of Hillary. Time and again the Dems have gone with the Clintons and Bidens in their party in the name of electability. How has that gone for you?

I rather not hand Trump a second term and wipe out all the gains we made in 2018.

But think about how Great America would be Made Again with four more years of Donnie T.

[Major-Tom]

Biden is so think skinned he would get slaughtered on the debate stage. Trump just has to call him sleepy joe once during a silent period and Biden will melt into the stage.

The one positive of Biden getting the nomination is the debates between him and Trump would be hilarious.

If they hosted a debate in Florida for those two, they could call it "Sundowning in the Sunshine State."

[San Lumen]

Yeah but Bernie would be a disaster but Democrats seem to want to blow the election

I don't see how he would be a disaster. As Galloism acutely pointed out, Republicans could take a Manchin-type Democrat in a General and lambast that hypothetical candidate as a "radical socialist."

The dedicated Republican base, the people who genuinely believe every attack ad the brain trust at Fox pumps out like sludge, they're not going to vote for a Democrat no matter what. That's 90% of registered GOP members. They're fully entitled to their own opinions, but they're not going to change them for any Democrat.

The Republicans have lost slivers of their support, in the suburbs, in some urban areas. But they haven't lost their base. In many ways, us Democrats have lost significant portions of our base. The reason behind that is the Dems we ran. I mean, you look at counties in crucial swing states like Michigan, Ohio, Wisconsin, PA, where entire families voted Democratic for generations. It was tradition. And in 2016, they turned. It wasn't because the Dems swung left, it was because they abandoned the ideas of fair trade, worker's protection, and protecting Union workers.

And once a Biden's or Klobuchar's record of being identical to HRC on every issue, but even less pro-worker comes into the spotlight in a General Election, those same people from those same counties won't hesitate to write a blank check for a second Trump term.

yeah if only we ran Bernie types in every race we'd win. In that case Governor Andrew Gillam says hi

[Cisairse]

I really don't see it getting any better for Trump. I mean even Republican strategists are afraid of a post-acquittal "trickle down" of extremely damaging information throughout the campaign period. The economy is going to go into recession most likely before the election. There are no more policy goals that Trump can reasonably succeed in implementing by November.

All Republicans will do is hammer how Bernie wants to raise your taxes and take away your healthcare and bankrupt the country. Dont think that wont be an effective attack. I want to be wrong believe me.

That's pretty much what they did in 2012, and they lost.

[Telconi]

and Sanders saying he will raise taxes and ban private health insurance wont be a huge anchor for him?

That’s mixed. Unlike Biden’s support of NAFTA.

You don’t realize how much union workers absolutely hate NAFTA now. When Trump starts hammering on NAFTA, and Biden defends it, the union vote will collapse.

It's basically the devil. Almost as bad as gay people and immigrants.

[Nazeroth]

All Republicans will do is hammer how Bernie wants to raise your taxes and take away your healthcare and bankrupt the country. Dont think that wont be an effective attack. I want to be wrong believe me.

That's pretty much what they did in 2012, and they lost.

Obama wasn't a self-admitted socialist in 2012 was he?

[San Lumen]

All Republicans will do is hammer how Bernie wants to raise your taxes and take away your healthcare and bankrupt the country. Dont think that wont be an effective attack. I want to be wrong believe me.

That's pretty much what they did in 2012, and they lost.

Four years is a lifetime in politics. Obama also wasn't a socialist

[Kargintina the Third]

All Republicans will do is hammer how Bernie wants to raise your taxes and take away your healthcare and bankrupt the country. Dont think that wont be an effective attack. I want to be wrong believe me.

That's pretty much what they did in 2012, and they lost.

Obama is nothing like Bernie...

[Major-Tom]

There was once a time where I thought maybe our current model could work if we just tweaked it enough, y'know? Then the reality of our broken healthcare system hit, because it hit close to home.

Of 33 developed countries, we're the one that doesn't guarantee universal healthcare. I'm not even talking single-payer, I'm just talking affordable and universal as a broad concept. Even if we can't fully achieve the noble and arguably great goal of single-payer, we should at least make some effort to improve upon our system in a way that doesn't involve more privatization that just empirically doesn't work.

Even the Swiss or Singaporean models that a lot of right-wingers like to invoke in healthcare arguments are still universal, but also involve a great deal of hands-on government intervention. Government healthcare isn't inherently shitty, now and again we see systems that need tons of work in that department. But our model? Arguably, it is inherently shitty.

our model does suck, i agree, but i think it's a monopoly of medical companies issue, not a capitalism issue itself.

I think there's some nuance, and I'm sure that when push comes to shove, all the blame can't be directly attributed to "just capitalism." America follows a relatively Laissez-Faire model in terms of our capitalistic policies, but capitalism is a spectrum, there are models that are more humanistic and more moderate in terms of economic policy, provisions of a welfare state, what have you.

The Insurance companies and pharmaceutical hegemonies, however, are a direct result of our specific model of capitalism. I mean, you can still be a full-fledged capitalist and still say "well, the government has a right to intervene in the healthcare sector." Plenty of capitalist countries do it, it's not inherently a socialist ideal.