2020 US General Election Thread IV: The Battle Begins

[San Lumen]

They’re losing.

Seems like the kind of thing that should sink all their candidacies, given how the last presidential election went.

Yeah just anoint the person a majority didn’t vote for. I hope he doesn’t get the nod at a brokered convention. His delegates can scream bloody murder and look like whiny children who got their toy taken away. But it seems many want to to throw away all our gains in 2018 and lose in a landslide. Go ahead nominate him but I don’t want to hear the tears when he loses. Mark my words

[Thermodolia]

This picture was just too good for me to pass up. I'm thinking I should keep it at least until Mike Bloomberg drops out or loses against Trump. Bonus points for those who understand the reference.

But that is the sense I get from Bloomberg because of last night. His power or potential is all one big illusion but really he's very weak and if exposed or opposed he can become undone so easily, no matter how much money he spends on this race.

Sai I think we all get the reference. We aren’t idiots after all

[Alien Space Bats]

So what was up with every Democrat except Sanders saying they don't believe in democracy? That was weird.

They’re losing.

Seems like the kind of thing that should sink all their candidacies, given how the last presidential election went.

It was Sanders' position four years ago, when Hillary won more delegates than he did, but not enough to clinch without superdelegate support. He called upon the superdelegates to back him in spite of having won fewer delegates and garnered further votes than he did. So does that disqualify him from being the nominee as well?

Of course not.

It's a stupid position to take, that whoever wins a plurality of the delegates ought to be awarded the nomination automatically. The better position is for everyone to evaluate the Party's situation and collectively make the best decision for the Party overall. Depending on the circumstances, that might mean pitching in behind whoever has won a plurality of delegates and taking them over the top, or it could mean seeking a compromise candidate.

Let me offer you an example. Let's say that Bloomberg's billions overcome his poor debate performance and he actually comes away from Super Tuesday with roughly the same number of delegates as does Bernie Sanders (this could happen if Sanders doesn't win as big in California as he expects to, while Bloomberg does really, really well across the South and edges Sanders out in Texas. Then the race goes through the various remaining States (Michigan, Illinois, Pennsylvania, Florida, New York, Arizona, etc.) and the two candidates split the remaining delegates more or less evenly. So:

• If Sanders ends up with 41% of all the delegates and Bloomberg ends up with 40% (and everybody else splits the remaining 19% between them, should Sanders automatically be the nominee?
  
  
  • Would your answer be the same if polling showed that as many as a third of all Bloomberg supporters would stay home or vote for Trump if Sanders was the nominee, thereby virtually guaranteeing defeat in November?
• If Bloomberg ends up with 41% of all the delegates and Sanders ends up with 40% (and everybody else splits the remaining 19% between them, should Bloomberg automatically be the nominee?
  
  
  • Would your answer be the same if polling showed that as many as a third of all Sanders supporters would stay home or vote for Trump if Bloomberg was the nominee, thereby virtually guaranteeing defeat in November?
• Or would the best course of action for the Party be to try to find a compromise ticket that could maybe — just maybe — keep the Party united and win the election four months down the road? And by "compromise ticket", I don't mean putting both men on the ticket, in one order or another; I mean finding someone else altogether than both sides could enthusiastically support (like Sherrod Brown, for example) and drafting that person as the nominee?

None of this is likely to happen, mind you: The most likely outcome is that Bernie will cruise to the nomination, or arrive just short of 50% with no one else even close — and then get pushed on through for the sake of Party unity. But it's important to understand that the process isn't designed to be a simple FPTP election; it's designed to try and come up with the best nominee to lead the Party to victory up and down the ballot.

[Thermodolia]

Seems like the kind of thing that should sink all their candidacies, given how the last presidential election went.

Yeah just anoint the person a majority didn’t vote for. I hope he doesn’t get the nod at a brokered convention. His delegates can scream bloody murder and look like whiny children who got their toy taken away.

I didn’t know that you were a Trump supporter

But it seems many want to to throw away all our gains in 2018 and lose in a landslide. Go ahead nominate him but I don’t want to hear the tears when he loses. Mark my words

Says the neoliberal who thinks the poors and working class is icky

[San Lumen]

Yeah just anoint the person a majority didn’t vote for. I hope he doesn’t get the nod at a brokered convention. His delegates can scream bloody murder and look like whiny children who got their toy taken away.

I didn’t know that you were a Trump supporter

But it seems many want to to throw away all our gains in 2018 and lose in a landslide. Go ahead nominate him but I don’t want to hear the tears when he loses. Mark my words

Says the neoliberal who thinks the poors and working class is icky

I’ll just say I told you so when he loses and wish everyone good luck in the new America where Republicans win consistently with less votes. I’d love to see Trump decline the nominationat the convention and throw it into chaos but I’ll never get that wish

[True Refuge]

Seems like the kind of thing that should sink all their candidacies, given how the last presidential election went.

Yeah just anoint the person a majority didn’t vote for. I hope he doesn’t get the nod at a brokered convention. His delegates can scream bloody murder and look like whiny children who got their toy taken away. But it seems many want to to throw away all our gains in 2018 and lose in a landslide. Go ahead nominate him but I don’t want to hear the tears when he loses. Mark my words

Have you read a candidate's policy yet?

[San Lumen]

Yeah just anoint the person a majority didn’t vote for. I hope he doesn’t get the nod at a brokered convention. His delegates can scream bloody murder and look like whiny children who got their toy taken away. But it seems many want to to throw away all our gains in 2018 and lose in a landslide. Go ahead nominate him but I don’t want to hear the tears when he loses. Mark my words

Have you read a candidate's policy yet?

A socialist isn’t winning a national election.

[True Refuge]

Have you read a candidate's policy yet?

A socialist isn’t winning a national election.

Sure, but to somehow say that Bernie is a hypocrite because compared to the rest of the US he's rich? Nah. His targets have always been clear, and it's never been septuagenarians who were able to afford a log cabin - which, according to him, he was only able to afford because he sold a piece of land his ancestors owned in Maine.

He’s not even a Democrat and never gives specifics on how he will pay for things. Plus how do you expect the centrist democrats we owe our house majority to get re-elected with him at the helm? Run someone from the left and you lose the seat. If trump is re-elected as he will likely will be with Sanders as the nominee we will be out of power in Washington for at least 20 years

Why should we listen to someone who doesn't even bother to read the policy of candidates involved before saying who wins and who loses? You clearly haven't put much effort into looking into Sanders' policy or it's potential.

[Alien Space Bats]

The problem isn't the vote itself. The vote is completely understandable and perfectly fine. Well, within the usual levels of what politicians do at least. The issue is that this is the same sort of behavior that gets other non-Bernie candidates labeled as corrupt. It also undercuts his message of being opposed to the military-industrial complex.

Precisely. Hillary took a shitton of money from the big banks in 2016, and then voted against their interests repeatedly, Nonetheless, Sanders insisted that she was a tool of those same big banks, using the money they gave her as "proof" of undue influence.

Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. It's going to be hard for Bernie to claim that he and he alone in all of Washington can take a corporation's money and stay pure, while everybody else is corrupt as the day is long — and given his past position on this sort of thing, that's going to be the position he will have to take.

"Trust me and me alone. Everybody else is just a crooked politician!"

Do you really think that's going to fly?

[San Lumen]

A socialist isn’t winning a national election.

He’s not even a Democrat and never gives specifics on how he will pay for things. Plus how do you expect the centrist democrats we owe our house majority to get re-elected with him at the helm? Run someone from the left and you lose the seat. If trump is re-elected as he will likely will be with Sanders as the nominee we will be out of power in Washington for at least 20 years

Why should we listen to someone who doesn't even bother to read the policy of candidates involved before saying who wins and who loses? You clearly haven't put much effort into looking into Sanders' policy or it's potential.

If it were up to me he wouldn’t even be allowed to run and the nomination would be taken from him at the convention and his delegates can throw a temper tantrum

[True Refuge]

Why should we listen to someone who doesn't even bother to read the policy of candidates involved before saying who wins and who loses? You clearly haven't put much effort into looking into Sanders' policy or it's potential.

If it were up to me he wouldn’t even be allowed to run and the nomination would be taken from him at the convention

Holy fuck.

Hypocrite.

[San Lumen]

If it were up to me he wouldn’t even be allowed to run and the nomination would be taken from him at the convention

Holy fuck.

Forgive me for wanting to win future elections and not have a socialist non democrat hijack the party and set us back years

[Thermodolia]

I didn’t know that you were a Trump supporter


Says the neoliberal who thinks the poors and working class is icky

I’ll just say I told you so when he loses and wish everyone good luck in the new America where Republicans win consistently with less votes. I’d love to see Trump decline the nominationat the convention and throw it into chaos but I’ll never get that wish

So because you don’t like sanders you project your hate of him onto the rest of the nation? Makes perfect sense

[Albrenia]

Assuming Sanders will lose for the sake of argument, wouldn't tossing out his nomination out of hand put enough of his voters off to doom whoever is 'given' the nomination instead?

[Thermodolia]

The problem isn't the vote itself. The vote is completely understandable and perfectly fine. Well, within the usual levels of what politicians do at least. The issue is that this is the same sort of behavior that gets other non-Bernie candidates labeled as corrupt. It also undercuts his message of being opposed to the military-industrial complex.

Precisely. Hillary took a shitton of money from the big banks in 2016, and then voted against their interests repeatedly, Nonetheless, Sanders insisted that she was a tool of those same big banks, using the money they gave her as "proof" of undue influence.

Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. It's going to be hard for Bernie to claim that he and he alone in all of Washington can take a corporation's money and stay pure, while everybody else is corrupt as the day is long — and given his past position on this sort of thing, that's going to be the position he will have to take.

"Trust me and me alone. Everybody else is just a crooked politician!"

Do you really think that's going to fly?

Worked for Trump. Don’t know why it wouldn’t work for a Democrat

[Saiwania]

A socialist isn’t winning a national election.

Bernie Sanders is a social liberal from what I can tell. He wants the US to be more like Denmark as one example. That country has a perfectly capitalist economy, only much higher taxes and social safety nets, and perhaps much more labor rights for workers, where every citizen is part of a trade union by default and where wages are set via collective bargaining between employer and employee organizations vying against each other; instead of there being any hard minimum wage.

Maybe the Boomer generation has McCarthyist fears but the rest of the country seems to be sick of the broken system and are more open to major changes.

[True Refuge]

Holy fuck.

Forgive me for wanting to win future elections and not have a socialist non democrat hijack the party and set us back years

Nah. It’s moral bankruptcy regardless.You have all these legalist-flavoured beliefs in the rule of law yet you just admitted to “rules for thee not for me”.

You’ve made slips before but this is definitely the most blatant.

[San Lumen]

I’ll just say I told you so when he loses and wish everyone good luck in the new America where Republicans win consistently with less votes. I’d love to see Trump decline the nominationat the convention and throw it into chaos but I’ll never get that wish

So because you don’t like sanders you project your hate of him onto the rest of the nation? Makes perfect sense

30 percent of the delegates shouldn’t automatically give you the nomination but there is no winning here. We are poised to blow the election and I’ll just say I told you so in November. If I could preside over the electoral college certification in Congress I’d tear up the ballots if Trump got re-elected

[Thermodolia]

Holy fuck.

Forgive me for wanting to win future elections and not have a socialist non democrat hijack the party and set us back years

Pray tell how workers not getting fucked over is “setting us back years”? I mean unless your a neoliberal who hates poor people, workers rights, and someone who’s openly said that they’d fire striking workers this would be a great thing.

[Thermodolia]

Assuming Sanders will lose for the sake of argument, wouldn't tossing out his nomination out of hand put enough of his voters off to doom whoever is 'given' the nomination instead?

Oh most definitely. And give the republicans ammo to claim that the democrats want to rig the election.

[True Refuge]

Forgive me for wanting to win future elections and not have a socialist non democrat hijack the party and set us back years

Pray tell how workers not getting fucked over is “setting us back years”? I mean unless your a neoliberal who hates poor people, workers rights, and someone who’s openly said that they’d fire striking workers this would be a great thing.

This kind of talk from him is tantamount to being a class traitor. Power over progress I guess.

[San Lumen]

Assuming Sanders will lose for the sake of argument, wouldn't tossing out his nomination out of hand put enough of his voters off to doom whoever is 'given' the nomination instead?

Oh most definitely. And give the republicans ammo to claim that the democrats want to rig the election.

Trump should have the nomination taken from him too. The delegates should turn on him and refuse to nominate him and revolt on the convention floor but sadly that will never happen

[Bombadil]

Meanwhile both Sanders and Warren are being sued for the princely sum of $265M by.. none other than our old favourite George Zimmerman, given they tweeted on what would have been Trayvon Martin's birthday.. actual tweets don't even mention Zimmerman but, hey, hurt his feelings.

Link

[Saiwania]

Trump should have the nomination taken from him too. The delegates should turn on him and refuse to nominate him and revolt on the convention floor but sadly that will never happen

Because so far as Republicans are concerned, Trump has done a great job. Not perfect, but good for what he delivered in terms of economy, trade, and border security.

[Thermodolia]

A socialist isn’t winning a national election.

Bernie Sanders is a social liberal from what I can tell. He wants the US to be more like Denmark as one example. That country has a perfectly capitalist economy, only much higher taxes and social safety nets, and perhaps much more labor rights for workers, where every citizen is part of a trade union by default and where wages are set via collective bargaining between employer and employee organizations vying against each other; instead of there being any hard minimum wage.

Maybe the Boomer generation has McCarthyist fears but the rest of the country seems to be sick of the broken system and are more open to major changes.

Ya know crushing the guy who’s trying to fix shit would end up backfiring big time as it would not only make said guy a martyr for the cause but it would also cause a large chunk of supporters to believe that more extreme measures are necessary.

So I guess if you’re an accelerationist then sanders needs to be booted out at the convention in order to jumpstart the impending revolution