2020 US General Election Thread IV: The Battle Begins

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Wait, the Buttigieg fellah is gay?

Huh, I didn't know that. I wonder if that would hurt or help him politically, what with the political climate as it is.

I think there is more residual homophobia in America than we'd like to believe. Mainstream America has accepted marriage equality and rejected the Bible thumping sort of homophobia, but there are lots of people who might attend same-sex wedding while still being reluctant to accept a gay President, because they retain a deeply instilled bias about gay men being weaker than straight men and the fear that a gay President wouldn't be well respected by other world leaders.

[San Lumen]

Wait, the Buttigieg fellah is gay?

Huh, I didn't know that. I wonder if that would hurt or help him politically, what with the political climate as it is.

I think there is more residual homophobia in America than we'd like to believe. Mainstream America has accepted marriage equality and rejected the Bible thumping sort of homophobia, but there are lots of people who might attend same-sex wedding while still being reluctant to accept a gay President, because they retain a deeply instilled bias about gay men being weaker than straight men and the fear that a gay President wouldn't be well respected by other world leaders.

The governor of Colorado Jared Polis is openly gay and has a partner and children . Senator Tammy Baldwin of Wisconsin is gay. It might be an issue in some places but I don’t think a large majority wouldn’t vote for a gay president. Several countries have elected openly gay leaders, Iceland, Luxembourg and Serbia for starters

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I think there is more residual homophobia in America than we'd like to believe. Mainstream America has accepted marriage equality and rejected the Bible thumping sort of homophobia, but there are lots of people who might attend same-sex wedding while still being reluctant to accept a gay President, because they retain a deeply instilled bias about gay men being weaker than straight men and the fear that a gay President wouldn't be well respected by other world leaders.

The governor of Colorado Jared Polis is openly gay and has a partner and children . Senator Tammy Baldwin of Wisconsin is gay. It might be an issue in some places but I don’t think a large majority wouldn’t vote for a gay president. Several countries have elected openly gay leaders, Iceland, Luxembourg and Serbia for starters

It doesn't come down to the vast majority, it comes down to a few thousand people in Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania.

[San Lumen]

The governor of Colorado Jared Polis is openly gay and has a partner and children . Senator Tammy Baldwin of Wisconsin is gay. It might be an issue in some places but I don’t think a large majority wouldn’t vote for a gay president. Several countries have elected openly gay leaders, Iceland, Luxembourg and Serbia for starters

It doesn't come down to the vast majority, it comes down to a few thousand people in Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania.

Baldwin got 55 percent of the vote in 2018

[United States of Devonta]

It doesn't come down to the vast majority, it comes down to a few thousand people in Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania.

Baldwin got 55 percent of the vote in 2018

And more total votes then DT in Wisconsin.

[Ifreann]

It doesn't come down to the vast majority, it comes down to a few thousand people in Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania.

Baldwin got 55 percent of the vote in 2018

Getting more votes doesn't matter.

[San Lumen]

Baldwin got 55 percent of the vote in 2018

Getting more votes doesn't matter.

Why not? The question was if a openly gay person could win the Midwest and the answer is clearly yes

[Ifreann]

Getting more votes doesn't matter.

Why not? The question was if a openly gay person could win the Midwest and the answer is clearly yes

Because electoral college. Remember 2016?

[San Lumen]

Why not? The question was if a openly gay person could win the Midwest and the answer is clearly yes

Because electoral college. Remember 2016?

I know but if we win Wisconsin, Pennsylvania and Michigan, Trump loses

[Washington Resistance Army]

Getting more votes doesn't matter.

Why not? The question was if a openly gay person could win the Midwest and the answer is clearly yes

It's also worth noting society tends to have a different view on gay men compared to gay women.

[Zurkerx]

Damn, that is actually is a good idea to use his faith, although wouldn't the "gay" part still be tough for them to swallow? I mean, older African Americans and Hispanics tend not to embrace that well. That would be my only concern though I'm surprised he hasn't done this strategy yet. The collapse of Biden and Klobuchar would too though Biden's fall would help Sanders as well; Warren dropping out early would too. Needless to say, it'll be an interesting race and we'll see how the Candidates handle themselves tonight on the debate stage.

Interestingly enough, I heard an African-American commentator on MSNBC (whose name I can't recall) suggest that African-Americans are less concerned about Pete Buttigieg's sexual orientation on the basis of their own feelings about being LGBTQ (and all that implies) than they are about White America's feelings on the matter. He asserted that they want to see Trump beaten (largely because of his acceptance of White Supremacist activism as "O.K."), which has led them into making the "electability" argument foremost in their minds. Thus, if they worry that a gay man can't be elected President, they won't vote for one.

This explains their support for Joe Biden, and it might explain part of their reluctance to support either Sanders or Warren. Consequently, if Buttigieg is able to win big among white voters in spite of being gay, that might well make it possible for African-American Democrats to support him as well.

This fits the way black voters responded to Obama. Before he beat Hillary in Iowa (back in 2008), Obama enjoyed very little support with African-American Democrats. Then, too, Hillary (like Biden) saw South Carolina as her "firewall", largely thanks to her massive support among black voters. But after Obama won in Iowa and did well in New Hampshire (a strong second-place finish behind Clinton), those same black voters flipped over and very quickly came to embrace Obama as a viable candidate.

That is true: Obama did pull off a victory there. Buttigieg should come in second in NH though it'll depend how close he can keep up with Sanders. The thing is, he struggled badly answering racial questions in last night's debate and if he has the same performance like that in SC, he's screwed. that's what I think can hurt him badly unless he can be "forgiven" for what he has done as you have mentioned. But if they don't care about him being gay, then that's a plus for him.

Yang is probably my preferred candidate at this point after his answer about human value - it was an important message, a moving one, a neglected one, and a winning one.
Great night for Klobuchar. She would be a very very strong running mate for Sanders.

I'm not sure if Sanders would take a moderate on his campaign, especially since I'm not sure how his base would react although I do agree, she would be a wise choice for VP and she continues to demonstrate that.

Klobuchar sounds like a Pokemon in my head... now I can't get Pokemon Trainer Sanders out of my head... Damnit.

I was wondering if this was the moment that Klobuchar hit a bunch of running mate short lists.

Great night for Klobuchar. She would be a very very strong running mate for Sanders.

she would be a great running mate for any Democrat

Whoah, Klobuchar as a good running mate? No way. Who could've seen this coming:

...you're quoting a post that attempts to claim that I'm a "Trump Lover" for bashing Bolton. I'd appreciate a disclaimer that it's total and fucking bullshit. If I was a "Trump Lover" I'd be rooting for Harris or Biden to win the primary, since Trump will eat them for lunch in the general election. Instead I'm pointing out a team that can actually beat Trump: Sanders-Klobuchar. It'd make no sense for me to do that as a Trump Lover.

Oh yeah. Everyone with their partisan blinders off. Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Wisconsin are going to be Swing States. Klobuchar appeals to those states. It's really just that simple. But please, continue to ignore what I'm saying, it's not like I constantly get these predictions right... oh wai-

As for your inquiry, CTOAN, if the candidates were paying any reasonable amount of attention, they really should've had her on their short lists. This would be a mere confirmation, rather than an a-ha moment. Only way she can fuck it up, is have a terrible Super Tuesday, (where she doesn't make top four in the Rust Belt States) or if she stays in the race past Super Tuesday, (provided that she's not in the top three for all of the Super Tuesday states,) hence diluting the vote and being presented as a Super Delegate Slut. Again, she hasn't done this yet, since Super Tuesday hasn't yet occurred, so no, I'm not calling her a slut.

It's also something I been saying for months too, along with a few others. She's a great choice for anyone since she won in Trump districts in Minnesota with ease. The eventual nominee would be foolish not to have her on the ticket.

[San Lumen]

Interestingly enough, I heard an African-American commentator on MSNBC (whose name I can't recall) suggest that African-Americans are less concerned about Pete Buttigieg's sexual orientation on the basis of their own feelings about being LGBTQ (and all that implies) than they are about White America's feelings on the matter. He asserted that they want to see Trump beaten (largely because of his acceptance of White Supremacist activism as "O.K."), which has led them into making the "electability" argument foremost in their minds. Thus, if they worry that a gay man can't be elected President, they won't vote for one.

This explains their support for Joe Biden, and it might explain part of their reluctance to support either Sanders or Warren. Consequently, if Buttigieg is able to win big among white voters in spite of being gay, that might well make it possible for African-American Democrats to support him as well.

This fits the way black voters responded to Obama. Before he beat Hillary in Iowa (back in 2008), Obama enjoyed very little support with African-American Democrats. Then, too, Hillary (like Biden) saw South Carolina as her "firewall", largely thanks to her massive support among black voters. But after Obama won in Iowa and did well in New Hampshire (a strong second-place finish behind Clinton), those same black voters flipped over and very quickly came to embrace Obama as a viable candidate.

That is true: Obama did pull off a victory there. Buttigieg should come in second in NH though it'll depend how close he can keep up with Sanders. The thing is, he struggled badly answering racial questions in last night's debate and if he has the same performance like that in SC, he's screwed. that's what I think can hurt him badly unless he can be "forgiven" for what he has done as you have mentioned. But if they don't care about him being gay, then that's a plus for him.

Yang is probably my preferred candidate at this point after his answer about human value - it was an important message, a moving one, a neglected one, and a winning one.
Great night for Klobuchar. She would be a very very strong running mate for Sanders.

I'm not sure if Sanders would take a moderate on his campaign, especially since I'm not sure how his base would react although I do agree, she would be a wise choice for VP and she continues to demonstrate that.

Whoah, Klobuchar as a good running mate? No way. Who could've seen this coming:



Oh yeah. Everyone with their partisan blinders off. Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Wisconsin are going to be Swing States. Klobuchar appeals to those states. It's really just that simple. But please, continue to ignore what I'm saying, it's not like I constantly get these predictions right... oh wai-

As for your inquiry, CTOAN, if the candidates were paying any reasonable amount of attention, they really should've had her on their short lists. This would be a mere confirmation, rather than an a-ha moment. Only way she can fuck it up, is have a terrible Super Tuesday, (where she doesn't make top four in the Rust Belt States) or if she stays in the race past Super Tuesday, (provided that she's not in the top three for all of the Super Tuesday states,) hence diluting the vote and being presented as a Super Delegate Slut. Again, she hasn't done this yet, since Super Tuesday hasn't yet occurred, so no, I'm not calling her a slut.

It's also something I been saying for months too, along with a few others. She's a great choice for anyone since she won in Trump districts in Minnesota with ease. The eventual nominee would be foolish not to have her on the ticket.

I think barring a miracle Sanders will get the nomination. Picking Klobuchar would be a wise choice but he’s probably going to pick someone as radical as him

[Alien Space Bats]

I agree on all points. Buttigieg is a smart player if he planned all along to get the minor candidates' second choice votes. And targeted the areas where they were most likely to fail the first expression.

Everybody did that; it's part of the way the caucus game is played. I heard interviews with Klobuchar staffers who said that, whenever they talked to a voter and were told that voter was planning on caucusing for someone else, they'd make a pitch for Amy to be that voter's second choice.

[Zurkerx]

Sanders continues to lead but Buttigieg is second. Sanders is benefiting from Warren's fall while Buttigieg is benefiting from Biden's fall. The breakdown:

Sanders 28%
Buttigieg 21%
Biden 11%
Warren 9%
Gabbard 6%
Klobuchar 5%
Steyer 3%
Yang 3%

Likely Sanders will win but his margin of victory might be smaller.

[San Lumen]

Sanders continues to lead but Buttigieg is second. Sanders is benefiting from Warren's fall while Buttigieg is benefiting from Biden's fall. The breakdown:

Sanders 28%
Buttigieg 21%
Biden 11%
Warren 9%
Gabbard 6%
Klobuchar 5%
Steyer 3%
Yang 3%

Likely Sanders will win but his margin of victory might be smaller.

I hope Buttigieg closes the gap. Its not out of the realm of possibility. if he wins New Hampshire he will be serious contender

[Alien Space Bats]

States could implement wealth taxes.

Indeed, they already do.

They're called property taxes (a limited form of wealth tax), and they're used extensively to finance local government and schools.

Unfortunately everyone needs that kind of property (or else they're homeless) so it lacks the best feature of a true wealth tax: progressivity.

Well, no; those taxes are still progressive. Working-class homes have a lower property value than homes owned by the rich and very rich.

Or are you talking about progressivity in the technical sense, wherein we charge a higher rate as wealth levels increase? Because that kind of tax is extremely dangerous, from an economic POV.

[Cisairse]

This was a good debate.

They are actively trying.



Considering he "won" Iowa and pretty much everybody knows he's gay, I'd say it isn't hurting him.



Probably because there is mountains filled with cruise ships filled with evidence that the DNC rigged the primary against Sanders in 2016. Were you not watching the news in the run-up to the election? This was probably the biggest Clinton scandal in terms of overall effect on the election.



If Pete wins, we likely get a brokered convention.



You are verifiably wrong about Pete being more electable than Bernie.
Also, NH is also Liz's backyard.

Show the receipts about their being a conspiracy in 2016. No one has yet provided this nor can they prove it for this cycle

https://wikileaks.org/clinton-emails/

[Ifreann]

Sanders continues to lead but Buttigieg is second. Sanders is benefiting from Warren's fall while Buttigieg is benefiting from Biden's fall. The breakdown:

Sanders 28%
Buttigieg 21%
Biden 11%
Warren 9%
Gabbard 6%
Klobuchar 5%
Steyer 3%
Yang 3%

Likely Sanders will win but his margin of victory might be smaller.

I hope Buttigieg closes the gap. Its not out of the realm of possibility. if he wins New Hampshire he will be serious contender

It's time to unite behind the front-runner.

[San Lumen]

This was a good debate.

Show the receipts about their being a conspiracy in 2016. No one has yet provided this nor can they prove it for this cycle

https://wikileaks.org/clinton-emails/

a few rouge staffers does not equal conspiracy.

I hope Buttigieg closes the gap. Its not out of the realm of possibility. if he wins New Hampshire he will be serious contender

It's time to unite behind the front-runner.

And who is that?

[Ifreann]

This was a good debate.



https://wikileaks.org/clinton-emails/

a few rouge staffers does not equal conspiracy.

It's time to unite behind the front-runner.

And who is that?

You tell me.

Sanders continues to lead but Buttigieg is second. Sanders is benefiting from Warren's fall while Buttigieg is benefiting from Biden's fall. The breakdown:

Sanders 28%
Buttigieg 21%
Biden 11%
Warren 9%
Gabbard 6%
Klobuchar 5%
Steyer 3%
Yang 3%

Likely Sanders will win but his margin of victory might be smaller.

[San Lumen]

a few rouge staffers does not equal conspiracy.


And who is that?

You tell me.

Sanders continues to lead but Buttigieg is second. Sanders is benefiting from Warren's fall while Buttigieg is benefiting from Biden's fall. The breakdown:

Sanders 28%
Buttigieg 21%
Biden 11%
Warren 9%
Gabbard 6%
Klobuchar 5%
Steyer 3%
Yang 3%

Likely Sanders will win but his margin of victory might be smaller.

Enjoy losing the general

[Ifreann]

You tell me.

Enjoy losing the general

Ah yes, your belief that Boomers will turn out in force against Sanders, just like they did when Republicans called Obama a socialist.

[Bienenhalde]

Enjoy losing the general

Ah yes, your belief that Boomers will turn out in force against Sanders, just like they did when Republicans called Obama a socialist.

Sanders is far to the left of Obama. They are not comparable at all.

[Ifreann]

Ah yes, your belief that Boomers will turn out in force against Sanders, just like they did when Republicans called Obama a socialist.

Sanders is far to the left of Obama. They are not comparable at all.

That's their secret, Cap, Republicans call everything they don't like socialism

[Galloism]

Or are you talking about progressivity in the technical sense, wherein we charge a higher rate as wealth levels increase? Because that kind of tax is extremely dangerous, from an economic POV.

Ok, so please consider me ignorant on economics (unironically, it's the only class I ever got a C in), but why is this the case?