2020 US General Election Thread IV: The Battle Begins

[Duvniask]

I love how right wingers truly believe the ability to own the deadliest firearms available is an intrinsic human right but healthcare that won't bankrupt average people and government support for those in need aren't in the same mind.

I put everything in terms of positive vs negative obligations on the government in how I view human rights. The government has no positive obligation to provide you with healthcare, but it also can't prevent you from getting healthcare if you can afford it. Likewise, the government has no positive obligation to give you a gun, but it shouldn't prevent you from getting a gun if you can afford it.

No, you are just being highly selective, and for no good reason. Any property you hold title to is in the form of positive obligations upon society to enforce and uphold your property rights. Same goes for any contracts you enter into with others. Contracts may well be broken, property rights may not be upheld; in any of these cases it becomes very clear that these are positive rights that cannot exist independently of society providing them to people.

[Serksis Federation]

I think that's on the liberals though. Funnily enough when you want to remove what people see as an inviolable right, they get angry about it.

I love how right wingers truly believe the ability to own the deadliest firearms available is an intrinsic human right but healthcare that won't bankrupt average people and government support for those in need aren't in the same mind.

I'm not pro-life but consider;

Left wingers think its an intrinsic human right to abort a fetus they made through neglectful planning or whatever, but having a [bold] modern [/bold] weapon on par with those in the hands of criminals that might attack them.

[Maraculand]

Think of it this way, defending yourself should be a right. Providing services (healthcare or otherwise) for another person? Not necessarily.

No one is arguing against being able to defend oneself. Hell, most people in the US aren't even asking for a zero-tolerance ban on firearms.

Agreed. Point I was making is that a comparison between gun rights and health care is a bit silly.

[Jerzylvania]

It's a parody song based on Babylon is Burning. If you had the mindfulness to have read it you'd know that by now.

BTW, not surprised your so into this whole shoved up the ass analogy, lol. It sounds like a place you birth most of your shit ideas.

I'm glad at least one other person knows that song

It's a rare cut from The Ruts, 1979 vintage. I found it on a new wave sampler album I'd purchased back in the day. A very lively number about a very deadly place.

[The Sherpa Empire]

No one is arguing against being able to defend oneself. Hell, most people in the US aren't even asking for a zero-tolerance ban on firearms.

Why don't we provide free healthcare, but it's just old ladies giving you chamomile tea and chicken soup?

TBF, I wouldn't mind a government program giving everyone chamomile tea and chicken soup.

I mean, I'd like to have actual medical care too, but if we can have both...

[Gormwood]

I love how right wingers truly believe the ability to own the deadliest firearms available is an intrinsic human right but healthcare that won't bankrupt average people and government support for those in need aren't in the same mind.

Call me when the people who oppose free health care start asking the government to buy guns for them.

Heckuva wicker man burning there. Guns aren't mandatory compared to say, emergency surgery for a traumatic injury (like hey, a gunshot!) or intensive care because someone breathed coronavirus on you. It's an inherent Got Mine Fuck You mentality that the people who want unrestricted access to firearms oppose people getting vital healthcare if they can't afford them for whatever reason or get government assistance if life took a dump on them.

[Gormwood]

I love how right wingers truly believe the ability to own the deadliest firearms available is an intrinsic human right but healthcare that won't bankrupt average people and government support for those in need aren't in the same mind.

I'm not pro-life but consider;

Left wingers think its an intrinsic human right to abort a fetus they made through neglectful planning or whatever, but having a [bold] modern [/bold] weapon on par with those in the hands of criminals that might attack them.

Today I learned rape, incest, severe genetic defects and medical inability to safely carry to term are all Neglectful Planning. Todd Akin, is that you?

[Washington Resistance Army]

1. not insane

That's a matter of perspective really, isn't it?

2. dignified

Doesn't matter at all.

3. competent

Actually the last thing you want an oligarch to be.

4. respects constitution

I'm assuming this is a joke because it's hilariously false upon even a cursory glance of Bloombergs record.

5. self made

As if that means anything? Billionaire jackasses are billionaires jackasses all the same.

6. not overbearing

See point 4 lol

7. not a pathological liar

This has already been disproven in this very thread.

8. not enamored with dictators

You might have missed that he's very buddy-buddy with the people who killed Khassogi.

9. respects women

This one has also been disproven lol

[Telconi]

Call me when the people who oppose free health care start asking the government to buy guns for them.

Heckuva wicker man burning there. Guns aren't mandatory compared to say, emergency surgery for a traumatic injury (like hey, a gunshot!) or intensive care because someone breathed coronavirus on you. It's an inherent Got Mine Fuck You mentality that the people who want unrestricted access to firearms oppose people getting vital healthcare if they can't afford them for whatever reason or get government assistance if life took a dump on them.

Like how it's "Got mine fuck you" for all those people who want the government to provide chemotherapy free of charge but then cry when anyone wants a state funded machine gun.

[Serksis Federation]

I'm not pro-life but consider;

Left wingers think its an intrinsic human right to abort a fetus they made through neglectful planning or whatever, but having a [bold] modern [/bold] weapon on par with those in the hands of criminals that might attack them.

Todsy I learned rape, incest, severe genetic defects and medical inability to safely carry to term are all Neglectful Planning. Todd Akin, is that you?

"Neglectful planning OR whatever" Whatever being any other situations or reasons that cause abortion to be on the parent(s) mind.

Everything you just mentioned has unfortunately been going on since early civilization without abortion, so humanity would be fine without it.

[Jerzylvania]

1. not insane

That's a matter of perspective really, isn't it?

2. dignified

Doesn't matter at all.

3. competent

Actually the last thing you want an oligarch to be.

4. respects constitution

I'm assuming this is a joke because it's hilariously false upon even a cursory glance of Bloombergs record.

5. self made

As if that means anything? Billionaire jackasses are billionaires jackasses all the same.

6. not overbearing

See point 4 lol

7. not a pathological liar

This has already been disproven in this very thread.

8. not enamored with dictators

You might have missed that he's very buddy-buddy with the people who killed Khassogi.

9. respects women

This one has also been disproven lol

Thanks for putting forth those alternative "facts". Lists like this are always so much fun.

[Diopolis]

I put everything in terms of positive vs negative obligations on the government in how I view human rights. The government has no positive obligation to provide you with healthcare, but it also can't prevent you from getting healthcare if you can afford it. Likewise, the government has no positive obligation to give you a gun, but it shouldn't prevent you from getting a gun if you can afford it.

No, you are just being highly selective, and for no good reason. Any property you hold title to is in the form of positive obligations upon society to enforce and uphold your property rights. Same goes for any contracts you enter into with others. Contracts may well be broken, property rights may not be upheld; in any of these cases it becomes very clear that these are positive rights that cannot exist independently of society providing them to people.

Actually property rights are the easiest common good to put enforcement in the hands of the individual on, albeit at the cost of other common goods.

[The Sherpa Empire]

Heckuva wicker man burning there. Guns aren't mandatory compared to say, emergency surgery for a traumatic injury (like hey, a gunshot!) or intensive care because someone breathed coronavirus on you. It's an inherent Got Mine Fuck You mentality that the people who want unrestricted access to firearms oppose people getting vital healthcare if they can't afford them for whatever reason or get government assistance if life took a dump on them.

Like how it's "Got mine fuck you" for all those people who want the government to provide chemotherapy free of charge but then cry when anyone wants a state funded machine gun.

Nobody needs a machine gun in the same way that a cancer patient needs chemotherapy.

If you support a militia system where the public schools educate everyone about guns and issue a firearm to everyone upon graduation, it's not something I advocate personally, but I don't think the suggestion is inherently stupid.

But to pretend that people need guns in the same way they need medical care is just stupid.

[Telconi]

Like how it's "Got mine fuck you" for all those people who want the government to provide chemotherapy free of charge but then cry when anyone wants a state funded machine gun.

Nobody needs a machine gun in the same way that a cancer patient needs chemotherapy.

If you support a militia system where the public schools educate everyone about guns and issue a firearm to everyone upon graduation, it's not something I advocate personally, but I don't think the suggestion is inherently stupid.

But to pretend that people need guns in the same way they need medical care is just stupid.

I've never chemoed a boar to death, seems like a clunky ass way of doing it.

[Albrenia]

From what little I've seen and read about Bloomberg makes him look like basically a wealthier, more intelligent and less overtly obnoxious version of Trump.

I'd prefer him over Trump in the same way I'd prefer a cyanide pill forced upon me to be mint flavoured rather than urine flavoured. Slightly less unpleasant bad thing, and all.

[Gormwood]

Todsy I learned rape, incest, severe genetic defects and medical inability to safely carry to term are all Neglectful Planning. Todd Akin, is that you?

"Neglectful planning OR whatever" Whatever being any other situations or reasons that cause abortion to be on the parent(s) mind.

Everything you just mentioned has unfortunately been going on since early civilization without abortion, so humanity would be fine without it.

Pffft. You appealed to emotion with "neglectful planning" to imply abortion is overwhelmingly used as convenient birth control. Just like how that druggie kiddy rapist blob Rush Limbaugh called Sandra Fluke a slut (and got a Medal of Freedom from Trump for it) when she advocated insurance coverage for birth control because he assumed she wanted to go on a sex spree without consequences when in truth she was vouching on behalf of a friend who suffered ovarian cyst- which birth control pills happen to prevent as well.

[Gormwood]

Like how it's "Got mine fuck you" for all those people who want the government to provide chemotherapy free of charge but then cry when anyone wants a state funded machine gun.

Nobody needs a machine gun in the same way that a cancer patient needs chemotherapy.

If you support a militia system where the public schools educate everyone about guns and issue a firearm to everyone upon graduation, it's not something I advocate personally, but I don't think the suggestion is inherently stupid.

But to pretend that people need guns in the same way they need medical care is just stupid.

Jesus Fucking Christ on a Segway, his flippant quarter-assed "rebuttal" was the very manifestation of the Billy Madison quote.

[The Sherpa Empire]

Nobody needs a machine gun in the same way that a cancer patient needs chemotherapy.

If you support a militia system where the public schools educate everyone about guns and issue a firearm to everyone upon graduation, it's not something I advocate personally, but I don't think the suggestion is inherently stupid.

But to pretend that people need guns in the same way they need medical care is just stupid.

I've never chemoed a boar to death, seems like a clunky ass way of doing it.

You have a lot more control over whether you need/want to kill a boar than whether you get cancer.

[Telconi]

I've never chemoed a boar to death, seems like a clunky ass way of doing it.

You have a lot more control over whether you need/want to kill a boar than whether you get cancer.

Not really.

[Diopolis]

I've never chemoed a boar to death, seems like a clunky ass way of doing it.

You have a lot more control over whether you need/want to kill a boar than whether you get cancer.

Fuck you for living in a rural area where feral hogs are a legitimate problem is quite a bit more blatant than the general Democrat platform, but representative of the tendency.

[Duvniask]

No, you are just being highly selective, and for no good reason. Any property you hold title to is in the form of positive obligations upon society to enforce and uphold your property rights. Same goes for any contracts you enter into with others. Contracts may well be broken, property rights may not be upheld; in any of these cases it becomes very clear that these are positive rights that cannot exist independently of society providing them to people.

Actually property rights are the easiest common good to put enforcement in the hands of the individual on, albeit at the cost of other common goods.

Easiest? I wouldn't be so sure.

When a gang of thieves robs you, I don't think you'll be taking them on yourself, unless you're pretending to be an action hero or something. Without its positive dimension, "property" is just whatever you can hold on to personally, hoping there isn't someone bigger and meaner than you who wants it.

[The Emerald Legion]

Like how it's "Got mine fuck you" for all those people who want the government to provide chemotherapy free of charge but then cry when anyone wants a state funded machine gun.

Nobody needs a machine gun in the same way that a cancer patient needs chemotherapy.

If you support a militia system where the public schools educate everyone about guns and issue a firearm to everyone upon graduation, it's not something I advocate personally, but I don't think the suggestion is inherently stupid.

But to pretend that people need guns in the same way they need medical care is just stupid.

You don't need medical care if you stay healthy. Just like you don't need guns as long as you stay safe.

[Necroghastia]

You have a lot more control over whether you need/want to kill a boar than whether you get cancer.

Not really.

Yeah you can't step outside for 3-5 minutes without getting rushed by 30-50 feral hogs. Everyone knows that.

[Diopolis]

Actually property rights are the easiest common good to put enforcement in the hands of the individual on, albeit at the cost of other common goods.

Easiest? I wouldn't be so sure.

When a gang of thieves robs you, I don't think you'll be taking them on yourself, unless you're pretending to be an action hero or something. Without positive dimensions "property" is just whatever you can hold on to personally, hoping there isn't someone bigger and meaner than you who wants it.

It happens on a regular basis though that thieves get shot.

[Albrenia]

You have a lot more control over whether you need/want to kill a boar than whether you get cancer.

Fuck you for living in a rural area where feral hogs are a legitimate problem is quite a bit more blatant than the general Democrat platform, but representative of the tendency.

Does one use a 'machine gun' to kill feral hogs, generally? I would have thought that'd more be a job for a hunting rifle of some kind, but again my knowledge of individual guns and their application is rather slim.